Susan's Place Logo

News:

According to Google Analytics 25,259,719 users made visits accounting for 140,758,117 Pageviews since December 2006

Main Menu

Political Leanings...

Started by Michelle., May 26, 2009, 10:57:14 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Regardless of "Party" or Country. Which best describes your political views?

Social Liberal/Fiscal Liberal
12 (38.7%)
Social Conservative/Fiscal Liberal
1 (3.2%)
Social Liberal/Fiscal Conservative
18 (58.1%)
Social Conservative/Fiscal Conservative
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 13

Michelle.

Quote from: tekla on August 06, 2009, 11:28:11 PM
Yeah, it's Obama's fault.

On this date in history...
The Democrat/left-leaning/Obama loving side of the board begins to wake up to reality. ;D
  •  

tekla

I'm blaming Obama for World War I today.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
  •  

Michelle.

Y'all still got your heads partially in the sand, you thought this post was going to place your heads elsewhere.

Obama is obviously responsible for the fall of the Roman Empire, the actual Roman Empire. Not the so-called "Holy" one.

ALL HAIL BARACK!!!
  •  

tekla

And hey, I'm not 'left leaning' I'm all the way over there.  I'm the one yelling "Hey dillweed, elections have consequences."
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
  •  

Michelle.

HA HA HA HA HA...

I have a health care take-over reform protest to fund/organize/script.

The best personal benefit to me... frequent flyer miles. The worst, so many damn flights!!
  •  

tekla

Oh flying is so horrible anymore I just can't stand to do it - take off your shoes, you can't carry anything on and if I check my tools I can bet they will not be there when I land.  Give me the train, even late, its ever so much more pleasant and civilized.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
  •  

Britney_413

A couple of points here. First, as Tekla's comments on guns in the U.S., four police officers killed is tragic especially when it is in one city within a year but it still doesn't equate to "bodies piling up on the streets" or a "bloodbath." 99.9% of the time, the general public goes about their business without dealing with violent criminals. Also, California bans by law AK-47 rifles. That means that the criminal already broke gun laws before he committed murder. Like those gun laws did any good in your state. Here in Arizona, anyone who is not federally prohibited from buying a gun (felons, mentally ill, etc.) can purchase an AK-47 from a gun shop and leave with it that very day, no permit, no registration required. Guess how many shooting rampages this state has had recently? Zero.

Criminals start to realize that when laws make it easy for law-abiding citizens to carry that the stakes go up for them. If someone walks into a restaurant anywhere in Arizona to shoot up the place, chances are several other patrons will also be carrying guns and they will quickly put an end to the mayhem just barely after it starts. In California, where nobody can get a concealed carry permit unless they are very well connected and where virtually any type of useful firearm is illegal as they consider them "assault weapons," Californians can be sure that in public places that the only people carrying guns are criminals.

It may be true that gun control may work better in countries that haven't had guns around for a long time. In this country, however, there are hundreds of millions of guns in circulation and the last time I checked statistics, there are over 80 million current American gun owners. You liberals cannot take away our guns no matter how hard you try. Additionally, it is in our Constitution that we have the right to keep and bear arms and the Supreme Court has ruled on this as well. If the government tried to ban firearms, the first house they knock on will be the next Waco, TX incident. Regardless, it is common sense that a free sovereign individual has the human right to self-defense and they have the right to protect their friends, family, loved ones, and innocents from harm. The Supreme Court has also ruled that law enforcement is under no obligation to protect you from criminals. That responsibility is yours.

Second, let's take a look at some comments here on Obama. While he hasn't been in office that long, most of his ideas and plans are very disturbing and are unconstitutional. His economic bailout plan for the most part has used our tax dollars to bail out failing businesses. Instead, he should let the businesses fail. They started the mess and they should pay the consequences. Instead, he could have used all of this tax money to go directly back to the people similar to Bush's $300-$600 checks. The sheer size of the bailout plan could have allowed much larger checks to go out such as in the $2,000-$5,000 range. This would stimulate the economy because consumers would spend and thereby help businesses who were having trouble, and they could pay back some of their credit card and other debts helping the banks become more solvent again. I also don't like these vouchers giving people credit to buy homes or cars. People need to understand that nothing is free. If you go and buy a car and get a $4,500 credit from the government, that means that part of MY paycheck is paying for YOUR car. That is socialism and it is stealing. Responsible people should not have to pay for irresponsible people's shortcomings.

He also has a man named John Holdren as the Department of Science and Technology chair. This man co-authored a book in the 70s promoting forced abortions, sterilization, and surgeries to control the world's population. Obama's healthcare plan includes mandatory signups and fines for people who don't register. He also supports mandatory community service for youths and young adults as part of the "Give Act." Just look at this man's endless grins and smug looks. He is an elitist who believes that you don't know what is best for you but that he sure does.

I have never asked for a freaking handout and never will. I would like to get a boob job some day and SRS may eventually be in my plans. But I will not stand in a government office and wait for their approval to do those things. I determine my life, not them. I can't afford those things now but I would sure save enough money to pay for those surgeries myself before I'd go living off the government dole. Nobody should be required to pay for anyone else's problems. I don't ask for handouts and likewise nobody should be asking me to take care of them. Everytime a person appeals to the government to take care of a personal problem, they are relying on other people to take care of them instead of doing it themselves. It is literally sacrificing freedom for the sake of a little bit of security. Obama may not publically announce it but it seems obvious that he desires to take over every aspect of our lives where individual liberty is a concept of the past. Likewise, anyone who comes knocking on my door to require me to turn in guns or other possessions that I had legally obtained, forces medical testing or treatment on me without my consent, or requires me to perform labor (slavery), it will be the last door they knock on. Enough said.
  •  

LordKAT

  •  

lisagurl

QuoteEnough said.

Read "Theory of Justice " By John Rawls
  •  

tekla

Actually, the SC has ruled no such thing, but going back as far as 1840s ruled that the States have the ability to regulate weapons. The 2nd Amendment is not about the people totin' guns but about the rights of the States (the Constitution was a compact between the States and enacted by the States) to have a militia, which is how Iowa gets a fighter wing in case Nebraska decides to attack it with something other than the Big Red football team.

Obama's bail out of the financial institutions is an inherited deal, seems to me that Bush passed it to begin with, right?  And there was no way that any sane, senescent person was going to let the financial system of America fail on the scale that it was failing.  Perhaps all we're doing is slowing it down, but a slow crash is better than a fast one.  Sad to say, I don't think they had much of an option there and those bills passed with a huge bi-partisan level of support, so you can't blame it all on him.

Likewise, I don't see where its in the national interest to let our largest manufacturing industries turn into so much scrap metal, we need them for several reasons, not the least of which is defense. So, they have some middle class new car deal, at least those people are getting something for their tax dollars.  Its not a bad idea to get older cars off the road, if that's what's happening, and I'm not sure it is, but it is getting cars sold, and in turn gets more cars made, and though I'm not exactly thrilled - I'd much rather see them turning out mass transit, high speed mag-lev trains and other innovations that we are sorely lacking in - I do see a national need in making sure these facilities are kept in production.

And anyone who supported the Bush II term has a lot of damn gall taking about the executive branch acting in an unconstitutional manner. 

If the government tried to ban firearms, the first house they knock on will be the next Waco, TX incident.
Great analogy there, almost as good as comparing the death by gun figures to a war zone.  So, how did it turn out in Waco?  Did the good people in the Branch Davidian cult win?
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
  •  

daisybelle

Quote from: Nichole on August 07, 2009, 09:09:11 AM
Yeah, we all see now that Obama is to blame for sky-rocketed healthcare costs, the war and "recovery" in Iraq and pretty much everything else that's occurred in the world since, O, hell, let's just say 1917 when the German General Staff sent Lenin from Zuerich to St. Petersburg in a sealed train. :laugh:

O, my, how gloriously the sunlight beams!

Wrong yet again...  No Clinton is more to blame I believe....

In 1994 I paid around $200 a month for health insurance as a self paid insurer.   By 1999 under CLinton that price had risen to $975 a month.   That is an increase of 488%.    Under Bush, it actually dropped a little.  I know it is still expensive, but who should I point the finger at?

Note $975 a month is $11700 a year.   So as a resourceful  Information Technology consultant,  if I made the following:

Salary                           85000
Employer Paid FICA               5270    -- Self emplyed people pay as the double ( once as the Employer and as the Employee)
Employee Paid FICA   5270
Medicare                             2465
Unemployment                2295
Health Insurance              15300
FIT                           17056
   
Total of withholdings & health   47656

What is left over   37344

Do we really want our taxes & health to be in excess of 50%?

D

  •  

lisagurl

QuoteDo we really want our taxes & health to be in excess of 50%?

During that time I made twice as much as you and paid less than half of what you paid. I think you need a better tax accountant.
  •  

daisybelle

Quote from: tekla on August 09, 2009, 01:42:31 PM
Actually, the SC has ruled no such thing, but going back as far as 1840s ruled that the States have the ability to regulate weapons. The 2nd Amendment is not about the people totin' guns but about the rights of the States (the Constitution was a compact between the States and enacted by the States) to have a militia, which is how Iowa gets a fighter wing in case Nebraska decides to attack it with something other than the Big Red football team.

Obama's bail out of the financial institutions is an inherited deal, seems to me that Bush passed it to begin with, right?  And there was no way that any sane, senescent person was going to let the financial system of America fail on the scale that it was failing.  Perhaps all we're doing is slowing it down, but a slow crash is better than a fast one.  Sad to say, I don't think they had much of an option there and those bills passed with a huge bi-partisan level of support, so you can't blame it all on him.

Likewise, I don't see where its in the national interest to let our largest manufacturing industries turn into so much scrap metal, we need them for several reasons, not the least of which is defense. So, they have some middle class new car deal, at least those people are getting something for their tax dollars.  Its not a bad idea to get older cars off the road, if that's what's happening, and I'm not sure it is, but it is getting cars sold, and in turn gets more cars made, and though I'm not exactly thrilled - I'd much rather see them turning out mass transit, high speed mag-lev trains and other innovations that we are sorely lacking in - I do see a national need in making sure these facilities are kept in production.

And anyone who supported the Bush II term has a lot of damn gall taking about the executive branch acting in an unconstitutional manner. 

If the government tried to ban firearms, the first house they knock on will be the next Waco, TX incident.
Great analogy there, almost as good as comparing the death by gun figures to a war zone.  So, how did it turn out in Waco?  Did the good people in the Branch Davidian cult win?

The financial situation for Sub-Prime mortgages started under Clinton.

The Branch Davidian affair was under Clinton.

Osama's capture or takeout was failed under CLinton - multiple times.

I will be the first to admit we sacrificed some freedoms under Bush, but only as to protect our country as a whole.  What is the value of the lives saved from subsequent attacks after September 11 2001?   Of those freedoms can you specifically name one that impacted the average US citizen as a whole?

D

Britney -- RIGHT ON!!!  :icon_dance: :icon_dance: :icon_dance: :icon_dance: :icon_dance: :icon_dance:



Post Merge: August 10, 2009, 02:22:35 PM

Quote from: lisagurl on August 10, 2009, 02:08:29 PM
During that time I made twice as much as you and paid less than half of what you paid. I think you need a better tax accountant.

Oh but there were deductions.  But isn't that kind of the point....  If I deduct everything possible, and I end up paying a significant amount less, then is that fair?   Is it fair because I have the ability to pay for deductions to say only end up paying $5000 total in taxes?  Note I would still have to pay the health amount.

D
  •  

lisagurl

QuoteIf I deduct everything possible, and I end up paying a significant amount less, then is that fair?

Yes, the government does not have the power to control your life but it does reward and punish people through taxes for not living and having the life style they expect. Big business lobbies the law makers to give them the advantage. That is the main reason for high cost of health care and insurance. It is not parties but the whole of congress that feeds from the corporate trough. Unless we control the way campaigns are funded we will be taken to the cleaners by big business.
  •  

Britney_413

tekla:

QuoteActually, the SC has ruled no such thing, but going back as far as 1840s ruled that the States have the ability to regulate weapons.

Yes, they did:

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/jun/26/nation/na-scotus27

Just a bit over a year ago, a case was brought to the U.S. Supreme Court over D.C.'s handgun ban. The court ruled that the 2nd Amendment refers to the people, not a state militia. The ruling now requires that D.C. allows people to keep handguns in their home and also struck down a law requiring trigger locks on guns or that they remain disassembled while in the home. I expect that similar challenges will be filed in Chicago, IL as well. Regardless of the Federal ruling, the state I live in (Arizona) also has it in our own state constitution that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

The ruling left the door open to regulate weapons. Obviously, there is a difference between regulating weapons and outright banning them. Without proper checks and balances on the government, however, so-called regulation can in turn translate into banning. Many counties in New York and California will not issue concealed carry permits to anyone except the wealthy, famous, and most connected. As these are "may issue" states leaving it up to the discretion of judges or police chiefs, in practice those judges can allow no one to have a permit even though the law provides a procedure for getting one. More states have adopted "shall issue" to avoid this problem. That means that as long as anybody passes the requirements which usually consist of a training class, a background check, and fingerprints, the permit is issued. This process prevents a whole lot of unnecessary discrimination (i.e. your personal appearance could get you denied a permit).

It is therefore important that any regulation the government puts on what individuals can and cannot own or how they can or cannot utilize what they own be done in a fair manner. This article quoted a statement from one of the opposing court justices and Obama also had a similar statement at one time demonstrating an elitist attitude towards guns. The phrase used here is "keeping guns out of crime-ridden urban areas." This is an example of where government regulation would be inherently biased against the poor and minorities.

Wealthy people live in suburbs where they can afford gated lots, sophisticated alarm systems, armed guards, and can count on a more active and responsive police department. These areas are low-crime anyway for the most part so they don't necessarily need a lot of guns anyway when they have all of these other safeguards. Common sense says that if a person lives in a "crime-infested urban area" the first thing they need is a gun. They don't have the privilege of police being there on a minute's notice, they can't trust their neighbors (who are probably criminals themselves), and there is no way they could afford guards or alarm systems that wealthy people could. They could probably afford a cheap gun, however.

This is why I have always felt that the "gun control" mentality really isn't about guns at all, it is about control. If it was about guns, they would control them equally meaning that if a poor person couldn't have one on the south side, then a rich person in the foothills also couldn't have an armed bodyguard. As long as these people support this double standard, it proves that the real goal is control over individual freedom. They can then replace "gun" with "gold" or "car" or "sex" and come up with another set of reasons why such and such should now be controlled and regulated.
  •  

assaultingthepanopticon

Just to answer the initial question...

I did not vote in the poll.  The words have no meaning except in context.

I strive to be an Odonian, even if Odonianism is incompatible with reality -- for an explanation, try Ursula K. LeGuin, The Dispossessed.  Down With Profiteers!
  •  

lisagurl

Reality will catchup to you some day.
  •  

gennee

Quote from: lisagurl on May 31, 2009, 11:11:41 AM
Both parties are corporate supporters. It seems humans come second. We as a world population can not support corporations and the consumption life style. It is unfair to labor and promotes increases in population that will out strip resources. Free trade is only possible when the is a level playing field. That means equal wages and benefits for equal work. You also need equal working conditions and environment rules. Other wise it is a matter of who is willing to be a slave under the poorest conditions. The earth cannot possibly support 6.7 billion people living and using resources like the average American.

It is a big problem, Lisa. What's needed is a genuine third party that puts people FIRST. Also need a media that gets no corporate backing or government funding.

Gennee
Be who you are.
Make a difference by being a difference.   :)

Blog: www.difecta.blogspot.com
  •  

Miniar

If such a party is founded, then few will hear of it, because even printing out local fliers from your personal printer costs money...



"Everyone who has ever built anywhere a new heaven first found the power thereto in his own hell" - Nietzsche
  •  

bigrift

My personal leanings politically are hardcore liberal/neo-conservative (liberal in civil rights and very collectivist economically), but in my actual political beliefs I am very much and independent moderate. I think the presidential candidate I liked the best was Mitt Romney, at least in retrospect. But I don't trust either party at all, Democrat or Republican. I see both as being major threats to our freedoms, but in different ways. And all politicians are F***wads in my opinion.

Speaking of guns, while I personally hate guns, I do NOT want that right taken away. Biggest reason, I don't like the Bill of Rights getting f***ed with. But I don't see guns being taken away as solving anything, especially in the short term. (Please don't take this as me being callous. I love EVERYONE, and want no harm to come to them in anyway) It seems the people that are hurt most by guns are those that are doing the hurting to others who themselves are hurting others, mostly criminals, so it seems the only person that would be hurt by taking them away is those who take care of them. Criminals aren't going to get rid of their guns, and it just creates a new black market for their sale. If we could get rid of guns entirely, super, but this doesn't seem likely.
And in my opinion, the biggest threat to gun rights comes from the "right". Imagine the day when in order to get a gun you have to "prove" your patriotism to "America", because "un-American people don't deserve constitutional rights anyways". So, fascism could be instated, and they wouldn't have to worry about getting rid of guns, because the people with the guns would be for the fascist government anyways. But people on the right would never see such a scenario, because they have a tendency to be unintelligent rednecks...(and people on the left are crazy tree hugging hippies).
  •