I'm looking for opinions on when to get a BO.  Is before GRS or at the time of GRS recommended by those of you who have had GRS or BO.  As i've mentioned to another member I would like to get one as soon as possible to get rid of some of the nasty male parts.

Steph

Myself, I can't think of a single good reason to do it before SRS assuming you have no medical necessity of doing so.  Hell, they don't even give ya a discount for it when you have SRS.

As long as the spiro does the job of cutting the testosterone down to acceptable levels in a healthy body, I can't think of a single good reason to do it that is worth the time and money.

If there is a health issue, thats one thing, thats the only reason mine was done.  If you had asked me prior to the need for it, I'd have told you hell no!  not enough bang for the buck in it to justify doing it.

makes tucking a simplistic affair, makes you easier around pets and kids that are prone to lap jumping and allows a heck of a tight leg cross are all the good things I can think of for a healthy individual.

Terri

If you have a surgeon in mind, go with his recommendation.  An orchi done wrong can make his job more difficult and also leave the results less  pleasing.

3 different surgeons recommended doing the BO as soon as possible, regardless of the SRS date.  so my spouse went ahead and did it 2 years ago.

we used toby meltzer in arizona. his staff is really wonderful.

the surgeons said that the sooner you stop that source of testosterone, the better the facial reconstruction work would go.  my spouse is 32, and the surgeons wanted to avoid "hardening" of the male facial features. also, it helps to reduce hair loss, and allows you to take lower dosages of hormones, which was safer for the liver.

Yours would be covered by OHIP, wouldn't it Steph? So the financial side of it isn't an issue for you?

Dennis

Quote from: Stephanie Craxford on July 31, 2005, 10:15:25 PM
I'm looking for opinions on when to get a BO.  Is before GRS or at the time of GRS recommended by those of you who have had GRS or BO.  As i've mentioned to another member I would like to get one as soon as possible to get rid of some of the nasty male parts.

Steph

I did that over two years ago.
Dr. Barham in Portland, Oregon does a very nice job at a reasonable price. He uses a single incision and it's all over in less than 45 minutes. I had a pre-srs consult with Marcie Bowers recently and she liked his method as it doesn't result in unnecessary scrotal tissue shrinkage. She said that I had plenty there for nice labia construction when I'm ready. Meanwhile, it was nice to get off the massive doses of spironolactone, and feminizing developement has been enhanced as a result. The little thingy atrophies quite a bit but I look very flat in the pubic area and theres no disgusting bulge from behind when I bend over in my hot shorts. PM me if you're interested and I'll dig up his address and all the particulars.

Hey there everyone,

Thanks for the advice,I will take it all in.  Unfortunately Dennis BO, is not covered by OHIP anymore, the same with GRS.  The Conservatives de-listed it the last year they were in power.  However, there is a case before the supreme courts right now where a transsexual is suing the provincial government, using the provicial human rights code, if it's successful then the re-listing of the surguries will follow shortly afterwards.  I have my fingers, and toes  crossed. 

Steph

Stephanie, I really don't think it would be worth the time and money let alone the pain that you will go through if you plan on have GRS soon, with in the next few years. I had one done, but thought I was not going to have GRS so I didn't want to take spiro for the rest of my life. After a about a year and half wanted GRS so the BO was wasted.
Sheila








r

Yes Sheila, this is also my view.  a "BO" would be more appropriate for one who was not considering full surgery, or is fairly certain surgery would not occure for many years into the future.

If surgery is to be accomplished within a couple or few years, it saves little if anything in the way of cosmetic deteriation and can cause more problems then it can address. Actually if spiro or other blockers are doing their job, it improves development and retardation of masculine effects so little as to be negligable in my opinion.  Also consider that for the true GID, it accomplishes little or nothing in the gender sense of resolving any issues, at least that was the case for me,  I had thought it may improve my feelings about this or that, but I was wrong for it did not, for all the difference it made in my gender conflicts, it would have been wasted effort in my case to do it as a choice as it in no way addressed what is still there.  It should NOT be considered as a "Step" toward the gender goal unless one is prevented from taking estrogens and T blockers and will not have surgery.

I can just see all those who would run to get one thinking it would somehow make them more of a woman ......  CowPatties!

Terri

<Yes Sheila, this is also my view.  a "BO" would be more appropriate for one who was not considering full surgery, or is fairly certain surgery would not occure for many years into the future.>

You are joking, no?  I cannot think of one woman, that if she was deformed by external genitalia, that would not jump at the chance for a surgical correction, regardless of whether it corrected all of the problem presently, or not?  In other words, it's better than doing nothing. Many corrective surgeries are multi-stage? This situation would be no different.

You make it sound like cosmetic surgery.

QuoteYou are joking, no?  I cannot think of one woman, that if she was deformed by external genitalia, that would not jump at the chance for a surgical correction, regardless of whether it corrected all of the problem presently, or not?

No Thundra, not joking even a little.  Just my view and everyone on earth can think it stinks and It don't change that view a twit.  I do not view this as any kind of stages.  I'm not until I am and nothing in between has any meaning or difference to me, other then how much it will cost and how long that delays the final event.

I know for a fact now that even though I didn't have to pay for it, it didn't make any difference at all in how I view myself or my body.  For all the difference it made in my self image, it may as well have not been done, that is the cold hard fact of the matter in my own mind set, if your milage varies, slam it down full throttle and have at, after all, it might provide a few bragging points if nothing else.

The stages thing just doesn't compute with me, and I'm sorry about how anyone else feels about that, but there it is, it just didn't do anything worthwhile for me as far as changing any conceptions, all I see when I look down is the main problem, it kind of covers over anything else.

Joking?  the joke is still hanging.  OK, now you can say you know ONE woman.

Terri

The website for Dr. Barham is>> www.orclinic.com/docs/rbarham.html

If time to the table is short why spend the $$$$$ when it could be used for SRS?

On the other hand I can understand getting rid of offensive material in the quickest manner possible. 

Leigh

edited to add update in red

Effective Jan 1, 2006 Dr. Barham is retired

i just want to thank everyone who contributed to this thread with their advice, information, and help.  This just shows how great this site is, and what it's all about.

Base on your inputs, and my own reasearch, I've decided to keep the evil twins hanging around until my GRS, which will hopefully be scheduled in late fall 2006.  You all made logical arguments, and after weighing the pro's and con's it was easy to make up my mind.

My spiro is doing it's job as my testosterone levels are almost 0.  I've not experienced any side effects from my HRT regeme, so as many of you advised, why mess with it.  I'm hoping that GRS is 1 1/2 years away at most, so as Leigh's last post, supported by others, "why spend the $$$$ when it could be used for GRS.

Thanks again everyone,

Steph

<<I know for a fact now that even though I didn't have to pay for it, it didn't make any difference at all in how I view myself or my body.>>

Nor should it? It is simply a surgical correction of an obvious problem, no?  It would be no different than having a tooth pulled that was crowding the back of your mouth.  No one will ever see it.  Removing it makes no difference aesthetically, but having it removed removes a physical problem?

This is JMNSHO, but from my POV, if you are waiting for any kind of surgery to change your self-esteem, you will waiting a very long time. Your surgery should be viewed as a necessity, to correct a problem, not to make you into anything you are not at present.

After all, SRS will not make you a natal female.  Nothing can, and nothing ever will. You will never give birth or experience menstruation, two of the defining characteristics of being female.
In this regard, you are no different from many other women. You are experiencing the same regrets and angst as these other women.  Corrective surgery will not change that fact.  In this way, surgery is seperate from the process of transition, even as sex is different than gender.

I leave you with this thought: females are born, women are made.
If you want to be a woman, it is never too late then?  If you are willing to discard your ego and be accepted into that social role by other women.

So Speaketh Thundra.

"Has anyone seen my hammer? I'm feeling are warm and fuzzy now."

Hey there Thundra

QuoteNor should it? It is simply a surgical correction of an obvious problem, no?  It would be no different than having a tooth pulled that was crowding the back of your mouth.  No one will ever see it.  Removing it makes no difference aesthetically, but having it removed removes a physical problem?

You make a very valid point, I know that I'm a woman and I don't need the surgery to prove it.  Sometimes it seems that it's everyone else who needs me to have the surgery to prove it.  For example, the ministry of transport and the Ontario Medical Health Insurance Plan will not change the gender marker on any of my forms until I can produce a letter from  a surgeon that my gender has been changed, they have no problems changing my name, but not the gender.

Having said that, getting rid of those offending growths not only removes a physical problem but it would be done for my sanity, for my well being, for my heath, for my peace of mind, for me.

Take care

Steph

Your awfully proud of that little tap hammer Thundra, but if it manages to hit a nail on the head, let me know, I want to take a picture.  As it happens, I pretty much know what to expect surgery to accomplish for me and what it will not.  My problem is simple.  Having male sexual organs, functional or not, messes with my day, my nights also, but thats another matter.  SRS will cure that little problem quite nicely though I don't expect it to make me any more then I am in any other respect.

Point being, I am only functionally sane having to live with what I was born with in this regard and steadily losing ground in this battle, and it affects every thing in my life as well as my relationships.  There are whole range of these problems that will be solved to my own satisfaction by SRS, though I may still have a long way to go to solve them to other peoples.  and no, there are many other problems it won't even touch, but I will be able to address those other problems from the standpoint of being a much mentally and emotionally healthier person.

It's not about being a woman at all in many respects, it's about being comfortable with what I am, and if that resembles woman, rightly or wrongly, then so be it, but it happens that I solely identify with women and as one of them, which isn't possible to do in the complete sense without SRS, not my opinion, but the way the world I live in works.  Thats why orchie made no difference in my personal outlook, the problem was still there and absolutely no goal or feeling of gain was accomplished, other then to be medically able to continue to use estrogens at all, and  my problems in this regard won't be solved short of the real deal.  When that is done, the other problems will be much more managable.

And as far as being only a surgical correction of a problem.  I beg to differ, it is wrapped up in my total sense of who I am, so I would say it corrects a whole lot more then just genitals.  It will allow me the mental health and self perspective to be the person of my potential rather then the often confused, bitter and emotionally shattered person I generally am at present because of the genital conflict and the other problems that have developed as a result of this..

And answer me this Thundra? ...... if something doesn't cure a problem (don't know where you come up with asthetics, for which I don't give a damn) then why do anything about anything at all?

About females being born and women being made, I believe I myself made that point a lot more then 30 years ago and continue to do so into the present day, so whats new other then little tappy hammers?  I'm not looking for any all in one quick (poof) fix, I'm trying to put money together faster then others can slip it away from me and finish what was actually started more then half my lifetime ago, and as long as I keep being able to get up each day and walk, it's getting there, a lot of fine people are doing all they can for me in that regard.

Try telling me something useful and leave the tappy little toy hammer in the kiddy box where it belongs, we'll get along better.  me, I'm not the warm and fuzzy type, I been on point in the mine fields to long.  It takes very special people to find that side of me anymore.

Terri

<< Having said that, getting rid of those offending growths not only removes a physical problem but it would be done for my sanity, for my well being, for my heath, for my peace of mind, for me. >>

Right On. 

Quote from: hectic on August 01, 2005, 05:24:29 AM
3 different surgeons recommended doing the BO as soon as possible, regardless of the SRS date.  so my spouse went ahead and did it 2 years ago.

we used toby meltzer in arizona. his staff is really wonderful.

the surgeons said that the sooner you stop that source of testosterone, the better the facial reconstruction work would go.  my spouse is 32, and the surgeons wanted to avoid "hardening" of the male facial features. also, it helps to reduce hair loss, and allows you to take lower dosages of hormones, which was safer for the liver.

All i can say is DITTO..

QuoteI'll bet the procedure is painful afterwards.

I'd have to think that would depend on the individual and what their concept of pain is.  Personally, I found it to be more on the uncomfortable side rather then painful.  I was out of bed and dressed in my normal street cloths within minutes of waking up from the anethesia and being checked by a nurse and when my woman arrived to take me home I walked out to the car.  There was no indication anything had occurred other then I left heavy lifting alone for about a week before returning to work in my normal duties.

Since it was done through incisions in the lower abdomen rather then trough the scrotum sack, there was pulling of the sutures through the lower abdomen muscles and some movements such as bending over to tie shoe laces, or rising up after laying down, or getting up from low chairs could cause a little stress, but all in all, I have been worse off with stubbed toes.  No pain killers of any kind other then the daily dose of asprin I normally take regardless were ever wanted or necessary, and I am not into pain for any emotional relief or release, quite the contrary.  I enconter more then I want without looking for it.

If there is a medical need for it or if you think it will make an important mental difference, don't let thoughts of incapacitation or of pain even enter into it.  The pain is very minor to what one would likely go through in the real deal, or in the normal daily living of blue collar life.

As far as any mental relief in it, I can only say this from my own particular mind set.  Before it was done, I imagined it may benifit my outlook, but I had reservations about what the extent would be, afterwards, I imagined that since the heart had been cut from the "bad boy" I would be able to leave a lot of past actions behind me, thinking a lot of the guilt would go with the marbles.  It didn't take to long though to discover none of that actually took place though and after I got over the initial expectations.  LIfe simply returned to the same old grind.

Family and friends tell me I do seem to be less volital then before, but the potentual is still there, simply less predetermined.  realistically, now that it's past history, I see it as having accomplished nothing other then to reduce the medical risk of hormones to me, and for that reason alone it was worth it to me, but in a sense of making me more at ease with my own body, or in any way easing the gender conflict, it accomplished NOTHING.

Terri

<< Try telling me something useful and leave the tappy little toy hammer in the kiddy box where it belongs, we'll get along better.  me, I'm not the warm and fuzzy type, I been on point in the mine fields to long.  It takes very special people to find that side of me anymore. >>

Well, actually, it is a four foot long stainles steel mallet, that weighs a little less than a hundred pounds.  But, you have attitude, so why split hairs?

My point in this whole discussion has been, simply, that SRS or GCS, or whatever ain't a cure all for what ails you.  But, like many medical treatments, it probably ain't gonna hurt either?  Now, as I recall, the thread started going to where peeps were wondering whether BO was a necessary treatment or not?

My point was, that it is a treatment, just as SRS is a treatment, and it has it's place in the treatment regimen.  It ain't gonna cure you for what ails you, and neither will SRS.  There is no viable cure for what you were born with. So, what is wrong with taking what treatment you can at that moment, and then moving on?

After all, regardless of what treatment you seek, no one is gonna know except you, unless you broadcast it from every mountain top.  You still gotta live, pay the bills, and feed the cat.  Life goes on.  Getting SRS doesn't mean that you are suddenly going to get a better job, find a partner, or even have sex?  It just means that you had surgery.  No more, no less.  It may open up options that were not available before, but options are just that, possibilities.

As for why you should seek treatment that does not cure you?
Well, you have to ask yourself, am I better off now than I was before?  Not, am I happy now.  Nothing in life is that $%^&*&%$ easy?!

I think that most peeps would say that they would not want to walk a mile in your shoes, cause life is hard.  But, then, they would not want to walk in the shoes of someone without legs, or blind, or whatever.  Life is just really hard. For most everyone.
And, especially for women, but you knew that, right?

Everything is relative.  Someday you will look back at this and go, whatever. Today is not that day.  Today you take whatever rage you can muster and use it carry on.

You want something to inspire you?  How about this?
"Keep your eyes on the prize."  That was told to me by a member of the clergy many moons ago.  I remember it whenever the going gets tough. "Keep your eyes on the prize."  Don't let yourself get distracted. Don't let people get to you. Carry on.