Ok. I'm trying to ask this w/out writing a book but it's hard. I am a transsexual woman. My lover of 6 years is in his 50s. I'm in my 30s. We have a wonderful relationship & an awesome, active sex life. We love each other. My lover has been married 2x. His 1st wife had 3 kids but then left him for someone else, and he married the second woman on the rebound. He and his second wife never got along it was a mistake. He could never make her happy. He had his vasectomy reversed thinking kids would make her happy, but after she had a boy and a girl things only got worse, so he left. The kids from the second marriage hated him for leaving. And, as you may imagine, when we started dating and became very close, they hated me. That was then. Now his oldest daughter from the second marriage is 17, will turn 18 later this month. She's had probs since she became a teenager. She started doing drugs and sleeping around. She was put into a psych hospital and later put in a rehab school for 9 months (it cost 30,000K & was her mom's idea plus none of it was covered by health insurance b/c though it is a rehab it is classified as a "private school" to keep the child's records from being tainted). Her father paid for her to have a $14000 truck on her 16th birthday which was subsequently totalled. Most recently, she fell out of a tree drunk and broke a vertebrae & then "got physical" with her mother and that's when her mom called her dad & asked him to let her move in w/ him. Now she's living with him. I moved out so we wouldn't be shacking up around her. She's stopped screwing everyone she meets so she has a boyfriend who her dad thinks is worthless (he's got a wrap she for burglary of occupied structure & his license is suspended but before he found that out he'd been driving her around), but at least he's one person even if he is 27 and she's turning 18 this month. Her insurance, which is not full coverage is $300 a month, b/c she's had so many crashes and wreckless tickets. I personally think she should not have just been given a second car w/out showing some sort of initiative like getting a part time job. Even if it is 10 hours a week. The next thing is she wears clothes that cut her crotch front and back, for which she gets sent home from school. Recently her dad gave her a credit card for emergencies only, but she'd managed to wrack up $500 in expenses for nothing (fast food, gas station, cigarettes--yes, she smokes) in about 2 weeks. He had to cancel the card. He found that she has forged his name on Saturday school notices. He let her have a beer or glass of wine once in a while in his presence so now she's started coming home from her weekend escapades with her wine coolers (she prefers them to beer-as if that's legal). He drinks beer & so do I, but mainly on the weekend when she's gone. Her father & I happened to notice her myspace once when the computer was left on, and she's got on little jean shorts, a crop top is poking out her boobs (which are tiny) and is a full length photo she is tall and slender, but complains about her nose being crooked and huge (which she's right, but she can always change it as an adult if she wants to fix it--it's not the end of the world). Her dad said that based on her promiscuity and her choice of clothing and her worship my body photos, he complains she thinks she's "hot ****" and if she won't get a job he worries she'll eventually turn to porn or stripping since she is so focused on her body rather than anything else in her life. Her boyfriend is all about sex. Her music about sex. Her clothes about sex. But I defended her saying it was a phase, and I try to listen to her. I do her nails. I did like her but something's changed. I mentioned that I moved out so she could be w/ her dad w/out me around. I was happy to. But now that I see her manipulating her situation, I am mad, maybe a bit jealous, which I don't like even in myself. But she's living in what I knew as my home, and she's treating her father and me more disrespectful more just using us. The other day I went over with her father to walk our dog. We went for abt an hour then came back. She was laying on the couch watching Maury w/ a sports bra and men's boxer shorts so thin and white I could see the color of her skin through them and they were rolled down to her pubic bone. Way down. Who the hell is that for? To irritate me? To make me jealous or feel disrespected or to question the appropriateness of what goes on there b/c it's totally inappropriate to dress like that in front of company & I only come over when she's there to cook them dinner, walk w/ him and the dog, or help with a project, or do her nails. I'm at my place during her school week, and if he and I drink a beer together, we do it w/out her at the pub. I was angry with her & him. Enough is enough. He didn't notice it and said I was overreacting b/c she was at home & is comfortable around us. But see, I don't want her to feel that comfortable with me. It makes me uncomfortable. She's pushed me way past my limits.

It sounds like the daughter is a total train wreck Daisy, and I'm sorry for both you and your partner.  I honestly don't know if I would recommend sending her to therapy, or just convincing your partner to kick her out once she turns 18.  All she's doing is taking advantage of everyone around her, and she obviously has no respect for you or her father; and it seems she clearly has no concept of managing money at all.  Has she even tried to pay any of those expenses back?

How long has this been going on?  If it's been happening for years with no end in sight, something has to give.

Quote from: Fae on July 31, 2009, 07:57:24 PM
It sounds like the daughter is a total train wreck Daisy, and I'm sorry for both you and your partner.  I honestly don't know if I would recommend sending her to therapy, or just convincing your partner to kick her out once she turns 18.  All she's doing is taking advantage of everyone around her, and she obviously has no respect for you or her father; and it seems she clearly has no concept of managing money at all.  Has she even tried to pay any of those expenses back?

How long has this been going on?  If it's been happening for years with no end in sight, something has to give.

Her father doesn't seem to realize he's being taken advantage of like i do. She's had many problems ever since she became a teenager, and they have not changed. And no, she hasn't tried to pay any off the expenses.

Quote from: YellowDaisy on July 31, 2009, 08:19:50 PM
Her father doesn't seem to realize he's being taken advantage of like i do. She's had many problems ever since she became a teenager, and they have not changed. And no, she hasn't tried to pay any off the expenses.

I would sit down with your partner and talk about this, and my advise would be for both of you to cut your losses with her.  Give her a deadline of a few months to find a new place to live, either with her boyfriend or whomever; point being, the situation isn't healthy for you or your partner, and like I said, something's gotta give.  You both can still have a relationship with her, but she's gotta grow up and stop taking advantage of both of you.

Hi Daisy,

This daughter has real problems, but they are not your responsibility. It sounds like your lover's daughter has severly impacted your relationship with your partner. If she is going to be 18 soon then she should be encouraged to get a job and move out and start living on her own. I suggest that you, your partner, and this kid start making plans to how to get her out on her own (sounds like the sooner the better)


Brenda

Possibly suggest to him, make it a condition of remaining in her fathers house that she have a job, do chores, be more responsible, etc. Make it clear and stick to your guns. I know you need to so the same with her father for yourself.

There's good advice being given here, but ultimately, she's not yours.
She's his, and it is his responcibility to handle her. The house is his, and it is his responcibility to set the rules of his own home.
I would sit down with him and voice my concerns, even make suggestions, offer to help, but if he's unresponsive, then there's nothing you can do.

From her perspective her father left her when she was growing up, her mom didn't want her and kicked her to her dad.  Who knows what else has happened, but I think it's clear that she doesn't feel self-worth or loved.  And she probably does feel guilty about coming to her dad's house and his girlfriend having to leave.  I mean it's a bit weird.  If I were her, I would be a little stressed about it, and I imagine it colors how he treats her as well. 

She does need rules, if nothing else so she knows her father cares about her, and doesn't just see her as a problem to chuck money at.  She'll treat his money with more respect if he is a man who she respects, which she clearly doesn't, and I wonder how much of a reason she has been given.

It's obviously not your problem, but do understand that she's living her own life too, and there's a lot of things there that probably seem awfully unfair to her too.

I don't know how much it would hurt if you three all sat down and talked things out honestly and openly.  If you want to stay with this man, you will need to have a relationship with his daughter.  How close are you guys?  I know you do her nails, but how often do you get to talk to her?  Does she have anyone she can go to for the problems she is having?  Have you tried being that person for her?

As for the wearing boxers thing, I doubt she was doing it with you in mind at all.  Nothing you said paints her as someone who is even thinking about other people.  She probably was just doing what was comfortable for her, because she feels she is the only one who can look out for her.

Justifiably you have some issues with both her and her father though.  She is hurting your lover, and he kicked you out of his house for her.  Who wouldn't be upset and jealous over that situation?

Have you tried reading any books on how to deal with step-kids? I'm sure there's a lot out there.

Quote from: SarahFaceDoom on August 01, 2009, 08:49:27 AM
From her perspective her father left her when she was growing up, her mom didn't want her and kicked her to her dad.  Who knows what else has happened, but I think it's clear that she doesn't feel self-worth or loved.  And she probably does feel guilty about coming to her dad's house and his girlfriend having to leave.  I mean it's a bit weird.  If I were her, I would be a little stressed about it, and I imagine it colors how he treats her as well. 

She does need rules, if nothing else so she knows her father cares about her, and doesn't just see her as a problem to chuck money at.  She'll treat his money with more respect if he is a man who she respects, which she clearly doesn't, and I wonder how much of a reason she has been given.

It's obviously not your problem, but do understand that she's living her own life too, and there's a lot of things there that probably seem awfully unfair to her too.

I don't know how much it would hurt if you three all sat down and talked things out honestly and openly.  If you want to stay with this man, you will need to have a relationship with his daughter.  How close are you guys?  I know you do her nails, but how often do you get to talk to her?  Does she have anyone she can go to for the problems she is having?  Have you tried being that person for her?

As for the wearing boxers thing, I doubt she was doing it with you in mind at all.  Nothing you said paints her as someone who is even thinking about other people.  She probably was just doing what was comfortable for her, because she feels she is the only one who can look out for her.

Justifiably you have some issues with both her and her father though.  She is hurting your lover, and he kicked you out of his house for her.  Who wouldn't be upset and jealous over that situation?

Have you tried reading any books on how to deal with step-kids? I'm sure there's a lot out there.

I'm really at a loss with what needs to be done about her. I guess we are going to have try and get her into therapy. if that doesn't work out, then i really don't know what to do. she's had no discipline, and that's the way she's been raised. I think anything that is a privilige should be taken away. Like her car, her TV, all electronic equipment, ban computer access. If all else fails, we may just have to look into her moving out and getting a place of her own. Thank you for the suggestions everyone.

Discipline won't really work if it's just done to punish.  It has to come from a place of love and concern.  And whatever you take away you have to replace with something else.

So maybe you take away the TV, but you replace it with more family time.

I think she probably just needs love and time.  It sounds like she's been through a pretty rough go of it.  Be sensitive to that.

Yes therapy would be good, but it won't work if you're just dumping her into a therapist so that her dad doesn't have to deal with her issues.

I would not be focusing on solutions that involve her moving out.  That's your jealousy talking and if it comes down to it, it sounds like your man would choose his daughter over his lover.  For a myriad of reasons.  But not for nothing, you don't live there already.  So I'm not sure it's going to be productive to look for solutions that involve her moving out.  It will put a lot of stress on your man.

Some things, one of which your not going to like, the other offers some hope - slight.

First, what you're not going to like. 
- The next thing is she wears clothes that cut her crotch front and back, for which she gets sent home from school.
- Her boyfriend is all about sex. Her music about sex. Her clothes about sex.
- She was laying on the couch watching Maury w/ a sports bra and men's boxer shorts so thin and white I could see the color of her skin through them and they were rolled down to her pubic bone. Way down. Who the hell is that for? To irritate me?

To irritate me?  Hell yeah, is it working?  We rarely give kids credit for much fashion sense (largely because they don't have any) but they are really good at rebellion, making a scene/statement, flouting convention and just generally trying to piss off adults.  If she has the body for it, go for it - God knows you don't get that many years for it.  And sure the clothes are about sex, and so is the music.  By the way, so was yours, you just don't see it.  All you're doing by getting so uptight about the fashion deal is proving to her what she already thinks she knows, which that you're kinda out of it. And I'm sure that given the circumstances there is also a very high degree of "Hey, look what I can do" (that you can't) and rubbing your face in it.  Is perhaps there a degree of jealousy going on here?

And of course her BF is all about sex.  Exactly what 27 year old guy is dating a 17 year old girl for any other reason?  In this case, its obviously not her maturity. Although given this, my lover of 6 years is in his 50s. I'm in my 30s, you two don't exactly have any room to talk to them about it.

Now, on to the real important stuff.

One.  Blood is thicker than water. Or it should be.  Your BF has a moral and ethical obligation to her that up to this point he has totally failed at.  His obligation is to her, not to you. If I had even been close to a position where I had to choose between my kids and a GF (and I never have been) I'd toss my GF under the bus so fast she's never hear the wheels turning. Girlfriends are a dime a dozen, but he has this one kid he's trying to do the right thing for.  Easy choice for a mature rational adult to make.  Morally and ethically, its the only acceptable choice.

Now, it is obvious in this that your BF doesn't have a clue as to how to parent.  As any parent will tell you - and popular culture is so full of this that's it become it's own cliche - teenagers, even the best ones, are almost impossible to parent.  And that's with some 12-13 years to get used to being a parent, and trying very hard to do right by them so they don't get into this stuff when they hit that age. To have it dumped on you, at the tail end, without having any input along the way, without having some ability - if only through familiarity - with having your voice heard by them, I can't imagine anything more difficult.

He needs to be able to get through to her, to have a relationship with her - and I bet she wants that too - and your just in the way of that to her.  I've never seen a 17 year old girl who does not have daddy wrapped around her finger, that's where and how they learn it.

Personally, I really don't think anyone under 21 needs to even drive, much less have their own car.  (Yes, I'm an old foggy, and you kids get off my lawn while your at it, and if you would have even suggested such a thing to me when I was 16/17 I'd a skinned you alive.  But...)  And, at that, their first car ought to be a beater, like most kids first cars are, not something that costs over 10 grand. Deal I made with my kids was, I'll pay half of the cost of the car, no matter what, if you earn the other half, and I'll insure it under my policy which will save you a huge amount of money.  But you will pay half, and pay your own insurance.  My second kid to this day has not ever owned a car, finding much better things to do with his money.  I saw that as teaching responsibility, and choices. 

he worries she'll eventually turn to porn or stripping since she is so focused on her body rather than anything else in her life  Most kids at that age are very focused on their body, its all they really have that's theirs when you think about it.  But, if she does not start doing something she could end up doing that as there are not a lot of jobs out there for people with her skill set.  Given that, he ought to help do anything, and everything to change that possible future. As far as I'm concerned fathers of daughters have only one real imperative in life and its to keep the girl off the damn pole.

Some of this is also very petty I think.  Like:
Recently her dad gave her a credit card for emergencies only, but she'd managed to wrack up $500 in expenses for nothing (fast food, gas station, cigarettes--yes, she smokes) in about 2 weeks.
Exactly what kind of emergencies does a 17 year old girl have?  She might get stuck halfway across the country and need a plane ticket home?  Food, gas, smokes - that's an emergency to a 17 year old, it ain't 'nothing' to her, that's you talking there. You're just awful damn lucky she didn't have a clothing emergency, she could have done $500 in a couple hours at Forever 21. As it is, that's what, an average of about $40 bucks a day, not outrageous.

And what kind of idiot (sorry, but that's how I see it) would give a credit card to a 17 year old in the first place?  I'd give her a debit card, and put money in every week or whatever, but when its gone, poof, its gone.

You need to step back and give them space.  Its not your problem that you created, and you can do nothing to solve it.  Sometimes our past just up and bites us in the ass, and that's what's happening to him now.