Hey, it's been almost 6 months since I was lst on here, and I'm using my phone to type this so I'll kee it short- there is so much anti-tolerance for anything LGBT in the army, that it's sickening. I've only been in for 5 months, but I've only found one person who supports lgbt rights.
I mean, why can't we do something bout the most terrifying form of lgbt hate that I've ever seen? And it's so hrd to put up with it and not be able to be out of the closet...
We need to do something. Aren't there orgnizations, or support groups, or activist groups for lgbt military personnel?? Or is this a hopeless battle?

Most of the time when I see other people ask similar questions everyone just says it's a hopeless battle. I don't know though..I've never been in the army and I don't wish to go. I agree that it's kinda messed up that the army doesn't support it but when it's one person against the whole army..it's kind of a hopeless battle

But it still sucks

Monty Python's Military Fairy

I would imagine there are more supportive people in the military than it seems to you. Just as you can't be out of the closet because of Don't Ask, Don't Tell, many people there may be hesitant to voice support for GLBT rights, because they don't want to be suspected of being gay by those in authority, or by the other members of their unit. And for many people, their fear of being considered gay is probably great enough to convince them to say a lot of -phobic things that they don't necessarily believe.

I've actually been thinking about this situation lately, because I've been increasingly wanting to join the military in a non-combat position, but there's no way I'll join as a woman and put off transition. I hope that after DADT is repealed, trans acceptance in the military can eventually happen. I understand, though, that trans activism, at the moment, is centered around much more pressing issues.

Anyway, I definitely applaud what you're doing, and hope that you can find more supportive peers very soon.

Maybe its just me (I'm sure it is) but I find it almost hysterical that people who preach stealth like its the Gospel of Jesus would protest DADT, when that's exactly what their life philosophy - in theory and practice - is.

Perhaps the Army, for whatever time honored reasons, and the Army is as old as history is, has a good reason for this.

For sure, an Army is more important to our nation than gay rights in the Army are.  I'm willing to settle for that.  An army runs on discipline, if you cant' keep your mouth shut, your private affairs private, then perhaps you should be on a talk show, and not the front lines.

Must be incredibily difficult to be GLTS in the army. It must be one of the most homophobic areas of society. Considering the pressure to conform to what the army wants as members, anything slightly different is going to get jumped on. Never been in any military force and really don't want to be, but thank you for protecting us.
Take Care

Cindy

Quote from: tekla on July 05, 2009, 02:43:32 AM
Maybe its just me (I'm sure it is) but I find it almost hysterical that people who preach stealth like its the Gospel of Jesus would protest DADT, when that's exactly what their life philosophy - in theory and practice - is.

I don't have strong opinions about going stealth versus being out, but I do have to disagree with this. I don't think that many people who live stealth lifestyles are doing it for any reason other than that they think it's best for THEM. From my experience with stealth people, as enthusiastic as some may be about how wonderful they believe it is to go stealth, most wouldn't be in support of forcing all other trans people to do it. Also, the situations are inherently very different. DADT forces gay soldiers to pretend to be straight. The trans version of DADT would be forcing trans people to pretend to be their birth sex, not forcing them to go stealth. In fact, that's the current policy on trans folks in the military.

Quote from: tekla on July 05, 2009, 02:43:32 AM
For sure, an Army is more important to our nation than gay rights in the Army are.  I'm willing to settle for that.  An army runs on discipline, if you cant' keep your mouth shut, your private affairs private, then perhaps you should be on a talk show, and not the front lines.

DADT isn't just about "keep[ing] your mouth shut, your private affairs private." If it was, I would probably be in support of it. But the fact is that a male soldier could potentially be discharged for saying "Oh, you're from (insert state here)? So's my boyfriend" within earshot of someone important (and as implausible as that situation may be, it could absolutely happen under the current policy). From where I'm standing, the current policy is a little like trying to get rid of a roach infestation with napalm.

I don't think that many people who live stealth lifestyles are doing it for any reason other than that they think it's best for THEM.

I'm pretty sure that the military does DADT for the very same reasons, that it's best for them.  At some point - and the military life is most certainly one of them - its not All About You.

And in fact, the UCMJ prohibits all sorts of sexual stuff, not just gay stuff.

And today - of all days - its good to know that we are free because some pretty rough guys - and some pretty tough chicks too - stand ready (and on occasion delivered) great and extreme violence on our behalf.

There is no other way.

If you can't abide by DADT, don't join the military.  No one is forced to, its an honor, not a requirement, like it is for Dark Lady, and that's because we're a hella lot freer as a nation then they are, and there are sacrifices to be made.

And, as I said, its not just a gay deal, you give up a lot of freedoms that civilians have for that privilege.  You don't have to do it, if you did it would be a different deal.

(Using my phone to type again)
I understand what you mean. But the fact of the matter is, being gay does not make the army any less tougher. The same is applied to religion, for many seem to think that being a christian is the only way to be a soldier, as well as being a republican.
As a matter of fact, I got more ->-bleeped-<- from my peers on being a liberal and a non-christian than I ever heard before. So basically, they can talk about how they hate muslims and ->-bleeped-<-s and how they love jesus but I can't say "the iraq war was wrong"? And I have said it, and no one took me seriously after that.
Also, I should mention, all you do in the army is talk about your private life. "When I get back home..." "I ->-bleeped-<-ed this girl..." "How many girls have you ->-bleeped-<-ed?", especially those questions. Everyone loves going into explicit detail about every sexual encounter they've had with women.
And me, them asking me about my sexual life, which I do like to keep to myself or within a very small circle of trusted friends... It definitely was embarasing. What was I supposed to tell them? The truth? That I have gender identity issues and happen to like guys and girls? No. The simple fact of the matter is, if I were gay and someone asked me how many girls I ->-bleeped-<-ed, I would have to lie in order to preserve my career. If I even so much as said "I don't have sex with women, I'm gay." Then I would be beat up, maybe killed, then given a discharge. Let alone telling them about my gender identity and even going into explicit detail, which I wouldn't do anyway, but still...
It sucks that you have to lie. And they see through your lies. If they even suspect you, you're out. And disgraced. You can still be tough and LGBT. Like me. I have a switch that I turn on only when I need it. But it still sucks I have to tell people that I'm straight. And yes, I've had to lie about that, too. The mere fact I possess feminine qualities raises questions in my peers minds. So I have to be a jackass. It's hard enough telling people I don't believe in their god or their politics without getting hit or screamed at... I can't imagine what would happen if I told them I was LGBT.
Just from their gay-hating stories they liked to tell about beating up '->-bleeped-<-s' because one decided to look at them a little bit. ->-bleeped-<- like that. It's horrible, and completely unnecessary. If anything, we need to be accepting LGBT with open arms. Not only would we have a larger army, but you'd be surprised how many LGBT would be willing to sacrifice themselves for this country, perhaps some of you are one of them, like myself. Personally I think LGBT are generally more passionate. Regular straight ->-bleeped-<-s here are apathetic to an insane degree and only join to kill people or get money...

The US military is as conservative as any southern baptist church you may run into on the back road of any number of southern states.  I certainly don't agree with the situation...many countries have proven that GLBT soldiers can serve side by side with straight soldiers without all the problems that our government says it will cause, however, it is what it is.  You knew this when you joined.  It was a horrible place for GLBT when I was in and it's just as horrible now.

Everyone knows what DADT is and regardless if you agree with it or not you still have to abide with it if you want to be a part of our military at this point in time.  If you can't do the job because being GLBT is just making it impossible for you then by all means get your discharge.  No dishonor there in my opinion.  You are picking a battle that you can't win.  Fighting for GLBT rights, as a GLBT soldier, from inside the military is impossible because you are automatically in violation of DADT by coming out. 

You have two options, as crappy as they are.  1. Deal with it. You signed a contract, took an oath and took on a job that sucks beyond imagination for GLBT soldiers. Keep your situation secret and play the game however you need to in order to survive your time. 2. Go to your next in charge and tell them you are TG and be auto-eliminated from the system.

Believe me I know how much it sucks, I was there.  But until the military changes it's policies it's going to be hell.  Let's be honest...even after a policy change is put in place that doesn't ban GLBT soldiers from serving it's still going to be hell for a looooong time afterwards.  Policies don't change attitudes...people do. 

On a more personal note I admire you for serving, especially considering the situation in this discussion.  I hope whatever you choose to do it works out for you. 

Quote from: BrandiOK on July 05, 2009, 03:24:49 PM
Go to your next in charge and tell them you are TG and be auto-eliminated from the system.

Believe me I know how much it sucks, I was there.

I would make darn sure you can't bear it before taking this step. I'm serious, you need to catch yourself thinking about suicide or worse before you even start to lean this direction. You'll be branded and that's no fun.
On some positive notes: I served in the Marine Corps, and you can't beat military life in terms of a healthy lifestyle, it will dramatically hold back the aging process. Be careful about building muscle mass your'e just going to want to get rid of later. They say you need to be either a good shot or a fast runner, be the later. I know the lifestyle sucks, but your'e in it now and the potential benefits are really worth sticking it out for if you can in any way. Financially it has been a windfall, when I decided to return to school to my delight I found it paid for 100%, with a living allowance thrown in just for fun. It's nice to have your living expenses covered when you have ~$200 a week in hair removal costs, ~$300 in therapy, and so on.

As far as the conversations with your peers, I might suggest finding new friends. I've had some of the deepest reflections on everything from the meaning of the oath to spirituality with fellow leathernecks, and for that matter do you really think your'e the only one like you there? 5 months is nothing sweety, hang in there. Life gets better, a LOT better once your'e out there being gi joe 

(Cell phone again)
The thing is, I've been putting up with it for half a year. And... I don't know, I just saw a number of inspirational movies, one of them being "Milk" and I just want to do something. I know I can't do it, I'd violate DADT... Maybe after I get out in 3 years? I'll just concentrate on being a good soldier, but I'll do my best to defend LGBT whenever the conversation arises.

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Post Merge: July 05, 2009, 03:52:53 PM

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(I just read beccas post)
Well, three years isn't that long, I suppose to deal with it. Don't get me wrong, I love the military but... It's a little ridiculous with the whole DADT thing...

Remember this? you wrote it...

"The reasons I do want to join-
- Become disciplined
- Money for college
- Do something for my country
- Get in great shape
- Use the skills I learned to use at a later date, like leadership, or if there is in fact a revolution, I'd be of some use."

Don't say half a year, that sounds longer. Say 6 months.

A lot of us join the military in an attempt to "cure" ourselves. I specifically remember this thought process when I enlisted, the Army and USMC recruiters were across from each other. The Army had a poster of some girl fooling around on a puter, the MC had a mannequin in dress blues. I picked what I thought was the most masculine option, and I said to myself (and I'll never forget it) "this will fix me for sure".

I don't mean to advocate for military service, to the contrary. It was hell on earth for me and set me back a decade emotionally. The thing is you are committed now and the only way out is...distasteful...at best. It kinda looks to me like you knew what you were getting into, and you gave it a lot of thought, I'd just hate to see you make a serious mistake again. Again, I have to remind you that it gets better. After a while, unless you are deployed, it becomes pretty much like any other job.

(Cell phone)
I love the army, I think it's great and I am proud to be serving in the 1st Infantry Division. I am getting deployed in two years, but if it were up to me I'd get on a plane tomorrow and start fighting... One of the reasons why I should have joined the marines, I wouldn't be home for very long.
But anyway, I just want them to accept and stop discriminating so strongly against LGBT. They are treated the worse in the military, and it sucks that all I want to do is serve my country but I have to put up with more bigots than I've ever seen in my life... Some of the things they say just can't be human!
It sucks I have to live in secretin order to be accepted by my family alone... But to be accepted by the military! Forget it. Never mind that you are putting your life on the line to preserve the constitution and what rights we do have left.
You're LGBT. You're not normal. You're not capable of being strong or being able to fight because obviously you'll be focused too much on all the men or something stupid like that.
I don't even know what it is!

well th military is like a club. they can let in or kick out whom ever they want for whatever reason. that is why i just help train troops for 68w and PJ (medic training), they seem to be behind on the times and have to pay the price for it alot of times once over seas. it sucks but we cant just make them do anything. but they are the ones who pay when lbgt people help the other side due to their its not normal fear.

The Supreme Court held up the "don't ask, don't tell" thing because of the close quarters and lack of privacy in the military. But I don't know if that explains their prejudicial attitudes. Anyone got any thoughts on that?

Don't worry hun, I know exactly what you're going through, only in my case, it's the Marines. It is actually a little worse for me, because I've been in 3.5 years, have 2.5 years left, and I'm getting deployed in December. The biggest deal to me is that I can't be myself the whole time. Oh well, I've sucked it up this long, why not longer?

It sucks too, because you can't just get discharged if you don't like it. The only way to leave early is to get a dishonorable, or general under other than honorable conditions. Either severly limits what you do afterwards as far as jobs and loans and stuff. So until I get out, its just going day by day, chow by chow, just like boot.

I don't know if there can be anything done hun, but know that you have a sister in arms out there helping you out . PM me anytime you want to talk about it or just share war stories. GL with your unit and hope you don't lose your mind!  (Marines are insane by default, so I don't have a mind ).

Where are they deploying you to vanessa, or is it the obvious spot?

Hi Becca! I am getting deployed to Afghanistan. I'm not allowed to be more specific.

If they catch you telling me where you are going on this board, yer going to have bigger problems than what I know or don't know.

Thanks for doing that, for going there, someone needs to. What a neat place to be, if one has to be deployed anywhere. From what I understand the Marines there actually hold the bad guys at bay, keeping them in line and preventing them from beheading barbers and throwing acid on women and stuff. How neat to get to make a tangible difference in peoples lives like that like that.

Yer a regular superhero 


I never got to do anything as noble. I spent most of my tour split between fooling around in Japan and tromping around South America. How is your family taking the news of your...trip?