Kind of echoing what a few others here have said. I don't think hormones had much if any effect on my orientation. I have always been bisexual but it was not until I came fully out to everyone who knows me that I was able to admit to myself and the world that I like men.

Pre transition I was predominately attracted to women and the few times I felt attracted to a man left me feeling conflicted. Now after more then six months of being out and full time I feel less inhibited. Admitting that I was trans helped me let go of so many stereotypes.

Now when I look at an attractive woman I admire her beauty but it's less of a sexual attraction and more akin to envy. I find myself looking at her and thinking "damn! I wish I had her body." But when I look at an attractive man I want to be with him emotionally and sexually.

Summing it up, I've always been attracted to men but lived in denial. Now that I don't have to hide my sexuality from myself and others I can be with whom ever I choose.   

Just chiming in with a lot of others here.

I have known I was bisexual for a long time. However I have never had any interest in sexual relationships with men who saw me as another man. Over time I lost the desire to be sexual with women who saw me as a man as well. That was the ultimate turnoff.

Well before hormones, but after I made the decision to transition, I became far more comfortable with the notion that I was attracted to men. That doesn't suggest hormones play no role at all. But I certainly haven't experienced any orientation changes. Just more opportunities to come out as who I really am - including in terms of sexual orientation.

Quote from: finewine on July 26, 2009, 03:41:18 AM
I also must express skepticism about it being down to hormone therapy.  I think it's far more likely that the act of transition makes one more comfortable with a sexual orientation that has probably always been there.

I cannot speak from my own experience as to a final outcome BUT I'm going to pre-emptively disagree with the "what you already were" thesis.

I feel, upon self examination, that I WANT to be attracted to and enjoy the company of men, romantically and sexually, post transition (laying aside my current marriage for a moment for the sake of discussion). It feels to me - and i know this can be taken as a prejudice against lesbians but it has nothing to do with what others do - it feels to me like that is the last capstone of being fully female is to respond to a man in that way.

If I were not involved in a relationship now I would be longing for that attraction to develop as much as i long for the physical transition.

BUT, right now, as much as i look for it - it's simply not there. I AM curious about it, and with her permission (not to distract into dirty laundry but we've already done some"swinging"  - or a variant thereof - so the "infidelity" wouldn't be an issue) I expect to experiment with it when the opportunity arises.

But i simply don't look at guys and think "he's hot" or "I wonder what kind of kisser he is?" or whatever. It's just not there.

If you see me here in 4 or 5 years talking about my "boyfriend" I promise you I'll be adamantly arguing that something changed in me because it's not there now, and I'm sure as heck not repressing.

My orientation has not changed at all, but once I had dealt with my gender identity, I was able to put some energy to dealing with my sexual identity. So I was able to face my bisexuality after I had faced my transsexuality.

I don't even know what my orientation is anymore.  Some days I'm noticing guys, other days I'm not.  Two years ago I would have said I'm only attracted to women even though that was only partially true.  I have always been attracted to women, just usually not sexually, and I have been interested in men, but not physically attracted to them.  Sometime around the beginning of this year I started noticing men were becoming more physically appealing, several months before I started hormones.
I don't think my orientation actually changed, it was just more complex than I was previously able to see.  I still find myself more physically attracted to women, but maybe that won't be the case in another six months.

I was at a rave saturday. There were lots of nicely toned boys with their shirts off dancing. They were pretty. I'm used to men being, in general, not very attractive and lazy. That was pleasant 

I grew up with the conditioning, social and personal, that I was supposed to like women. Testosterone helps, I'm sure. It's kind of a habit that I want to attract women. And granted, I do really enjoy the soft, smooth skin of a woman. My girlfriend of half a year and I broke up about a week ago, and the breakup sex was phenomenal, but... going down on a girl just doesn't interest me the way it used to. And as I began to really explore sex with her during our relationship, I realized that it was really just about feeling close to another person and the pleasure, with a mixture of the intoxication of giving and taking power. Not that I didn't like her, and enjoy pleasuring her, and of course I'm still horny as hell even on spiro, but sex with women always seems to carry this feeling of an obligation, or a job to do first, and pleasure second. At least she did help me to realize that having sex with a woman didn't make me feel masculine, since after all lesbians do penetrate too. That really made me enjoy the experience a lot more.

I vaguely remember seeing cute boys on TV when I was a teenager and ordering myself not to look, to stop getting turned on, whatever. Even though I've thought about men since I had a sex drive. They're just... strange, scary creatures. Who are usually fat, and hairy, and smell bad. *sigh* I shouldn't have turned down all those hot gay guys on OKC last year. 

I really do believe for myself that it's a socializing/comfort thing. In fact, I haven't told my dad that I'm trans yet (my mother knows), but somehow I feel telling my dad that I was dating a guy wouldn't be that hard of a conversation.

I think fear of the unknown, social pressures, self-loathing of our bodies, and inexperience combine to be very oppressive. I know that when my girlfriend penetrated me, it felt good, so very fulfilling on a personal level, but also so lacking - wrong anatomy!

I really find myself wondering who I should date at this point... the idea of being done with women is very weird. At the same time, I have to teach myself to appreciate masculine qualities and 'check out' guys, rather than just overlook them. I'm also one of those people who thinks that you should experience what you can in life as long as it isn't going to hurt anyone. It feels... like a waste to have SRS before having unprotected sex with a woman (since people seem to love that so much :p), but that's kind of a big deal. Of course SRS is a long way away for me.

Sex with a man is very different than sex with a woman (obviously, but I know it from experience too), so... when you're left enjoying both for different reasons and wanting both, it's really challenging.

I feel like I put the GLBT in GLBT.

Well. I can add that physical aspects play a role in sexual orientation, too.

Although I am taller than most of men, my shoulder and chest is narrower than most of men. Most men can embrace me and some of them comment that my body is nice for a man to hug.

I also like or sometimes am sexually aroused when men hug me. I may be able to please them sexually, only if they can accept me as a woman.

I guess that body also can influence our mind, ie., sexual orientation.

Barbie~~

Quote from: Laura Hope on July 26, 2009, 03:22:58 PMBut i simply don't look at guys and think "he's hot" or "I wonder what kind of kisser he is?" or whatever. It's just not there.

I'm noticing I am paying a LOT more attention to guys, especially the hot ones! Like Cami, I have been bisexual my entire life, and my very first sexual experiences were with guys my age. In every relationship I have had with a man whether full time dating or casual encounter, I have always assumed a feminine roll. If I weren't with a woman already who totally accepts me as a woman, I seriously doubt if I would even try to pursue another lesbian relationship. As I also believe it is obvious that hormones have nothing to do with orientation, that leaves me to think it is partly because I crave the full experience of being with a man as finally a complete woman, and partly because I know I could be perfectly happy in a hetero relationship as well.

Quote from: SarahFaceDoom on July 26, 2009, 03:19:55 AM
I agree with Tekla.  Your orientation doesn't change on hormones, just how repressed you are about it.  That in concert with being out I think does sometimes also open up people about their sexuality, and as the original poster said, there's perhaps greater societal pressures growing up as a boy, to be straight or at least act that way--so when you come out it kind of suddenly makes it okay to like boys too.  Something like that.

I tend to roll my eyes at transwomen who say that hormones in and of themselves changed their orientation.  That excuse might work for your mother, but I don't buy it.

You don't just suddenly flip your orientation.  If you like boys now, you've always liked them.  Deal.  With.  It.

Sarah and I will "face doom" together. I agree with exactly what she said even if it's not as pithy as what tekla said, it covers more ground.

Bi before and bi after. It never dawned on me that I'd have to develop a "new" sexuality as a result of transition. So, I didn't. 

And as for mechanics, should something untoward develop in my long-term current relationship (Mother forfend) then I'd prolly default back to trying to establish a relationship with a male like Fairy Girl said she would. They were where I began as well and her post rings true to my experience.

Quote from: Randy on July 26, 2009, 01:30:25 AM
Whenever anyone talks about their sexual orientation fluctuating (or outright changing) during transition, it's much more often a trans woman talking than a trans man. They say that women's sexuality is more fluid... I wonder, is this just the nature of estrogen versus testosterone? Or, that having been socialized as male, trans women are conditioned from an early age to be masculine and attracted to other women, and there is more pressure to repress anything that deviates from that? While, on the other hand, trans men socialized as female are allowed more freedom to have explored/accepted their orientation before an actual physical transition... Hormones or Upbringing? Some combination of the two? Thoughts?

There's a LOT! of pressure on male born persons to conform to socially acceptable standards in the area of gender and sexual orientation.  It is much more so than with female born persons.  So when a MTF has freed herself to the point she's on HRT or going through transition she also feels free to follow her natural inclinations.  That's why we see "shifts".  But it's really more freeing oneself.

I think it's highly doubtful a male born person who is solely attracted to females will suddenly change gender preferences just because of hormones.  There's a lot more going on deep within the psyche one may not realize.  Denial can be very powerful.

I've always been very attracted to women.  In my transitional stage I kissed a couple of guys and it did nothing for me.  They wanted things to escalate but there simply was no spark.  Now that I'm completely post-op and been on HRT over three years I can say this is more true than ever.  I've had plenty of guys show interest in me but there is never an interest on my part.  I'm lesbian, through and through.  I can't see that ever changing.

Julie

There is an excellent book on the subject as it applies to MTF's by "Sandra Samons"    "When the opposite sex isn't".

Quote from: SarahFaceDoom on July 26, 2009, 03:19:55 AM
I agree with Tekla.  Your orientation doesn't change on hormones, just how repressed you are about it.

I'm not convinced that's quite all there is to it. For me, another (and, I think, a more important) factor is that I'm girly enough to need a woman somewhere in the act. If I can be the woman the sex of my hypothetical partner doesn't matter; if I think of myself as having a male body the idea of being with 'another' man doesn't do very much either way, but the idea of being with a woman still works, sort of. In that sense, transsexuality masks bisexuality in a weird way.

  Nfr

Quote from: Seshatneferw on July 28, 2009, 02:06:09 AM
If I can be the woman the sex of my hypothetical partner doesn't matter; if I think of myself as having a male body the idea of being with 'another' man doesn't do very much either way, but the idea of being with a woman still works, sort of. In that sense, transsexuality masks bisexuality in a weird way.

  Nfr

I used to feel the same way, but that is slowly changing. Someone on here (year or more ago but I can never find it) equated it with needing femininity in the situation for it to work for them, be it by them, or another woman.

I do agree with you about transsexuality masking (bi)sexuality. It can really make it confusing. I think mine is finally starting to come around to something I can identify.

As I recall, the someone last summer(ish) was Kate -- or you may be referring to one of the 'me too' comments, including mine. 

Anyway, to make things more confusing, what about those few who are gay both before and after transition?

  Nfr

This reminds me of something I've been ruminating on for a few months now...and I'm not sure what to make of it.

And I've hesitated to bring it up because it seems to me it's possible for unpleasant assumptions to be read into it but *deep breath* oh well...

I have found that as I turn over in my mind the idea of being with a man, I feel much more intrigued by the idea of being with a black man than with a white guy.

I can't really figure out why, other than just a kind of innate attraction (no different than a guy having a taste for long legs or big breasts or red hair in the girls he dates) but I wonder if there's not a sense in which the "otherness" of a black man is what makes him a viable candidate, which is to say, having never been a black man, it doesn't feel exactly like being with someone else like me, which is something I couldn't get in a white guy and, in theory, something that might fade after transition.

Honestly, I have no clue...it just seems a bit of an odd feeling.

Quote from: Laura Hope on July 28, 2009, 05:52:10 PMI have found that as I turn over in my mind the idea of being with a man, I feel much more intrigued by the idea of being with a black man than with a white guy.

I can't really figure out why, other than just a kind of innate attraction (no different than a guy having a taste for long legs or big breasts or red hair in the girls he dates) but I wonder if there's not a sense in which the "otherness" of a black man is what makes him a viable candidate, which is to say, having never been a black man, it doesn't feel exactly like being with someone else like me, which is something I couldn't get in a white guy and, in theory, something that might fade after transition.

As a friend told me when I first started to notice guys... "you saw(see) something you like."
There's nothing wrong with it, and you can't control what or who you are attracted to.

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Post Merge: July 28, 2009, 08:58:52 PM

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Quote from: Seshatneferw on July 28, 2009, 09:45:47 AM
As I recall, the someone last summer(ish) was Kate -- or you may be referring to one of the 'me too' comments, including mine. 

Anyway, to make things more confusing, what about those few who are gay both before and after transition?

  Nfr

It may have been Kate, I searched for a few times but never found it. It certainly wasn't a short "me too" post, but it was a reply and a "me too" but with a well thought out and presented post that made a lot of sense to me at the time.  I think it may have even been paraphrased from another site or thread.

Quote from: Laura Hope on July 28, 2009, 05:52:10 PM
This reminds me of something I've been ruminating on for a few months now...and I'm not sure what to make of it.

And I've hesitated to bring it up because it seems to me it's possible for unpleasant assumptions to be read into it but *deep breath* oh well...

I have found that as I turn over in my mind the idea of being with a man, I feel much more intrigued by the idea of being with a black man than with a white guy.

I can't really figure out why, other than just a kind of innate attraction (no different than a guy having a taste for long legs or big breasts or red hair in the girls he dates) but I wonder if there's not a sense in which the "otherness" of a black man is what makes him a viable candidate, which is to say, having never been a black man, it doesn't feel exactly like being with someone else like me, which is something I couldn't get in a white guy and, in theory, something that might fade after transition.

Honestly, I have no clue...it just seems a bit of an odd feeling.

Could just be the look you're attracted to on a man. Plenty of white cisgirls feel the same.

Growing up Ts and hiding it does not allow oneself to discover much. Fear is the great repressor. I know that hormones did not change my sexual orientation, but admitting what I am allowed me to realize it. Failing in a couple marriages to women and wondering why. Finally realizing I wished I were them! So now I see that I want to be the girl in the relationship with a guy, both emotionally and physically. Hormones did not make me this way - at least those post birth!

Quote from: Nero on July 28, 2009, 09:40:03 PM
Could just be the look you're attracted to on a man. Plenty of white cisgirls feel the same.

Oh, I know that. I'm not confused about the racial angle on the surface of it. I just note an interesting contrast between not being able to find any base desire for males in general (and looking for it - no repression) and yet at the same time being intrigued by one SORT of men.

the two thought processes would seem to be in conflict logically.

Quote from: Laura Hope on July 28, 2009, 05:52:10 PM
This reminds me of something I've been ruminating on for a few months now...and I'm not sure what to make of it.

And I've hesitated to bring it up because it seems to me it's possible for unpleasant assumptions to be read into it but *deep breath* oh well...

I have found that as I turn over in my mind the idea of being with a man, I feel much more intrigued by the idea of being with a black man than with a white guy.

I can't really figure out why, other than just a kind of innate attraction (no different than a guy having a taste for long legs or big breasts or red hair in the girls he dates) but I wonder if there's not a sense in which the "otherness" of a black man is what makes him a viable candidate, which is to say, having never been a black man, it doesn't feel exactly like being with someone else like me, which is something I couldn't get in a white guy and, in theory, something that might fade after transition.

Honestly, I have no clue...it just seems a bit of an odd feeling.

Hi Laura.  I am also physically attracted to Black men, but not exclusively.  I soon learned that substance meant much more than fluff.  I just want to leave my options open, and am currently dating a very nice White Man, and a very sexy and intelligent Black man.  Life is good.