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Real pretty eyes with long dark lashes... going to be a problem as a male?

Started by roo, August 14, 2009, 10:31:00 PM

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Mr. Fox

Myself, you have a feminine face.  When I first saw you, I figured you were an SO.  Don't worry about it.
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LordKAT

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Nathan.

Quote from: Mr. Fox on August 17, 2009, 11:29:33 AM
Myself, you have a feminine face.  When I first saw you, I figured you were an SO.  Don't worry about it.

This, thats what I thought at first.
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Radar

Quote from: Mr. Fox on August 17, 2009, 11:29:33 AM
Myself, you have a feminine face.  When I first saw you, I figured you were an SO.  Don't worry about it.

Yes. You have no worries about passing at all ma'am. At all.
"In this one of many possible worlds, all for the best, or some bizarre test?
It is what it is—and whatever.
Time is still the infinite jest."
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Mister

None of you seriously think it's a problem?  IMO, super girly eyes are the #1 facial tell of transitioned FTMs.  I'd spot you no problem.
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tekla

I'm with Mister here - I know the proper form is to say "Sure you pass" when in fact, they could pass in the left lane in a Ferrari, but more often then not people are lying, and not being realistic.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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GamerJames

Quote from: Mister on August 17, 2009, 03:22:11 PM
None of you seriously think it's a problem?  IMO, super girly eyes are the #1 facial tell of transitioned FTMs.  I'd spot you no problem.

Then you'd probably "spot" my bio-male/cis-gender ex-husband as FTM too, because I'm telling you, his eyes are identical to Roo's but with long, blonde lashes that curl upwards. And he's a macho, redneck, "manly" man, meeting (and exceeding) almost every male stereotype that's out there.

Just sayin' is all... :)
♫ Oh give me a home, where the trans people roam, and the queers and the androgynes play... ♫

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maidenprincess

Quote from: Mister on August 17, 2009, 03:22:11 PM
None of you seriously think it's a problem?  IMO, super girly eyes are the #1 facial tell of transitioned FTMs.  I'd spot you no problem.
His eyes aren't super girly, they're just big, blue, and long lashed.  There's tons of guys who have those same features.  You'd only spot him because you know what to look for.
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tekla

There is more to it than that, its hard to change the eyes, and the skin is way too smooth also.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Mister

Quote from: tekla on August 17, 2009, 03:46:04 PM
There is more to it than that, its hard to change the eyes, and the skin is way too smooth also.

Yup.  Who got 100% on the boy/girl quiz?  Yeah, me...
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GamerJames

Quote from: tekla on August 17, 2009, 03:46:04 PM
There is more to it than that, its hard to change the eyes, and the skin is way too smooth also.

Okay, I don't know much about T (or anything really... lol) but doesn't the skin change on it?

Post Merge: August 17, 2009, 04:02:12 PM

Quote from: Mister on August 17, 2009, 04:00:19 PM
Yup.  Who got 100% on the boy/girl quiz?  Yeah, me...

Ok, now I'm just gonna be a big ol' poopyhead, but... was that an *online* quiz by any chance??

{ducks and runs...}
♫ Oh give me a home, where the trans people roam, and the queers and the androgynes play... ♫

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Mister

Quote from: NES_junkie_James on August 17, 2009, 04:00:51 PM
Okay, I don't know much about T (or anything really... lol) but doesn't the skin change on it?

Post Merge: August 17, 2009, 04:02:12 PM

Ok, now I'm just gonna be a big ol' poopyhead, but... was that an *online* quiz by any chance??

{ducks and runs...}

Uh, i've been living in areas with significant trans populations since about '96 or so and currently in SF.  you want to come try and beat me? 
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GamerJames

Quote from: Mister on August 17, 2009, 04:06:18 PM
Uh, i've been living in areas with significant trans populations since about '96 or so and currently in SF.  you want to come try and beat me? 

Don't get me wrong Mister, I sure as heck don't think I could beat you. That wasn't my intent. :)

I'm not trying to say that I know more about this than you or anyone else, but I'm just saying some things aren't always so cut and dried. I just don't see how you and Tekla can say that he'll never pass because of his eyes when I've seen bio-males with those same eyes and in fact some who have "girlier" facial structures than Roo even.

I respect the years you've got in, the first-hand experience you have, and the right you have to your opinion. I was only challenging the certainty you expressed, as I think every situation has its own possibilities and that saying for sure he won't pass EVER (theoretically after as many years on T and living stealth as you currently have) is a bit much.

But again, I'm saying this with respect for yours and Tekla's opinions, and just trying to open up the discussion. :)
♫ Oh give me a home, where the trans people roam, and the queers and the androgynes play... ♫

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roo

Quote from: NES_junkie_James on August 17, 2009, 04:00:51 PM
Okay, I don't know much about T (or anything really... lol) but doesn't the skin change on it?

Yep I think the skin is supposed to get rougher and oilier but I've come to terms with the fact that I'm probably going to be using the girls washrooms and maybe even getting a lot of second takes from the girls in there, until I start on the T. 
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tekla

Fact is there are quite a few gender clues we all use, most of them subconscious, and very hard to work through - it takes time, practice and the rest.  The other ones, we add up.  Which is why T helps guys to the point where it gives them facial hair, which is often enough to give one points in that direction.  But given facial clues - and as humans we clue to the eyes from birth - for a lot of things, that added to skin, to size, to muscle mass and tone are often huge tells.  After that, how you hold things, and yourself, and often very minor deals, are dead giveaways.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Mister

I am so sick of hearing that line.. "Well some bioguys......"  The only one used more commonly is "It doesn't take a dick to be a man."    The only two groups of people who use them are transpeople and the allies who are propping up people's self esteem.
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tekla

It doesn't take a dick to be a man

I don't know about that, but it sure helps to be one.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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GamerJames

Quote from: tekla on August 17, 2009, 04:37:14 PM
Fact is there are quite a few gender clues we all use, most of them subconscious, and very hard to work through - it takes time, practice and the rest.  The other ones, we add up.  Which is why T helps guys to the point where it gives them facial hair, which is often enough to give one points in that direction.  But given facial clues - and as humans we clue to the eyes from birth - for a lot of things, that added to skin, to size, to muscle mass and tone are often huge tells.  After that, how you hold things, and yourself, and often very minor deals, are dead giveaways.

That does make sense, and I see what you're saying, but does that mean then that guys with feminine eyes are doomed to never pass? I'm honestly asking for both your opinions here (and everyone else's as well).

I think that maybe (and I'm willing to change my viewpoint, I'll be the first to admit that I don't know everything) guys with feminine facial features - whether transguys or unlucky bio-dudes - might be looked at as "wait, is that a guy or a girl, they have really girly eyes" but then the viewer will stop and think "ok, but he's got a beard, no tits, a deep voice, etc. so he's obviously a guy".

In that case whether they're right (bioguy) or "wrong" (transguy) it still boils down to their final decision being "that's a man, baby"... And isn't their *final decision* more important than if they hesitate or not?
♫ Oh give me a home, where the trans people roam, and the queers and the androgynes play... ♫

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Mister

no, they eventually pass to the un-transaware.  most are forever detectable by those in the know, though.
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