Should the State Have to Pay for a Trans Inmate's Hair Removal Procedures?

http://www.queerty.com/should-the-state-have-to-pay-for-a-trans-inmates-hair-removal-procedures-20090812/
8/12/09

I really hate to be this way, but No, the state shouldn't be paying for Michelle's MTF transitioning. This isn't an argument about the nature of transsexuality or the rights of individuals to express their true characters (all of which I support), but about the role of incarceration and the state's obligations to prisoners. Certainly if Michelle suffered from a life-threatening illness the state should cover treatment; aside from that, I don't think the state has any duty to ensure the general happiness and personal fulfillment of prisoners. Michelle's crime (and it still gets to be her crime regardless of any subsequent self-discoveries) relieved her of many of her Constitutional right (voting, bearing arms, etc), as well as her right to personal freedom. While I sympathize with her suffering on a human level, as a prisoner and a murderer she opted herself out of any right to public support beyond the basic necessities. I hate cases like this, because they really don't help the real and arguable rights of trans folks who aren't serving life sentences for murder.

Yeah, except people go to prison for nothing these days. People who make one small dumb mistake are screwed forever over something really HARMLESSS. What if it was one of those? Thats horrible...

they are in there for killing their wife, murder one, not nothing

Well, well, perhaps we're being hasty here, after all, we never met her ex-wife.

Quote from: Nichole on August 13, 2009, 05:05:24 PM
This one's in for murdering her wife though.

To me, its the concept. Our legal system is severely flawed. Some people get away with murder and some people get in prison who didn't do it. There is always a percentage for error. And while its all nice and dandy to think that murderers are a separate entity than "most people", they really aren't. Our entire race is capable of killing like that when something is wrong. I am NOT saying its right and that people shouldn't be angry... I'm just saying that no one is ever going to learn a thing from life when you're sending a message out there that if you do something horrible, there is no chance for you to bother trying again. That truly WOULD be a waste of tax payer dollars, cause you would be feeding someone and clothing someone who isn't doing a thing, who is just writhing and rotting and being a waste of SPACE... Not contributing anything to the world, which would be more productive. When your mom put you in time out and made you stare at the wall for stealing a cookie or punching the neighbor who taunted you, and then never stops yelling at you for it for 10 years; Brings it up in every day speech and stuff... Would you really think in your head that you did something wrong and want to strife every day to never sink that low again? Would you then be trying to be productive and being the opposite of what you were? Probably not. You'd just be bitter and negative and the world has yet another empty shell that contributes nothing.

I think that, unless they have that disproportionate brain attribute of SERIAL killers, that they can be mentally treated and it wouldn't be a negative to people who wanted them to suffer either... Cause then they'd have nothing but those memories until they died.

I don't really think a prisons purpose should be punishment. I think what its SUPPOSED to do is protect people outside of it from potentially dangerous, and mentally ill people. The people in prison can still contribute to society while being separate from it as a protective measure. Our brains are all complex computing machines... And the concept is that even TERRIBLY horrible and flawed people can have moments of good thoughts that people can benefit from.


I know my view isn't taking into account of loved ones of the murdered and I don't mean to be numb to that, but I don't think that the correct message is being sent from our system....

Yeah, in retrospect I guess she was just misunderstood, no doubt had an unhappy childhood too.  I guess we should have rewarded her for this behavior. After all, its not her fault.  If that stupid wife had done what she demanded that women would still be alive today I bet.

Quote from: tekla on August 13, 2009, 05:51:50 PM
Yeah, in retrospect I guess she was just misunderstood, no doubt had an unhappy childhood too.  I guess we should have rewarded her for this behavior. After all, its not her fault.  If that stupid wife had done what she demanded that women would still be alive today I bet.

I never said she should be rewarded -_-.

I think kara's point is that we shouldn't base our decision on just Michelle's circumstances. the same decision needs to apply to all inmates, not just the ones we deem violent or the ones that are blue colar. and on that point I absolutely agree. it's the department of corrections afterall, not the department of punishment.

that said, I don't think the prison system should pay for hair removal or GRS altough HRT seems reasonable especially under proper diagnosis/existing treatment.

Quote from: beth~chella on August 13, 2009, 09:55:47 PM
I think kara's point is that we shouldn't base our decision on just Michelle's circumstances. the same decision needs to apply to all inmates, not just the ones we deem violent or the ones that are blue colar. and on that point I absolutely agree. it's the department of corrections afterall, not the department of punishment.

that said, I don't think the prison system should pay for hair removal or GRS altough HRT seems reasonable especially under proper diagnosis/existing treatment.

Good luck getting a therapist who isn't a vegetable in prison... And yeah fine, maybe not hair, but hormones yes... You wouldn't even be punishing THEM you'd be punishing someone who was half themself and even MORE mentally Ill without that. It should be served to her with her food plate. Just like all of the other medications she might need to not go nuts.

Quoteit's the department of corrections afterall, not the department of punishment.

Having work in the Department of Corrections in Indiana, I can say that the medical staff only works with basic medical needs.  The inmates are there because they are being punished for violations of the law.  And it follows them forever.  If it were true corrections, then everything would be covered.

Basic education, i.e. GED is covered, higher education is covered by the same grants that everyone else can get.  HRT, SRS, BA, Electro are not basic.  Personally, if it helps to rehabilitate her then be all means Yes.  But the people will not let it be so, and we all know the reasons why.


Janet

Quote from: Janet Lynn on August 14, 2009, 09:22:18 PM
Having work in the Department of Corrections in Indiana, I can say that the medical staff only works with basic medical needs.  The inmates are there because they are being punished for violations of the law.  And it follows them forever.  If it were true corrections, then everything would be covered.

Basic education, i.e. GED is covered, higher education is covered by the same grants that everyone else can get.  HRT, SRS, BA, Electro are not basic.  Personally, if it helps to rehabilitate her then be all means Yes.  But the people will not let it be so, and we all know the reasons why.


Janet

I dk... I'd rather stay angry because I'd rather not be passive when stuff like this happens, cause it then gives me guilt. If you were in prison for 40 years for drug selling for example... And you were denied HRT and SRS...

That would just be cruel and horrible. Its a gung ho, us and them, BS ideal that makes the world a wretched place to live in.