I know other TS people that seem to be autistic or related. I'm not. I am, on the other hand, crazy. o_0

I did a search on Asperger's in his site, figurred i'd see what had been coverred before dredging it back up. I think i am pretty definatively aspie, probably just trans-curious, though i have alwayse hated the term "bi curious" so maybe i shouldn't use that term, maybe more gender-confused, or gender-uncomfortable.

Hrmmm... i think i got the propper Aspie diagnosis at about the same time as Kaitlyn. I got fired from a job for being unstable and unreliable (due to a couple of meltdowns) and got myself sent to a shrink. She diagnosed me in about 30 minutes after hearing the scenario, but she is a very good shrink and i think she is probably right. Well this is the first diagnosis i remember, i was a bit of a dificult teenager and got dragged to a lot of shrinks, and i remember one of them making me draw as many facial expressions as i could think of, maybe she was looking for AS? I'm probably on that mad/eccentric fine-line, but my brother also has AS/OCD a bit more severely and he has been on-and-off disability benefits for years.

I think when a diagnosis sweaps through as a bit of a fad there are a lot of false positives (non-affected or sub-clinically affected people diagnosed) but also a lot of people who've been miss-diagnosed and miss-medicated for years get the right diagnosis that no one has considerred before. It makes me think of my mum and sister with their gluten intollerance. For 40 years my mum just put up with feeling sick all the time, but then my sister had similar symptoms and jumped on the "gluten free" bandwagon and stopped feeling sick, so my mum copied, and finally, after 40 years she feels ok.

When I was a kid, they thought I might have autism. I also went through therapy for that, which also included trying to get me to play with the male toys, and not the girl toys (which I kept doing). Currently, I don't seem to have the symptoms of autism.

I'm pretty crazy, however. I'm have borderline personality disorder. I'm also OCD and have ADD/ADHD and pretty bad anxiety to boot! It's not cool, and it's not the diagnosis that doctors just gave to me.

And, I'd have to agree with some of the comments where a lot of people are diagnosed with these diseases or people some how think it's cool to have. I say it blows. My life is affected by in greatly, so much that I'm on a disability for it (I've been on it for 10 years). It's not cool at all. I hate it. My life is a chaotic hell that's constantly changing from one minute to the next. You wouldn't wanna be borderline.

I've been through lots of therapy and I've also been hospitalized a few times and spent a year in an mental institution. I get pissed when someone says they're borderline 'cause they some how think it's cool, and use it to just explain themselves being immature or using it as an excuse for something -- usually those people haven't seen a doctor. I've seen way to many doctors.

Borderline makes life very difficult. It's also one of those things that isn't completely understood and in many cases it's not very treatable. Therapy can help some, but it doesn't make it go away. It just helps you try to learn to deal with some of it and make you think about what's going on.

I've met other trans people with mental illnesses, not always the same thing, however. There are a lot of people who aren't trans who have mental illnesses, too. *shrugs*

--natalie

Hi Natalie, how you doin sis. I do pray you are doing as well as can be under the circumstances. Me I only just had three problems, alcoholism, lost everything I owned including friends and family the dog, the cat and the car, even the parakeet. Ya know how that goes, like those old country and western songs. Ended up on the street then fixed that problem by putting the cork on the bottle. Bipolar, got that under control. Transsexuality, fixed that problem as well. Now I just live life as me, one day at a time and I am thankful and grateful for this second chance at life.

Have a wonderful day, see ya.

Cynthia

I have asperger's, so when I came out people thought I was being impulsive again. My mom actually thought I can't want to be a boy and have aspergers at the same time. She thought it was a replacement. But it has nothing to do with I consider them to be completely separate issues.

I've got Asperger's too, and I'm going the other way.  My parents and sibs don't believe in Asperger's though, and while they believe in GID they're convinced that I'm not a "real" TS and am just covering up some other (unspecified) issue with this "transsexual thing".  Honestly, their denial of the Asperger's has hurt me way more than their opinions on my gender.

I've also got aspergers.  It's certainly odd how aspergers seems to be so common within the trans community.  I hope it doesn't get in the way of any diagnoses or on my path to transition, as it doesn't affect me more than... Well, making me highly eccentric, offbeat, somewhat inappropriate in conversation, blatantly lacking the desire to socialize and going through rather crazy obsessions - although that has calmed down slightly.  Though, apparently I go on and on and on about some of my interests to the point of my rambling being painful.  I pity the poor humans that have to suffer my presence.     I know, however, that my identification with male roles - or you could say, my simply male being, has persisted for the span of my life, although my childhood was extremely gender-neutral.  Some people believe the correlation between aspergers and other forms of autism and transsexualism somehow invalidates said transsexualism, but I know this is certainly not the case.

Now, when I was young, my symptoms were rather intense.  I'm not just the "shy, awkward" type that diagnoses themselves with autism automatically.  It is difficult to know whether those be simply traits due to some sort of trauma in the past, genes... Or just how you are as a person for whatever reason, not due to any specific "disorder".

Oh, how I love "disorders"... They could categorize me in just a few "symptoms"...

In any case, as a child I was almost neurotic at times.  If I wasn't babbling unceasingly, I was making inappropriate comments that would either set people off or hurt them deeply, although I didn't understand (and don't often understand) why.  I also reacted extremely strongly to changed plans, let downs, or punishments.  Crying, screaming, throwing things - even violence.  I don't remember much of that.  It has probably faded into "repressed memory" - lost in my subconscious, like Freud would argue.  I don't doubt it.  All of that seems like it happened to a very different little child.  When I was particularly young, everything scared me.  Everything set me off.  Sounds, sights, sensations, tastes.  I was a bomb ready to go off if a truck went down the street, if the public toilets were loud, if I was in a bright room or if some high energy event were occurring.  I developed panic disorder when I was 8 - not fun.  Particularly when your social fears escalate dramatically because you're petrified of having a panic attack in public, you're a little kid and you're submerged in a huge city and a financial crisis.  Add early puberty into the mix and you have the makings of a healthy childhood.   

I like to think these events, difficult as they were, just shaped me into a far more rational, level-headed person.  I think clearly, I make decisions with utmost care, I am always in control.  Thus I doubt anything should be said to obscure my judgment enough to make my decision to transition somehow invalid or untrustworthy.  And while many people are indeed quick to diagnose aspergers, I'm really unsure of what else could have covered all that I suffered through as a child.

Mind you, I went through extensive therapy.  Group therapy with young children, as well.  I spent so many years in therapy, I can hardly recount any but the least painful sessions.  And that is why I am somewhat sane.   

maybe whatever genetic of developmental effects that cause asperger's also tend to cause a brain/body missmatch for gender?

or maybe asperger's can reduce the ability to cope with a slight mind/body missmatch that someone NT could better deal with?

given gender is largely cultural/social and asperger's is a disorder of social functioning maybe asperger's syndrome can cause or exacerbate GID in some cases?

Quote from: metal angel on August 08, 2009, 04:45:55 AM
maybe whatever genetic of developmental effects that cause asperger's also tend to cause a brain/body missmatch for gender?

or maybe asperger's can reduce the ability to cope with a slight mind/body missmatch that someone NT could better deal with?

given gender is largely cultural/social and asperger's is a disorder of social functioning maybe asperger's syndrome can cause or exacerbate GID in some cases?

I edited my post quite a lot, so whether you were referring to it or not is beyond me, but I believe I will answer.

I'm no professional, although this subject fascinates me to no end and would be great to look into at a greater depth.  However, I do think aspergers, or some other condition on the autism spectrum, could certainly exacerbate feelings of gender dysphoria.  It is believed now that far more people are intersexed than previously thought, although likely in such minute and subtle ways, detection is not always immediate, or easy.  There are far more people with gender dysphoric feelings than there are transitioning people.  I think, in some cases, aspergers may increase these feelings - or perhaps decrease the pressure to conform to society's norms - just enough to cause the individual to seek transition.  That doesn't necessarily mean, in the latter case, that the individual suffers more profoundly from GID than they would minus the aspergers - but it can infer a greater likelihood for transition, perhaps.

Or maybe they are just two genes that like to hold hands.

It would be worth looking into.

I'm getting way oput of my depth here, but i'd think that there would be quite a few of the same genes involved.

Though i think for GID the environmental effects in the womb are a pretty big factor as well, so it would be a egenetic efefct from the mother.

Both AS and GID are conditions involving an unusual or "wiring" of the brain, and both are pollygenec (not just one gene) and i am think there is probably a faior bit of overlap between them... man, now i kinda want to do my PhD (i'm looking for a PhD project in genetics) on developmental neurobiology... i should really e-mail that lab... 

Did a quick google search of the symptoms: http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/autism-symptoms

I was always incredibly shy. I wouldn't talk to people very much at all until I hit my mid-teens, now I've likely lost the ability to shut up. Never really had any friends, two in 5th grade but I moved. After that I spent my time reading obsessively. Now I've got a few people.

When I was younger I was very sensitive. Now I lack empathy, but that's attributed to my general lack of emotion and enthusiasm for most things. Did obsess with video games, still do although I wouldn't consider myself great or anything. Not so much with routines though, and didn't repeat things over and over. I like pieces. Always have been one for the toys with the most parts. Toys with very limited possibilities just get boring too fast. I like to collect things.

Maybe antisocial like at autistic child (at least a social reject) but certainly not particularly fascinating. Asperger's and autism both seem to cause social awkwardness so I can relate to that. Reading stories of transsexuals' experiences, they all seem to have trouble being social though don't they (at least as a child.)

SilverFang

for anyone who'd interested i found this on the web a while ago, it measures autisticness, if you are above 25 it is probable you have asperger's syndrome or a related syndrome, if you are below 25 you are probably a boring old neurotypical.
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html

it's on a none-too-academic site, but i checked out where they nicked it from and it seems quite legit
The autism-spectrum quotient (AQ): evidence from Asperger syndrome/high-functioning autism, males and females, scientists and mathematicians.Baron-Cohen S, Wheelwright S, Skinner R, Martin J, Clubley E.
J Autism Dev Disord. 2001 Feb;31(1):5-17.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11439754?ordinalpos=8&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

i did a look round for any published studies on gender identity disorder and asperger's syndrome, there are a few case reports but no population studies... i may have just thought of a PhD project for myself...

WOW what an intriguing thread. I don't know if I am autistic or not. I have never been diagnosed, but then other than one session with a therapist (last week) and no doctor visit (other than 3 minor injuries) for check-ups etc since 1975, there really has been no opportunity for anyone to delve into my mind to see, what someone in another thread described as, my freakish perversions.

So, reading what everyone has posted here, I can relate to a lot of these things, I am somewhat compulsive, very anti-social, I don't have problems with eye contact or 'reading' faces either in detail or completely. I have always had an aversion to loud noises and have always been very introverted (actually had to repeat kindergarten because I refused to talk to the teacher, didn't say more than one word all year), and I guess being rather stubborn goes along with that  . What I found most intriguing was Cindy's post. Up until 10 minutes ago, I had never given much thought to whether I thought others felt the same psychic connections as me. I have always had a difficult time going to public places with a lot of people - like the mall - because it was like having every single damned person in that mall crammed into my head, I would literally get headaches from the noise reverberating through my brain. I had spent several years actually doing channeled (psychic) readings for people and had been told that I was very gifted. I lost confidence in that once I found out that so many were fakes and that there was really no special spiritual power/gift to it, it was just simply being able to focus on a single mind and single thought path and anyone could do that (I thought up till ten minutes ago). I have always been the one who sits away from the gathering and listens intently to what everyone is saying. I still have a hard time following a single conversational thread, because my mind is constantly being pulled to any sound, any voice around me. I had never thought of it as any kind of psychological condition, never knew it was a 'problem'.

Cindy, you spoke of grounding to keep you focused. I have always found the woods or the beach (when deserted) to be the only place I could go to 'recharge', to quiet my mind and get the noise out, and relax. I had always just attributed it to the natural energy among the trees, that organic energy, the Chi. I guess it may be more that there is just no one there to get in my head.

I'm sure I came no where near answering the question at hand, but I think I have been given a lot of questions to ponder about myself, I have learned a great deal from all of you here this morning. Thank you so much. 

Deanna

I tried that test metal angel. scored a 39. never diagnosed as aspergers or autistic.

it's only designed as a rogh guide, if none of the characteristics are causing you significant trouble then it doesn't count as a clinical diagnosis.

kind of if someone walks into shrinks office with an anxiety disorder that's something they can use to decide whether asperger's is the likely underlying condition to the anxiety

if you score 20-30 i think that just makes you a geek, i know a gaggle of science nerde and they all got somehwere in the 20s.

if you score above 30 you're certainly asperger-like or autistic-spectrum but if you don't have any actual trouble from it it's not an autistic spectrum disorder.

Like people varry in height and there is pleantly of normal variation which is no problem, lots of rally short and really tall people who hasve no problem with it, but- for example - if you are unusually short AND it causes trouble for you that could be viewed as a medical condition requiring treatment with growth hormone or something similar.

or just not diagnosed

Meh, I got 35. I'm not autistic, I'm just socially inept.

I scored a 44, if that means anything.

hmm.  32.  there seems to be a trend.  maybe TSs are just predisposed to autistic type behavior.

yeah it's just a meausre of "auitisticness", a diagnosis means that:

1. you have these traits to qa stong degree
2. they are causing you trouble
3. there is no broader alternative explanation

just because someone has autistic characteristics doesn't mean they are autistic, a lot of the scuience and maths geneuses they tested scorred very high but wouldn't count as disabled or ill.

My view is that the autistic spectrum is part of the normal variation of humanity, but extreme cases can be pathological depending on the environment they have to fit into. In the most extreme cases full-on autistic peiople have no language skills and no general life skills (can't tie their shoes etc.).

Interestingly - this propertly of autisticness is heritable (if your family has a high level of it you are more likely to) so if you breed two maths nerds you are more likely to get an auitistic child.

Other conditions - such as the depression and anxiety caused by GID - could also cause a high level of "autisticness" transiently, but if they dissapear when the other conditon is well managed - e.g. by transition - then it wouldn't be regarded as asperger's syndrome or autism.

But given the causes of variation along the autistic pspectrum are unclear it really only IS a set of symptoms and behaviours, so there is no reason why cyou couldn't define autistic traits assoctated with GID as asperger's syndrome? I'm not exactly sure what the DSM says though, i think the syndromes of autism and asperger's syndrome are defined only as being those conditions if there is no competeing diagnosis.

But, then again, i'm not sure how well Asperger's really should be excluded by the symptoms disapearing when the other condition (such as GID) is managed. Conditions like Asperger's syndrome and OCD are exacerbated greatly by stress. So one would think that removing a stress - like a boduy from a missmatched gender - would reduce the effect of true asperger's as well. but i'm not sure if there really is one cohesive syndrome you could call asperger's... the definition is really slippery.

Incase anyone is interested, i scorred 42 and do have a diagnosis of asperger's syndrome. I've alwayse been a bit odd, when i got dismissed from an job for being unstable i sent myself to a shrink, and that's what she decided it was, it seems to fit.