Is eye for an eye justice, or torture?
Is sending someone to prison where they are likely to be beaten and even more likely to be raped and contract a disease that may cause death or complicate all future partnerships, for relatively minor offenses torture?

I think some peoples' actions are so far beyond acceptable that life imprisonment or the death penalty are insufficient. Madoff? Life in prison with frequent torture is appropriate. How can you even begin to quantify the destruction and ruined lives by actions like that? War criminals, corrupt politicians? As an aside, I think that any politician found guilty of corruption should be executed for treason - the people voted them in with confidence of the peoples' best interests. Betrayal of such should cost them dearly.

Torture for information is dumb. Torture for punishment, well, I want it to have a place for some people.

I don't like rapists and could never be one. I do my best to help others. But I feel tortured every day. Mostly by injuries incurred while helping others  I don't believe in torturing those who have harmed others. But more over I can not understand the torture of those who have helped others 

There was a Mythbusters episode were they used water torture on one of the presenters. It was in the form of being immobilised and drops of water hitting the forehead. The woman involved developed quite nasty mental trauma very quickly, even though she was with friends and could stop at any time.

Shows the terrible effects.

Torture is always wrong. It's an abuse of human morality. People and governments that condone torture have lost the moral perspective that allows humanity to exist.

I too would subject rapists to awful punishment, they debased me and I have a very strong desire to hurt them, even from many years ago. Torturing them would bring me down to their level. I could never lower myself to that level. I take strength in that, strength they will never have. Their loss.

From a historical point of view, and I do not have the data, hence the question. Has barbaric punishment, death sentences, gaol for life with no possibility of release, had any effect on serious crime? The only one of those punishments I agree with is gaol with no chance of release BTW.

I don't think they have had any affect in the terrorism field, not sure about crime?
Cindy

Torture for retribution may be emotionally understandable but that doesn't make it justified.  If you allow it as revenge for rape, what else?  Where is the line drawn and who decides?

What about the lady who murdered her baby in a microwave?

Personally I'd cheerfully beat her to death with her own shoe - but I wouldn't make any attempt to claim to be justified, just utterly horrified and outraged.

I find it comical and tragic at the same time when I see the talking heads whine about where to put our war prisoners.  "Not in my country" they say.  Right. 

The primary problem that we have with these guys is that we can not prosecute them.  Yes, there are some really bad dudes in there.  There are also many who are completely innocent, were just trying to protect their country against an invader, or were turned in by an unfriendly neighbor for a cash payment.  But we can't prosecute them in a court of law.  Why?  Because we tortured them. We are a nation of laws.  And because we chose to ignore those laws, we can not deal with these people.  Unfortunately, what will inevitably happen, is that they will all rot in a cell for the rest of their lives.  Innocent or guilty..... it will not matter. For we can do nothing else.  If they are presented in court, they must be released, according to our laws.

See what happens when hate and prejudice get in the way?

Cindi

QuoteSee what happens when hate and prejudice get in the way?

See what happens when you are in the wrong place at the wrong time holding a smoking gun. Sometimes it is not enough to be innocent but you have to be extra good to your neighbors and everyone else. The appearance of being dangerous has a lot to do with how you appear to be and the way you treat people around you.

Quote from: lisagurl on August 03, 2009, 11:45:07 AM
See what happens when you are in the wrong place at the wrong time holding a smoking gun. Sometimes it is not enough to be innocent but you have to be extra good to your neighbors and everyone else. The appearance of being dangerous has a lot to do with how you appear to be and the way you treat people around you.

Not really. Some of the prisoners weren't fighting or holding weapons.  It also turns out that some of the high ranking Iraqi's were tortured even when they answered the questions honestly. Like: where are the weapons of mass destruction?   "We don't have any."  "oh yeah?" [sounds of torture]

Quote from: lisagurl on August 03, 2009, 11:45:07 AM
See what happens when you are in the wrong place at the wrong time holding a smoking gun. Sometimes it is not enough to be innocent but you have to be extra good to your neighbors and everyone else. The appearance of being dangerous has a lot to do with how you appear to be and the way you treat people around you.

Let me tell you something.  ALL of us appear dangerous to someone in our neighborhoods.  IF there were a cash bonus for turning in people in our country for a program like we implemented in the "war zones", I can guarantee you that many of us trans people would end up in the torture house.  That is why we can never allow these things to happen.  We can not torture.  For any reason.

QuoteALL of us appear dangerous to someone in our neighborhoods.

Only if you violate their culture. I never had any problems. Try pushing religion on people of other beliefs and they will torture you.

Lisagurl,

If you are trans you are violating their culture.  They believe you are a sexual pervert and that's that.  Bye bye Lisagurl to the torture camps..... and someone gets a nice little cash award for getting rid of you.

I am a female not trans. No violation there.

Lucky our gub'mt is so broke they can't offer cash rewards, an IOU maybe.

Quote from: lisagurl on August 09, 2009, 07:37:55 PM
I am a female not trans. No violation there.

Hmm.... well you participate on a forum with us.   Perhaps they could torture you for names

Quote from: Cindi Jones on August 09, 2009, 11:33:41 PM
Hmm.... well you participate on a forum with us.   Perhaps they could torture you for names

Watched

I can think of a few ex's that could stand a little bit of torture.