Hi,
I'm wondering if there are any of you who take hormones but doesn't fully transition in real life. I'm talking about the case when you take hormones just because they make you feel much better, but in your environment you're still officially on your original gender (sort of, like a feminine guy or a masculine woman)
Is it possible at all?

Hi DominiQ,

What you are describing is possible, up to a certain point.  After a period of time on hormones, the changes become permanent (secondary sex characteristics begin to change dramatically after a few months, depending on your age), and it's not very easy to remain in your "original" gender.  It really is best to be sure you really want to do this before beginning HRT, because eventually there's no turning back.  HRT should also be undertaken under proper medical supervision, as self medication is neither safe nor condoned here at Susan's.

It depends on which hormone you mean. For a female-bodied person taking testosterone, "living in the middle" would not be possible for very long because testosterone has dramatic tangible effects on the body (facial hair growth and voice deepening, for example). It would be difficult for a 6-months-on-T FTM to live part-time as a female while explaining why "she" has 5-o-clock shadow and a male voice. It's not impossible (I think Dennis was on T for 8 months or so before becoming full time) , but it's impractical.

On the other hand, estrogen's effects on a male-bodied person are more discrete, so an MTF might be able to take estrogen and androgen-blockers for quite some time without going full-time - but not forever. After a year or two, people would definitely wonder why this "guy" is so unbelievably feminine. True, they'd probably just buy into the "flamer" stereotype and label "him" as a very effeminate homosexual, but what MTF would want to be percieved as a gay man for the rest of her life?

If you do not want to transition, then you should not take hormones. The human body was not meant to be on both estrogen and testosterone for the majority of a human lifespan.

This is what I found on transsexual.org, and it would suit me very well:

QuoteA transgendered individual may choose to partially undergo transition only, enjoying a 'half-way' or 'alternative' gender expression. Here too, the use of hormones, or even limited surgery, can bring happiness and contentment.

There is no requirement to become absolutely male, or absolutely female.

Are there any people living in the middle?

     I have been on hrt, anti-androgens, and have had my facial hair removed, while continuing to work in a very male dominant industry.  Hrt for 4.5 years.  Doing so has ALLOWED me to remain employed at my job without losing it.  I have never been overly manly, either in demeanor or looks.  Hrt, alone, won't make you look that dramatically different. I groom long hair metrosexual, but still male.  I avoid tight shirts and when engaged in "pissing" contests I have been glad that my bluff hasn't been called-because I'd lose the length contest.
    I am an older transitioner.  My wife of 25 years prefers my female side, and my family all know.  The simple fact is that I make enough money that I am willing to move forward in a slow, measured way without blowing it.  It took me a long time to get up to the middle of the heap, making the medium bucks. 
     I have consistently attended group therapy and have watched those attempting transition get fired and their family and support collapse. I do what I can to keep me sane while plotting my ultimate triumph, batman...Oh, wait, sorry, started with the daydreaming again. 

Quote from: DominiQ on August 08, 2009, 11:43:56 AM
This is what I found on transsexual.org, and it would suit me very well:

QuoteA transgendered individual may choose to partially undergo transition only, enjoying a 'half-way' or 'alternative' gender expression. Here too, the use of hormones, or even limited surgery, can bring happiness and contentment.

There is no requirement to become absolutely male, or absolutely female.

Are there any people living in the middle?

What is described on ts.org is possible, but at some point a compromise has to be made.  Long-term HRT without surgical intervention does take it's toll on the body; To give you an example, some MtF individuals (myself included) have been on hormones, and decided to have what's called an Orchiectomy, or castration, in which the testes are removed from the body.  As petzjazz said, the human body was only designed for one hormone.  After my Orchi, I stopped taking anti-androgens, as they were no longer needed.  This reduces the chance of liver damage from HRT, and I only take estrogen now.  However, I live as a woman and have all my records state me as female now.

This is what I mean by compromise.  At some point, you will need to make a choice to either stop taking hormones, or undergo some kind of procedure (i.e. Orchi) to reduce the chance of harming your body (i.e. liver, kidney's, etc.).  You can live in the middle, but there are health risks to consider, and all of this should be done under medical supervision.

See, I did E (estrogen) for some small periods of time and small doses, but it had a strong effect on the way I feel, all of it plain wonder to me, but noticeable to the outside. Also I developed a bit of breast, and finally I got scared of loosing my job and realized this was going to bring consequences (like what you're saying, Fae and petzjazz) - so I left that game. Now I'm waiting for a consultation to consider my options more seriously.
I think my mind is so transgendered... I mean, I'm so happy on E... life is amazing and I feel normal, it's crazy. No alcohol nor even drugs come close to such a perfect state of the mind, calmness and motivation. Each day on E was like being on holidays and work seemed a bless, but I think making a full transition is neither really my goal these days (since i just want to be myself), neither fully achievable (most transitions from this age, 30, are not passable), and therefore very disrupting to my current life situation.
I'd be happy if I could live as an androgynous person in the meanwhile, taking the pill obviously, leaving more serious decisions for later, like Cindy does it. I'm on my way of being an independent person working in the IT sector so I guess there's a chance.
It's just I feel I'm completely wasting my life at the moment...
Anyway gals, all of your feedback is precious and wise, and please keep it coming.

I sure seem to post my life story everywhere on this website.

I took finasteride for a year as propecia, then I took dutasteride (avodart) for about 15 months, then doubled the dose and got on a small dose of spiro. I've been growing boobs from that.

I've had extensive hair removal. I have virtually no dark hairs left on my face. I pass more frequently as a woman despite spending most of my time with my male name visible on my chest due to my job. Frumpy days, hair up days, hair down days, glasses on, glasses off, big baggy mens' slacks, tight womens' slacks, even using my natural voice I often pass.


The problem is that, as Fae says, you can tax your body. Your body needs one hormone primarily. Not both, and not neither. I am going to try a small amount of estrogen to see what it does for me because I know my tanks are real low at this point and there are risks from that.

I find myself wondering how long I could keep that up, as spiro+AA is feminizing my facial fat from what I can see. Not dramatically, but it's there. It's only been about 5 or 6 months (I forget) and considering I'm not supplementing E's yet... if I start taking E, will I be able to pass as a boy come spring? At what point do you make huge decisions, when do you have to make choices... I'm not sure.

I'm someone who is crippled by indecision and seem to have a pathological obsession with picking the most difficult path available to me. I've got so many questions and insecurities regarding moving forward, that I figure that I *HAVE* to make myself move forwards, to a least get the experience to know if it feels right or wrong.

So far everything has felt increasingly right.




The downside of living in the middle is that there isn't really a grey area. People have to classify you as either male or female, and as such it is incredibly difficult going between perceptions. Usually people simply omit the pronoun out of courtesy. But it makes some interactions very awkward and you always have to be aware of how people perceive you.

Quote from: Dominiq on August 09, 2009, 04:31:31 AM
I think making a full transition is neither really my goal these days (since i just want to be myself), neither fully achievable (most transitions from this age, 30, are not passable), and therefore very disrupting to my current life situation.

Each of us has to decide what is best for our own happiness and current life situations.  But I will say, just because you are 30 does not mean you wouldn't pass if you did transition.  Many of the ladies on this site are that age, or older, and are very beautiful women, inside and out.  Hormones do wondrous things.  Don't sell yourself short hun, but do what is best for YOU, and no one else.

Fae, thanks so much, you're right about what you say, but there's some concern about the "do what is best for YOU" sentence. From my previous relationship, and although living in another country, I've got a pair of kids, who simply are in my heart all the time. They are the only reason I haven't jumped onto a more active way of ->-bleeped-<-. I simply won't do anything that does hurt them, no matter how *insanely* it is hurting me.

Autumn,
you're an interesting girl ;-) How did you feel the lack of T affected your way of perceiving "the outside", relationships, career... They say T is your drive and ambition, what are your thoughts?
And... have you ever had a break in those couple of years from your T-blockers?

Love,

D

I  certainly do not think being only 30yrs old makes it not possible for a person to be "passable".  It is mostly based on personal feelings of "one's self" and genetics.  Imo, i would not take a male nor a female hormone if i werent ready or not know if i were ever going to transition, but that is me.  I have known TG's to take even the MTF dosaging for hrt and stay in a non physical state, meaning no FFS or even partial GRS.  If i were to have stayed in a non transitioning state and wanted to be somewhat more fem.  I would prob be on a low dosage of estradiol valerate and prob at least 50mg of spiro and have hair removal done except of certain areas of the genitalia.  I fully understand that ppl have different situations and circumstances that will hamper their transitioning, and there are also some TG's that want to perform in both capacities, but i would tend to make an assumption that they are bi more so than TG depending on what their desire for the  opposite sex would be.   There are so many variables though that it is hard to explain without knowing the person on a more personal level.  If you are hampering your "self" by not transitioning, one day you may look back with regret.  30 is still a young age to transition.  I know of TG's transitioning at 60, so its not really  an age factor imo, until you can not physically go thru the physical part (meaning  hrt/GRS).  There are ways around children, but work may or could pose a prob if it is a very conservative employer.  I just talked to a MTF that was let go after she transitioned and has had a difficult time finding the same level in her career. 

Between my shifting feelings and critical self perception of transition I guess I could vouch for a somewhat in the middle living.  I don't know if I would consider it that fully since still pretty much everyone knew me as a male still then and people knew but just wouldn't really bring it up too often since we had the discussion about everything already.

My first spurt of transition was about for 8 months on HRT, and I wouldn't say I passed at that time, but I also didn't put much effort into my transition figuring it would just work itself out.  I was probably going on month nine when I decided to discontinue HRT for the first time because of some instances that were out of my control at that time. 

Later I went through random intervals of HRT on and off for about 4 months or so.  Is that what you were sort of thinking of when saying living in the middle?  I realize that it probably wasn't that long of course, and I remember hearing about people who have been on HRT for like three years before going FT and stuff.  Really I think it's just a personal think of your comfort level and support level.

I was nineteen when I started HRT now still at twenty-one I'm waiting to finish college before going FT because I don't want it to hurt any of my grades if I have some bigot teacher that decides they don't like me.  Plus, I have two new roommate additions this year who I haven't told, so I figure I'd just save the hassle and just do it after college.  It's only June of 10 so.  Even then though, I still might be "living in the middle" by your standards. 

Quote from: Dominiq on August 08, 2009, 11:43:56 AM
This is what I found on transsexual.org, and it would suit me very well:

Are there any people living in the middle?

Im thinking about it. I want to take hormones but I dunno. :/ Im kinda stuck right now

Quote from: shanetastic on August 13, 2009, 07:13:25 PM
My first spurt of transition was about for 8 months on HRT

I guess that was self medication... did you grow any breasts?
I had much less than that 8 months and the gynecomastia I already had got more noticeable... That's the main reason I stopped... because it was getting me into a point of no return.

Good luck with your college, I hope it proves a good environment to answer your questions about your gender.

Quote from: Dominiq on August 07, 2009, 01:25:39 PM
....... when you take hormones just because they make you feel much better, but in your environment you're still officially on your original gender

.......
Is it possible at all?

How do you spell relief?

Is it possible at all??
Sure it is.....that's how I became the woman I am today, by just taking hrt on a limited basis to feel better.  When you feel better, your mind wants....NEEDS, to feel better, and better, until it feels right, and you feel right.  THEN, be prepared to come out, for sooner or later, you will become a woman.

Sure.....take just a little to feel better, by all means.





Bev

QuoteHow do you spell relief?

It is like having your eyes finally open, like after all this time carving open the walls of a cavern to have at least some bits of light on the inside... you get completely flooded with light from above. It is like my body is finally mine and my senses are alive. It's pretty much like being just like that ... alive, if you know what I mean.

Thanks for your reply Ms Dev, it makes lots of sense because suffering and pain definitely do not...
I would love to start taking again some E since that makes me feel really centered and happy, but I'm waiting for some medical advice this time, which is something I'm hoping to find here in UK.
But it is difficult to live on a daily basis without the proper hormones, and I wonder how much sense would it make to take some T-blockers in the meantime, just to chill out and don't let the T to take over and depress me.
Autumn, you've been on T-blockers for some time... could you tell a bit more about them? your mood / energy / body?
Anyone else on a T-blocker only diet?

 I feel very much in the middle,with a tick or two towards the feminine. Over the last 6 0r so years I have been on and off estro and spiro. The thing is I feel more "normal" when using them. The side effect is a calming of my psyche and a general better state of mind and mood. One of the benefits is a moderately more feminine chest.
I've become relatetively comfortable in the middle. There are defineitly more choices available here.

I live in between (or outside), lean more toward female than male. No HRT, although that could change.

Z

I've been on hormones for 6 months now.  Although I have told my employer that I am transitioning, I am still presenting as male.  My HR representative said it will not be a problem but to let her know how things are progressing so we can handle things as they happen.  I'm taking things gradually with adding minor changes as time goes on.  My hair is growing out again and I had my ears pierced a few months ago.  Lately I started shaving my arms so they wouldn't be so manly looking, and last week I started wearing bra tops.  I catch some grief regarding my hair (told several times that I need to get it cut, dang hippie), and really caught a lot of ragging over the ears but it's quieted down lately.  (By the way I work with a lot of ex Navy aviation mechanics).  When I can afford to have ANY surgery done I will get it done, but that's a couple of years away at this point