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To Pass or not to pass? That is the stress

Started by Megan, August 23, 2006, 08:34:31 PM

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Megan

Just some advice for those of you that are worried about whether you will 'pass' or not.

In my experiences with my TS friend is that she looked way more female when she was relaxed and not worrying about 'passing' than when she was worried about it all.  I realize this is a big step and that you want to be presented to the world as the gender you were meant to be, however, it's not healthy to stress so much.  A lot of being a woman is being confident and knowing that inside you are a beautiful woman - and when you acheive this you will portray that on the outside.  I know it's easier said that done - but it's so true.

Don't spend so much time facing the mirror and criticizing yourself on all the little flaws/imperfections you may notice - we are all our biggest critic.  Instead step back and realize - you are beautiful - and if the world doesn't want to think so it's entitled to it's opinion but it will be missing out!  Keep your chin up and face the world eye to eye, don't walk face down wondering if someone is going to look at you and 'know'.  Don't give them the chance to wonder about your gender - flaunt it and they will know!

So that is my biggest advice.  I get downhearted to see so much stress/unhappiness worrying about this.


Smile and the world smiles with you....fart and you stand alone!  lol



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Buffy

Quote from: Megan on August 23, 2006, 08:34:31 PM
In my experiences with my TS friend is that she looked way more female when she was relaxed and not worrying about 'passing' than when she was worried about it all.  I realize this is a big step and that you want to be presented to the world as the gender you were meant to be, however, it's not healthy to stress so much.  A lot of being a woman is being confident and knowing that inside you are a beautiful woman - and when you acheive this you will portray that on the outside.  I know it's easier said that done - but it's so true.

So true.... my biggest hang up was my failure to believe that people actually saw me as Female.... ::)

It took a lot of hard work from my friends over a long period of time for me to get that conviction and rid me of that paranoia... It  was a step change in my development.

Buffy

;D
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LynnER

Ive noticed the same thing too.....  I dont go "out" very often and untill Ive had a drink or two Im very selfconcious which dosnt help.....  But just out and about even when in guy/work mode I get mamed and Im not thinking about it or trying... Its all about the atitude, and at the same time not trying seems to help heh....  Just have to learn to relax and smile LoL
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LostInTime

I find myself slipping back into the "trying to hide out in the open" bad habits from time to time.

I used to be very worried about passing and it showed.  After I stopped thinking about it, things flowed a lot better for me.
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Melissa

My concern about passing involves watching my mannerisms carefully and working to improve areas I don't consider to be my strong points.  Also, while in stealth and talking to other women, I need to watch my words carefully like indicating my spouse is female and using female versions of terms that I hadn't thought about before such as "jill of all trades" instead of jack.  Another woman I was talking to had used that phrase and if I hadn't been thinking about it I may have used the wrong one.  So I still have some training when referring to myself in some ways.  I normally talk freely about my past as almost everything I've done in life (with the exception of boyscouts) has been fairly gender neutral.

Melissa
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Sheila

Megan,
  You are so right. It is attitude and that is what it's all about. Mind you that you should shave if you still have hair on your face.LOL The only thing that I find hard is my voice, but I'm older and I get away with it. When people look at me, my first thought is I must be wearing something they like. Then I go on thinking that I must be attractive and beautiful. Well, we will leave off attractive and beautiful, just something that I was thinking. Day dreamer. I do believe what Megan has said, hold your head high and be who you truely are. Own it!!
Sheila
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Melissa

Good point Sheila.  When people look at me, I assume the best, rather than the worst.  Of course it also helps that the look is usually accompanied by a smile.

Melissa
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wannalivethetruth

Quote from: Megan on August 23, 2006, 08:34:31 PM
Just some advice for those of you that are worried about whether you will 'pass' or not.

In my experiences with my TS friend is that she looked way more female when she was relaxed and not worrying about 'passing' than when she was worried about it all.  I realize this is a big step and that you want to be presented to the world as the gender you were meant to be, however, it's not healthy to stress so much.  A lot of being a woman is being confident and knowing that inside you are a beautiful woman - and when you acheive this you will portray that on the outside.  I know it's easier said that done - but it's so true.

Don't spend so much time facing the mirror and criticizing yourself on all the little flaws/imperfections you may notice - we are all our biggest critic.  Instead step back and realize - you are beautiful - and if the world doesn't want to think so it's entitled to it's opinion but it will be missing out!  Keep your chin up and face the world eye to eye, don't walk face down wondering if someone is going to look at you and 'know'.  Don't give them the chance to wonder about your gender - flaunt it and they will know!

So that is my biggest advice.  I get downhearted to see so much stress/unhappiness worrying about this.


Smile and the world smiles with you....fart and you stand alone!  lol


this is realllllly true
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barbie

To the eyes of strangers, I do not know well whether I pass or not. But in strange places, I always use women's bathroom.

Passing to eyes of the public is possbile, but most people I interact and dress for are my close friends and colleagues. They all know that I am a crossdresser whatever I look like. Even though they know that I am a man, I want their positive comments and responses on my looking. My investment for beauty and fashion is not for passing, but just for looking better as a woman to the eyes of my close aquaintances.

Barbie~~

Just do it.
  • skype:barbie?call
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maidenprincess

I just pretend everyone already knows or would automatically guess just by looking at me.  They don't, but all the same, it takes away some of the insecurity.
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K8

Quote from: maidenprincess on July 26, 2009, 03:18:56 PM
I just pretend everyone already knows or would automatically guess just by looking at me.  They don't, but all the same, it takes away some of the insecurity.

I agree.  I am transitioning in a small town.  Almost everyone I meet on a daily basis knows of my past.  When I go to another town, I just relax and be myself.  Once I decided I really didn't care whether I pass or not, I found that most people treat me as a woman. 

Don't worry about it.  Be yourself.  Let your inner light shine out.  Most people will appreciate it.  And if someone thinks you're a man in drag, so what? ;D

- Kate
Life is a pilgrimage.
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Lorraine Dawe

I find it very confusing to be honest the notion of passing. I am probably wrong here but to me you can never really pass fully until you can't pass as the opposite gender. I could still pass very easily as a man, despite a year on hormones, I look good as a female but there are quite obviously male traits still there. You can't reverse 20 years of male hormones flooding your body that easily. I read the thread on passing and yeh I do believe confidence counts for a lot, I am never quite sure about deportment skills because a lot of males and females carry both traits.

I am full time at work a lot of people come into the office and I do wonder if they clock me, but if they do no one has made it obvious, then again I have been stood in a cue waiting to get into a nightclub, and a gf, has automatically referred to me as him, without even looking at me properly, god knows 12 months on hormones and you would think I would be giving out female signals to people, some people just seem to have this inbuilt radar, they can just tell instantly.

I recently went to see my doctor and I asked them straight 'how do I look' they said you look very feminine I would take you as a woman. I walked back to mine a 5 min walk and some woman stopped and shouted at me 'lady boy' I have no idea what gave her that impression of me, but yeh it was a knock back to my confidence at the time.

I can explain the stress element quite easily from my own point of view, when you first start going out or particularly when you go full time, you need to gain confidence really quickly to survive. If you can't pass well you need the next best thing and that's acceptance. Either will do, but you are desperate for a period of no comments of people, because early on too many negative comments of people just make RLE all the harder. That's where the stress comes from, your almost relying on the the public to dictate whether or not transitioning is gonna be easy or hard for you.

Then there is the problem of what it is thats gets some people read more easily than others, I get sirred a lot still and yet I have been told I have quite a feminine face, so there is conflict there as to what it is that gets me read so easily, you can't always pin it down, people's perceptions of us are out of our own control, and it can be very frustrating sometimes, god knows I know of trans girls that claim they hardly ever get read, and yet I feel and so do they that I look more feminine than they do. Its not easy to begin with, some have it easier or harder than others do, but its true you ask someone for advice on how you look and all you ever get is 'you look fine, like a girl in my case' are they being honest, do they not want to hurt your feelings, or do people really see people differently ? You just don't know when you pass to people, you only know when you don't when people make comments loud enough for you to hear, you could pass 95% of the time but comments could amount to 2% of that time but the perception you could get is that 2% is worth the remaining 98%.

An easy start to transitioning is to say 3 months and not get any negativity and then maybe get read,and then you would think ok but thats the first time in 3 months. A bad start is being read knowingly a lot for the first few weeks/months and then thinking is this ever gonna get any better. Its getting off the ground and being allowed to gain confidence, the public don't realise this, they don't know how hurtful they are being to someone just by even asking the question 'are you a boy or girl ?' that's the problem as I see it, if everyone knew just how hard it was and understood they wouldn't question well not to you at least, at least wait until you can't hear what they are saying, ignorance is all around us.

And then there's the issue of some cross dressing and those transitioning, can some tell the difference, I don't think that they can always, and that's a harsh reality that some of us have to live with certainly in the early stages of transition.

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Valerie Elizabeth

Quote from: Lorraine Dawe on July 30, 2009, 09:57:03 PM
I find it very confusing to be honest the notion of passing. I am probably wrong here but to me you can never really pass fully until you can't pass as the opposite gender.

I disagree with this.  My sister could pass as a man if she tried.  I understand what you are getting at, but I disagree with it.  I think there are plenty of women who have masculine features, and with a little work could look like a man without a problem.



Quote from: Lorraine Dawe on July 30, 2009, 09:57:03 PM
Its not easy to begin with, some have it easier or harder than others do, but its true you ask someone for advice on how you look and all you ever get is 'you look fine, like a girl in my case' are they being honest, do they not want to hurt your feelings, or do people really see people differently ?

I feel like a lot of people will tell you what you want to hear, even if it isn't the truth.  I wrote a rather angry post a couple months ago, and I talked about this.  I feel like people wont tell you the truth because they don't want to hurt your feelings, or they don't want you mad at them.  Maybe it's just me, but I am glad that I have friends who when I ask, tell me I look like crap. 



Quote from: Lorraine Dawe on July 30, 2009, 09:57:03 PM
You just don't know when you pass to people, you only know when you don't when people make comments loud enough for you to hear, you could pass 95% of the time but comments could amount to 2% of that time but the perception you could get is that 2% is worth the remaining 98%.

I recently heard the title of a book, and I think it applies here.  "Act like a lady, think like a man." by Steve Harvey.  I heard an interview with the author, and if I remember correctly he was talking about how men would brush off a bad comment (even if he retorted back), whereas a woman would stew about it, and it would haunt her for a long time.  What I guess he was trying to get at (and what I am trying to say) is you need to let them go in one ear, and out the other.  My mother always used to tell me that.  "Go in one ear, and right out the other."

I know that is harder than it seems.  "Sticks and stones may break your bones, but names will never hurt you."  "I am made of rubber and your made of glue - what you say bounces of me and sticks to you."  Those sayings only work if you want them to.  Easier said than done.  Honestly, I think that it all comes down to confidence.  I know that it has been said a million times, so I am going to say it a million more.  Confidence.  It plays such a big part in life, especially ours.  Don't think about if you pass or not.  Think of it like this.  Genetic women don't think if they look like a woman everyday, because they know they do and are.  Worry about your hair being flat, your lips being dry, or that cute new boy you met - whatever.  Worry about something that actually matters (flat hair, cute boys, and dry lips are all important in my book).



Confidence.  My mother always used to tell me, "Walk with your shoulders back, and your head up.  Look like you have somewhere to go and something to do, even if you have nothing to do and nowhere to go."

Believe that you are a women.  Know it with every fiber in your body.  Stop thinking about passing or not - and I know it's hard, really I do.  I have been there.  Just be yourself, and it will work out.






PS.  I know I brought up my mother a lot today, but I felt her advice was really useful.
PPS.  I know that this has been brought up before, but I know that believing in yourself is key, and it works for me.  I want everyone to get there, and if I can help by saying it 10 more times I will.
"There comes a point in life when you realize everything you know about yourself, it's all just conditioning."  True Blood

"You suffer a lot more hiding something than if you face up to it."  True Blood
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Nygeel

For myself I always seem to be to feminine to pass (I'm FTM). I really try not to stress about it, and I've done the whole being confident thing, but nothing seems to work. I'm seen as a masculine female for the most part. Occasionally I'll get confused looks, or people that see me as androgynous or something.
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Lorraine Dawe

My sister couldn't pass a man cause she is 5 foot 1inches tall, my mom is barely 5 foot bith take size 3 uk shoes ! I am 5ft 10 and take a size 8.

Plenty of women are as tall as me in Britain, and take the same size shoe, but I guess my pint is on genetics ! if I had been born female I would probably have been smaller ?

I am over sized over masculinised female I guess, but no I disagree with you on one count only, I agree with everything accept, no most gg's would never pass as males, look at the f to m trans that don't.

As for is it possible to pass as a woman and still pass as a man ??? yeh actually I think that is possible, but the effort needed to make is heavy !!! makeup skills corsetry ! breast forms ! you name it, sure anythings possible, you could make a line backer look female with enough help !!!

I've seen the pictures of girls going for transformations that I would never believe could look like girls !!! but they do ! but you couldn't do that everyday in your life could you ?
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Nygeel

Quote from: Lorraine Dawe on August 07, 2009, 11:46:36 AM
I am over sized over masculinised female I guess, but no I disagree with you on one count only, I agree with everything accept, no most gg's would never pass as males, look at the f to m trans that don't.

As for is it possible to pass as a woman and still pass as a man ??? yeh actually I think that is possible, but the effort needed to make is heavy !!! makeup skills corsetry ! breast forms ! you name it, sure anythings possible, you could make a line backer look female with enough help !!!

I've seen the pictures of girls going for transformations that I would never believe could look like girls !!! but they do ! but you couldn't do that everyday in your life could you ?
I feel as if it's easier to masculinize a feminine face than it is to feminize a masculine face.
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Lorraine Dawe

Quote from: Nygeel on August 07, 2009, 11:53:14 AM
I feel as if it's easier to masculinize a feminine face than it is to feminize a masculine face.

Doh ! I am going out now for a while, urm seriously when I come back I will give you a page to look at of someone seriously ! Its on a British forum you tell me ?
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FairyGirl

passing is about a lot more than just looks. Sure it helps, but there are short men and there are tall women, feminine looking men and masculine looking women. Confidence in your gender plays a big part as Valerie said, and there's something else I've found plays a big role: mannerisms and body language. Doesn't matter how feminine you look if you walk and talk like a man, because people will notice. The whole concept of passing to me is about blending in, not sticking out like a sore thumb. If you're a gorgeous woman or a handsome man (trans or not) people will also notice, but in that case it is doubly important to act the part for that very reason. I'm 5'11" so fairly tall for a woman, but I find it much easier to pass when I don't try to stick out (no pun intended lol)
Girls rule, boys drool.
If I keep a green bough in my heart, then the singing bird will come.
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Nygeel

Looks are somewhat important for it. I've tried being as confident as possible yet hardly ever pass because of my facial structure and body shape.
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K8

Sure, looks are important, but as FairyGirl said: It is confidence and mannerisms.  I don't think I pass well at all, but I have really relaxed into being Kate, letting myself act as I was told numerous times not to when I was young.  The people who don't know my history almost invariably treat me as a woman because the woman within me is finally coming out. 

I am learning daily how to act more like the woman I have always wanted to be.  My therapist said passing is an internal thing, and as I am more Kate each day I believe her more each day.

Passing is how we carry ourselves and how we interact with others.  Yes, women do have a different interaction among themselves than they do with men.  (And I love it! ;D)

Just my two cents (2 pence?  2 aurur?).

- Kate
Life is a pilgrimage.
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