I contemplated even asking for advice, because my mind is already somewhat made up, but some other opinions would be greatly appreciated.
I live above a gay bar in the East Bay, and a couple times out of the month, a group of friends will go down to drink, dance, and have a good time. Mostly straight friends, but there's a couple gay guys that come along sometimes. I know the bartenders, and the manager, and am cool with all of them. They all know my situation, and could give a deuce.
About 6 months ago, I was down there with a group, and hit the smokers room by myself. I've been hit on before by gay men, and a simple "not what you're looking for" usually works. So this random, belligerently drunk guy, about 50 wobbles over to me and starts telling me how cute I am. I tell him straight up, I'm trans, I don't even know why, but I just wanted him to get lost. This guy is a bar-rat, and is down there, everyday. He replies "I'm always attracted to guys like you, but you are never me". That was it.
Well about a month ago I'm down there with my step brother, his gf, and my friend. We're hanging out, minding out own business, and the rat comes in and is trying to talk to all of us. We ignore him, and out of no where he says "Wow..you have the deepest voice for a girl". My brothers gf looked at me weird, and looks at him, and asks me wtf his problem is. I held my breath, and was gonna let it go. 5 minutes later, he tries talking to me, and I look him dead in the eyes and say "Look, quit talking to me...and don't EVER disrespect me like that again". He apologizes drunkenly, and insists he didn't mean to disrespect me, ok fine, it's over.
Friday night, I'm down there with my brother playing pool. My brothers about 6'2 250, bald head, tatted up, not exactly approachable looking, even though he's a great guy. Well this bar-rat walks in, and starts talking loud enough so I can hear him about how "that girl doesn't like me much" eyeing at me. My brother was in the bathroom, and the minute he walked back in and back over to where I was, the rat left quick. My brother asked what the guys problem was, and I told him the story...he was ready to take him outside and slap him around a little. But we let it go.

Ok - so lastnight, I'm down there with about 8 people. Most of them, close friends, who know about me, and a few that didn't know. There's 2 girls sitting at the bar checking out me and my friend, who's a straight guy. The rat walks in, starts talking to the girls, looking at us, then talking to them again. My friend has seen the guy before so knows he's a toolbox. Then the fool walks over to us, puts his hand on my friends leg, and says "Those girls want to know if you're gay?" My friend tells him to get his f'ing hand off his leg, and that he's straight. The rat walks back over to the girl, and as I was walking by, heard him say "That's a girl". LMFAO I about lost it. The chicks are looking at him like he's crazy, and a couple of my friends look at me with wide eyes. I walked over to the girls, introduced myself, and asked what he was saying. They were all sorts of confused, and somewhat frightened at first, saying it was there first time down there, and they were wondering if me and my buddy were gay or not. The one girl says "I could tell you were straight, but we were curious about your friend", whatever, they thought we were cute I guess. She insists the guy didn't say anything about me, probably because he was standing close by. I yell out his name, he turns around and I said "How many times do I have to f'ing tell you dude?!" he turns around, ignores me. By this time the bar had closed, and we all went outside. The girls hung out for a while, and told me he kept telling them that I was a girl and bla bla bla.

My logical side, tells me violence isn't the answer, but it's taking everything I have not to completely rip this guy apart. He KNOWS my situation, and for whatever reason, keeps on harassing me, and everyone I come into the bar with. I'm pretty close with one of the bartenders, and was thinking about asking him to talk to him, and tell him to leave me alone. But I know he'll tell me if he keeps on harassing me, I have the ok to kick his ass.
He's a grown ass man, as am I, and for whatever reason wants to play high school gossip club, and put my business out there to people who don't even ->-bleeped-<-ing know me! HE DOESN'T EVEN ->-bleeped-<-ING KNOW ME. It's pissing me off, that THIS is pissing me off, because the guys obviously a complete douchebag.
We like going down there, and have a great time most of the time, but lately this guys constantly talking ->-bleeped-<-. And me TALKING to him obviously isn't getting any points across. Any ideas?

end->-bleeped-<-inrant.

I would blame the fact that he's an old drunk and not making any sense if people get confused about you.  That would give you more credibility than this weirdo.  If the bartender is your friend, I would suggest talking to him about it.  I'm not a fan of violence, especially because you could get in trouble for hurting him.  Perhaps you should try a different bar?

If it's harassment that's the problem, then I don't really have any advice. See if your bartender friend is willing to get him kicked out so he can't keep coming in, maybe?

But if it's him constantly trying to throw your secrets to the wind, consider that if you beat him up, or have him beaten, then it would give his otherwise ludicrous sounding claims some sort of backing. Pointing at a boy and saying "that's a girl!" is one thing, but pointing at a boy and saying "that [pronoun] beat the sh*t outta me for telling people [pronoun]'s a girl!" has a little bit more punch to it, no pun intended. It depends on whether or not a good smacking around would really dissuade him from trash talking you.
Y'know, other than the 'possibly getting assault charges' part. Not everyone is man enough to suck it up and take a beating when they deserve it; if he goes running to the cops or something, you'll have more trouble on your hands than just some smack-talking old lush.

I'd bring it up to WH management that a fellow patron is harassing you.  If they refuse to ban the guy, tell them you'll gladly spread the word that the WH is not a bar where the trans community is safe or respected.

You can always tell people that he has issues with you and says things to rile you up. I've know of guys calling a bio-male a girl or woman to piss them off and bash their ego.

Sadly, if this guy's a regular and spends alot of money there they probably won't ban him. In most situations the $$$ wins out. Of course, if you should ever be around him alone... 

Quote from: CodyJess on August 16, 2009, 07:54:09 PM
Not everyone is man enough to suck it up and take a beating when they deserve it.

Yow! Sentiments like that are reason enough that I'm glad that I was never a man in any sense.

Well, if no one will do anything and you're leaning toward violence try turning the table on him first.  Take the offensive and start the rumor mill flowing against him.  I know it's not the best way of handling this but it's better than violence because violence can lead to more violence and there's no knowing when and if it will stop.

Of course the better solution is to just find another bar if management won't support you.

Julie

The bar is going to side with its better customer, its just good business practice.  Moreover a gay bar is going to side with the gay customers over the non gay customers, any other choice would be bad for business.

And try to avoid fights in and around bars.  First drunks are too stupid to know when they have lost, second, its a good way to end up bleeding out in the parking lot, as you have no idea about this guy, if he's packing heat, or if he is going to get all stabby on you, or if he just might know how to really fight.

Quote from: Radar on August 17, 2009, 06:56:26 AM
You can always tell people that he has issues with you and says things to rile you up. I've know of guys calling a bio-male a girl or woman to piss them off and bash their ego.

^This^

and...

Quote from: tekla on August 17, 2009, 11:42:20 AM
And try to avoid fights in and around bars.  First drunks are too stupid to know when they have lost, second, its a good way to end up bleeding out in the parking lot, as you have no idea about this guy, if he's packing heat, or if he is going to get all stabby on you, or if he just might know how to really fight.

^This^


I say just shrug it off like "that jerk's always saying retarded stuff about me, I think he's jealous that I get more attention than him" and then laugh like it doesn't bother you (even if it does). Also, Tekla's got a good point that even though you may think he needs a beating, you might be the one ending up getting beat... Bar fights, actually physical fights in general, are not a good thing to get involved in.

Remember the old Elton John song, Saturday Nights Alright for Fighting?  Do you know what's its about?  It's about how gays get beat up so much that they got good at fighting back.  I've seen it happen many times.  So, it might be contrary to popular notions, but a lot of gay men can fight pretty well, they get too much experience at it growing up.

Bar fights, actually physical fights in general, are not a good thing to get involved in.
Sorry to say, but... spoken like a girl.  Fights can be OK, just avoid the bar ones with people you really don't know.

Quote from: tekla on August 17, 2009, 04:49:50 PM
Bar fights, actually physical fights in general, are not a good thing to get involved in.
Sorry to say, but... spoken like a girl.  Fights can be OK, just avoid the bar ones with people you really don't know.

Lol. That's not spoken like a girl, that's just spoken like me. I don't like fights, I know chicks who do and dudes who don't.

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Post Merge: August 17, 2009, 04:57:52 PM

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Besides, I spent 30 years being raised, socialized, and related to as a girl. So I'm bound to "speak like a girl" from time to time.

Quote from: tekla on August 17, 2009, 04:49:50 PM
Sorry to say, but... spoken like a girl.  Fights can be OK, just avoid the bar ones with people you really don't know.

Whoah, what a slam.

Guys like to fight, they may do it with fists, lawyers, or grades, but they do like it.  Confrontation, aggression and competition tend to be pretty male in most places.

Tekla, you have to remember...  this is about a bar in Berkeley.  Dudes there might as well just hug it out.

Quote from: tekla on August 17, 2009, 05:22:59 PM
Guys like to fight, they may do it with fists, lawyers, or grades, but they do like it.  Confrontation, aggression and competition tend to be pretty male in most places.

I never said I'm not competitive though. I said "Bar fights, actually physical fights in general, are not a good thing to get involved in."

Just cuz I'm not into bashing people up (or more likely, getting bashed up myself) doesn't mean I'm not competitive.

In fact, I think my dislike of fights has more to do with my inherent nerdiness (which I'm quite happy with, thank you) than it does any gender qualifications...

Violence never solves anything.  If you think it will, that's the testosterone talking.

At my local bar, I'm almost universally accepted.  But there are two scrawny barflies that hassle me when they are deep in thier cups.  I know that I could kick both their asses at the same time.  But it's better just to let it slide.  If I did kick their asses, it would kind of prove them right.

Now your situation is a little different, but still violence begets violence.

Violence never solves anything.

If there were true, you'd be saying it in German.

IGNORE HIM.

Unfortunately, you gave him the tidbit and he's running with it in an obnoxious manner.  All you can do is ignore him, as he knows he's getting to you.  Eventually he'll tire of it; or, if you pass and look unquestioningly male, the people he tells likely will just think he's talking out his arse.

I wouldn't give him the time of day, personally.  And if it really bothered me that much, I'd just go hang somewhere else.


Jay

Quote from: tekla on August 17, 2009, 11:42:20 AM
The bar is going to side with its better customer, its just good business practice.  Moreover a gay bar is going to side with the gay customers over the non gay customers, any other choice would be bad for business.

And try to avoid fights in and around bars.  First drunks are too stupid to know when they have lost, second, its a good way to end up bleeding out in the parking lot, as you have no idea about this guy, if he's packing heat, or if he is going to get all stabby on you, or if he just might know how to really fight.

I know they wouldn't kick him out, but I know the manager wouldn't "side" with him. I've had more than one "regular" tell me how annoying and rude he is. But you're right about the stabby part, dude doesn't strike me as one with dealing with a full stack. As far as fighting goes, I know I could take him. Unless he has some crazy karate skills he's hiding behind his drunken swagger.
Off subject - but the manager about a year ago, gave my friend the ok to kick some dudes ass outside after close, for starting ->-bleeped-<-. Nothing came of it, because there were enough of us to break it up.

Quote from: Mister on August 17, 2009, 05:27:45 PM
Tekla, you have to remember...  this is about a bar in Berkeley.  Dudes there might as well just hug it out.

^ LOL, you have a point. I assume you know which bar I'm talking about?

Quote from: sneakersjay on August 17, 2009, 08:05:23 PM
IGNORE HIM.

Unfortunately, you gave him the tidbit and he's running with it in an obnoxious manner.  All you can do is ignore him, as he knows he's getting to you.  Eventually he'll tire of it; or, if you pass and look unquestioningly male, the people he tells likely will just think he's talking out his arse.

I wouldn't give him the time of day, personally.  And if it really bothered me that much, I'd just go hang somewhere else.


Jay

It really didn't bother me until this last weekend. It honestly reminds me of high school, and how everytime I walked into a room, all eyes were on me. As far as going elsewhere, I do, and am not much of a bar hopper in the first place. This place is convenient, he's the only one I've ever had a problem with.

After a few days, I'm not as mad about it, but I'm just gonna talk to the manager when I catch him leaving. He's a good guy, and I know he'll talk to him about it. I hate feeling like a tattle tale, but obviously I'm not getting my point across to the dude.

Well, well, well, you can never tell

Seen too many bar fights go far afield, far too many "I can take him" psudo- tough guys get their butts handed to them, and a bit more, cause in a street fight, why stop just because the other person is down.

Of course I work with a guy who won one of those fights.  Hit the f*ucker so hard that he blacked out and went down like a rock.  Too bad, the rock hit his head on the curb, killed him, and my friend did 9 years in jail for that fight.