Dan Savage: transsexual people and our past

http://www.tranifesto.com/2009/08/dan-savage-transsexual-people-and-our.html
8/17/09

I may not always agree with Dan Savage, but I love his advice column. And I was interested in his very to-the-point response to a recent letter.

The question is: Do "post-op" trans people have an obligation to tell their lovers "that they were once the other sex"?

Savage's answer is: Yes.

I fully agree with him and feel it should be done before you become intimate with someone.

Susan is right, as per usual, as is Dan Savage, as per usual.

Quote from: Susan on August 19, 2009, 12:40:41 AM
I fully agree with him and feel it should be done before you become intimate with someone.

So do I. Despite the fears and difficulties what kind of relationship would be worthwile and have a future without honesty and trust?

LL&R

Maebh

For a relationship, yes, but for a post-op one night stand, no.

Quote from: Leslie Ann on August 19, 2009, 03:22:13 PM
For a relationship, yes, but for a post-op one night stand, no.

seconded.

Thirded. Motion carried!

Even Post-op I would suggest letting him/her know.

Honesty is best; and deceit can come back to haunt you..
I have been honest up-front with every person I have been intimate with.. pre and post-op.

If you feel they might have a problem with you.. perhaps they aren't "Mr". right or even "Mr". right now.
Just my opinion.

Shana

Quote from: Shana on August 19, 2009, 11:39:22 PM
Even Post-op I would suggest letting him/her know.

Honesty is best; and deceit can come back to haunt you..
I have been honest up-front with every person I have been intimate with.. pre and post-op.

If you feel they might have a problem with you.. perhaps they aren't "Mr". right or even "Mr". right now.
Just my opinion.

Shana

Exactly, that one night stand might have been Mr or Mrs Right but you'll never know.
Anyway personally I am not interested in one night stands.
Perhaps I have too much a high opinion of myself but I would feel very demeaned and devalued if anyone would consider me only as such. Conversely neither would I consider anyone else as such.
This might be a the legacy of having being raped and sexually abused as the child. So thank you: I might be a person with urges and desires too, but I am also a person with feelings and thoughts and not just a sex-toy to be used then discarded.
Anyway this is only my own personal opinion and what is right for me doesn't have to be so for everybody.

LLL&R

Maebh

The question is: Do "post-op" trans people have an obligation to tell their lovers "that they were once the other sex"?

Which seriously begs several questions unanswered here.  I was surgically assigned male at birth....
I never "identified" myself as male my entire life, my self identity was female.  So why on earth would I feel obligated to tell someone I used to be something I never felt myself to be?

Have we become so used to a total lack of the right to privacy that one's own past and one's own body is no longer theirs to keep private?  Practically speaking, at sixty years of age, I've pretty much decided to avoid those relationships anymore in my life.

But if I decided to change that, someone would be entering a relationship with me.....as I am and if that isn't good enough, screw them and the horse they rode in on.  I'm accused of "self loathing" all the time for my viewpoints on "trans" issues.  Sorry, I find it self-loathing that someone feels it is obligatory to reveal all of the sordid bits of their medical history just to have a relationship or at least a clear indication of residual shame.  Why not just require a questionaire such you fill out when seeing a new doctor requiring all your medical history?   My past and my body are mine.......mine to share or not as I see fit, not at the directive of some outsider.  Implicate in this "you must reveal" position is that I am somehow less than real, something I reject utterly.  I am not Hester Prynne living in a Puritan village to be forced to wear a scarlet letter of shame.

Susan is right for Susan, she has no right to make such decisions for me.

If post op, and not in love with the person, there is no reason whatsoever that one should have to mention their pre surgical status.

Not telling is being passive-aggressive.

Not telling is saying that you feel the other party doesn't deserve respect.

It's a petty act, with the emphasis on petty.

Yes, there are lots of people who will freak out if they find out you're [fill in the blank]. 

Not telling them is reducing yourself down to their level "Oh, yeah?  You think transsexuals are sick!?  I'll show you!  I'll [have sex with] you, and you won't even know."

It's not really about pleasure, because it's mixed with retribution, 'getting even'.  Maybe the pleasure is derived from the deception -- an inverse power exchange...topping from the bottom.  The same way some guys derive pleasure from receiving oral sex without reciprocating.

I didn't say "Don't do it".  If you're going to do it you'll rationalise and do it, the same way adulterers and adulteresses rationalize -- the news is certainly full of those incidents of late, isn't it?  But not telling is tinged with agression and ruthlessness against your intimate opponent -- I mean, 'partner'.

Have a ball...

Karen

My answer on this is in flux.  The more I see people do a 180 on us after they know, the more I tend to ask myself, whose business is it anyway?

If you had a gall bladder removed would you feel it's dishonest NOT to divulge that to your partner?  What about a kidney transplant?  How about a heart bypass?

The problem is we think this is such a big deal we feel compelled to tell everyone close to us.  GRS is the only surgery that gets this kind of treatment.  If your partner isn't questioning and there is no chance of him/her finding out, why rock the boat.  Why not be treated like any other person born of your identified gender?

I'm not suggesting you put on an act or lead a dual life.  Just be yourself and let the chips fall where they may.  If questions arise, be honest.  But this whole "Before we have sex I need to tell you something" is riddled with guilt and insecurity and a lot of other junk too many of us carry.  If we weren't conditioned to believe we are abnormal or weird would we be worrying about this so much?  I don't think so.

Few of us can actually pull off a long term relationship with someone without them knowing so for most of us this is a moot point.  But for those who can integrate into normal every day life without concern of being outed, why not enjoy it for what it is and not label yourself.  We already have too many labels.  Relationships should be built on who you ARE, not what you were.

Julie

Ok.. I've been trying not to go here, but..

Some of the worse violence our sisters come across is from guys who feel lied to and deceived, especially when it comes to sex.    Not just at the time, but sometimes years later.

I am not saying which way is right or not. It is a very personal decision we each need to face in our own way. But please remember, often times, secrets aren't forever.    Be safe.

Karen, I can honestly say that I don't agree with even one point in your comment.  I'm really struggling to understand how anyone could even feel the way you say you do.  It would seem to me that any post op that would feel the way you do and thus divulge so as not to be petty, passive-agressive, etc would almost have to consider herself less than, other than, or different than simply female.

If one is preop, it's absolutely imperative that they divulge before they even agree to go out on a date with a man.  But, in my opinion, for a post op, there's no reason to at all unless, or until, there is involvement over and above a few dates. 

Quote from: SA-ET on August 20, 2009, 10:07:02 PM
I'm really struggling to understand how anyone could even feel the way you say you do. 

Don't worry, I'm working on a thesis.

Take care;

=K

What is worse? To say even the truth, and to risk that the partner leaves one; or if someone else says the partner the truth? It sick me off, if I must read over and over again that people with transsexual past are violated,beaten up ore even murdersed by their partners. It sicks me of, to hear over and over again  or to read stories that a partner became violent because he loves not the person, but an object/desireobject. And it sicks me of, if I see how many broken hearts suffer whimpering because partner can't handle with it. Preferably I would kick these people in the pants, or, otherwise, something. so that a partner understand that not the born gender counts, but what is somebody.

One finds his or her own comfort & safety with their life. No one else can do that for you and the arguments about morality or it's lack are consistently from perspectives held by the arguer/s.

If the answers were easy and cut-and-dried, I'd presume everyone would always do the same things.

Stepford wives and husbands.

Thank you Nicole......
I hesitated to point out I spoke only from my own perspective only to be lectured to about my morality when I made no such counter.

Quote from: transheretic on August 21, 2009, 02:31:48 PM
Thank you Nicole......
I hesitated to point out I spoke only from my own perspective only to be lectured to about my morality when I made no such counter.

Not at all, Cathryn.

That's just a basic, seems to me. People can argue all day about whether or not something is moral or immoral dependant on their perspectives on pretty much anything.

One makes his or her choice and varies or changes it according to changes or the lack of changes he or she may experience latter.

Most morality seems, in practice, to be relative to the circumstance, the pre-formed beliefs and or experiences of the individual, and the desire to do the deed or lack of it in whomever is arguing the morality of an action.