In a natural pre-menopausal woman the hormones aren't at steady levels, they fluctuate through the menstrul cycle. Do any regiments of HRT used for M2Fs rplicate the female body in this much detail?

I guess these days most biological women are running on synthetic cycles anyway from the pill etc. they used to formulate the contraceptive pill to match the normal cycle for everything except the ovulation but i think they decided it wasn't worth the bother.

I must admit i am purely curious, i am XX already so i wouldn't be doing it myself so it's not applicable to me, i'm just kinda facinated by endocriniology.

good question. been wondering that myself.

When I was discussing options for HRT with my endocrinologist when I first started my transition, he asked that very question.  By using the estradiol and progesterone in a cyclic manner he said that I could experience much of the same physiological and psychological effects of a true moon cycle.  I probably wouldn't get cramps since I had no uterus, but I could have the water gain, PMS and mood swings of a teenager going through puberty.

Or we could shoot for a mostly contestant level of hormones and not have quite as severe reaction.

I opted for the more level approach.  Though I still sometimes experience some emotional swings toward the end of my injection cycle.  And then pictures of kittens can make me cry.

-Sandy

I do, for two reasons.  First, I think that the cycle of a woman, compared to the stable levels of a man, are one of the major differences between the sexes.  To quote Harry Chapin, "He was the sun, she was the moon."  The sun burns at a constant level, while the moon goes through phases.

I also have a theory that fluctuating hormone levels are a key element of breast growth.  In normal females, breast growth occurs during puberty, when fluctuation is at its greatest.  The body develops resistance to chemicals.  One way to limit this resistance is by varying the levels of exposure.  For example, it has been proven that the natural medicine echinacea is most effective when taken at high doses for a while, then low doses for a while, before ramping back up to high doses.

Nope, do not nor do I want to. However, evidently I must at some level, naturally. Why do I say this? because right after I went FT some coworkers said, "Now we know why you had PMS symptoms." I asked about that and apparently they had kept track of my bad days and found that every 5 weeks I was to be avoided at any and all costs.

Yeah, avoid working with tech and engineering types especially when they get bored.

Yes, had it checked out and the results came back as inconclusive and since there is nothing life threatening going on I decided it was not worth checking into further.

Quote from: GinaDouglas on August 10, 2009, 12:12:12 PM
I do, for two reasons.  First, I think that the cycle of a woman, compared to the stable levels of a man, are one of the major differences between the sexes.  To quote Harry Chapin, "He was the sun, she was the moon."  The sun burns at a constant level, while the moon goes through phases.

never heard it put that way. lovely thought. 

Quote from: Sandy on August 10, 2009, 08:55:57 AM
When I was discussing options for HRT with my endocrinologist when I first started my transition, he asked that very question.  By using the estradiol and progesterone in a cyclic manner he said that I could experience much of the same physiological and psychological effects of a true moon cycle.  I probably wouldn't get cramps since I had no uterus, but I could have the water gain, PMS and mood swings of a teenager going through puberty.

Or we could shoot for a mostly contestant level of hormones and not have quite as severe reaction.

I opted for the more level approach.  Though I still sometimes experience some emotional swings toward the end of my injection cycle.  And then pictures of kittens can make me cry.

-Sandy

I share a house with a natal female lesbian and her girlfriend who is around often and I seem to have gotten onto their same cycle- ie, the water gain, PMS and mood swings right in sync with them. Geez the last time even opening my underwear drawer made me burst into tears. I'm not cycling my E or anything but there is definitely a correlation here. I know girls who live together usually have synchronous cycles and it appears I have fallen right in with them.

I like Gina's explanation, it makes sense.

I do because I wish to be as close to being the woman I should have been.  Call me nutsziod, but I would welcome the cramps, red death, everything.


Janet

I use a Progesterone creme for ten days mid month.

Just out of curiosity, how are you cycling?

Do you do something like take a normal dose for say 2 weeks, then raise the estrogen for a couple days, drop back to normal and add progesterone?

Or, are you ramping up for two weeks on estrogen, spiking, start reducing and add a progesterone, finish out the cycle with normal levels?

I am curious what people do who are cycling their hormones.

I don't think I am violating the rules, but if I am let me know (I think I might be awfully close).

Valerie

As long as nobody is talking specific doses it is all good.

Nicki

I do not, but then again, most women in my family are menopausal by my age and are on hormones themselves.
I did try cycling earlier in transition and really found no great difference, mother moon seemed to grab me and yank me about a bit either way.

Shana

yeah all as a proportion of max dose or min dose seems ok? "half what i normally take" can't help someone self medicate? and i'm curious too...

menopause is a good point too actually, would you stop  cycling at the point when you would as a biowoman?

though i can see some reason for keeping going on some logic? if you start being a cycing woman late, maybe you should keep going later?

all alien to me, if i'm going anywhere it will be the opoosite direction.

Based on the hormone levels of the typical cycle, I add one or two doses of gel to the normal dose I get from my patch, and only take progesterone on the day of the month that progesterone should be highest.  So my estrogen dose is X for two weeks, 2X for 4 days before and after the 6 days of 3X.  Since I am using the gel, I can gradually increase the dose towards 2X and 3X, in a way that could not be done with pills, unless I was splitting the pills into fractions.

Quote from: GinaDouglas on August 20, 2009, 12:27:53 AM
Based on the hormone levels of the typical cycle, I add one or two doses of gel to the normal dose I get from my patch, and only take progesterone on the day of the month that progesterone should be highest.  So my estrogen dose is X for two weeks, 2X for 4 days before and after the 6 days of 3X.  Since I am using the gel, I can gradually increase the dose towards 2X and 3X, in a way that could not be done with pills, unless I was splitting the pills into fractions.

hi Gina. do you notice any changes between cycling and not cycling? or have you always cycled?

For the first 18 months, I just used the patch, and my breast development leveled off, so I started cycling.  Development has increased, breast sensitivity, sex drive and sexual response vary during the month.  It doesn't seem to affect my mood, but I just might be unaware of it, or because of the higher estrogen, my overall mood may be happier.

Quote from: GinaDouglas on August 20, 2009, 01:48:58 PM
For the first 18 months, I just used the patch, and my breast development leveled off, so I started cycling.  Development has increased, breast sensitivity, sex drive and sexual response vary during the month.  It doesn't seem to affect my mood, but I just might be unaware of it, or because of the higher estrogen, my overall mood may be happier.

sounds exactly like me pre-T. that's really cool. you're experiencing everything  except menstruation. 

Quote from: GinaDouglas on August 20, 2009, 12:27:53 AM
Based on the hormone levels of the typical cycle, I add one or two doses of gel to the normal dose I get from my patch, and only take progesterone on the day of the month that progesterone should be highest.  So my estrogen dose is X for two weeks, 2X for 4 days before and after the 6 days of 3X.  Since I am using the gel, I can gradually increase the dose towards 2X and 3X, in a way that could not be done with pills, unless I was splitting the pills into fractions.

This is an intriguing idea, it might be worth trying out. I'm mad at my doctor right now but when I get over it I'll ask her about it, thank you. These estradiol pills look splittable, so those of us on pills alone could split pills or perhaps add a patch or something on the upswing segment. I could tolerate a patch for a week or so a month, just not all the time. You mentioned that you started this at 18 months in, do you think it would have been beneficial to do it from the beginning, or do you feel like saving it for a tolerance/slump scenario was better?

I don't, but I'm on injections like Sandy.  It's a little harder to vary since my once a month shot keeps my levels where the endo wants them to be the entire month.  Not messing with that. 

Quote from: Becca on August 20, 2009, 03:49:01 PM
This is an intriguing idea, it might be worth trying out. I'm mad at my doctor right now but when I get over it I'll ask her about it, thank you. These estradiol pills look splittable, so those of us on pills alone could split pills or perhaps add a patch or something on the upswing segment. I could tolerate a patch for a week or so a month, just not all the time. You mentioned that you started this at 18 months in, do you think it would have been beneficial to do it from the beginning, or do you feel like saving it for a tolerance/slump scenario was better?

I think it's intriguing too and plan to ask my doctor about it as well. It does make sense, and especially as Nero confirms the authenticity of the results.

Quote from: Becca on August 20, 2009, 03:49:01 PM
You mentioned that you started this at 18 months in, do you think it would have been beneficial to do it from the beginning, or do you feel like saving it for a tolerance/slump scenario was better?

I thought it was better to see how my body responded to estrogen before I started playing around with the dosage.  I wouldn't recommend cycling before making sure that there are no negative side-effects first.

I wouldn't expect anybody's doctor to get behind this, because if something went wrong, it would be malpractice.  Doctors are like lemmings, they go where the pack goes because it's safer.