Hello trans-community, haven't posted in these boards in ages! Wow!

Okay, BECAUSE i haven't been here in a while and for the sake of following the rules here, I will try to keep as caml as possible despite that this situation was on Tuesday and I am still mad as the devil about it.

So, my mom was trimming my hair Tuesday afternoon. I didn't have any bag or hair shield on, just my undershirt. After we were finished there was hair left on my shirt. My mother very ignorantly asked me to remove it so she could shake the hair off it. Very upset about it, I tossed it off and gave it to her so she can shake over the trash.

Barechested, I turned and faced the other way and covered my chest for an obvious reason.

A question to the non-transgender genetic females- How would you feel if you were coming home at 3am one night and a man in a trench coat and top hat requested that you remove your clothes? Yeah! That's as just as violated as I felt. I feel that my OWN mother has violated me and she knows she did. I expressed how I felt to her and she tries to go "Oh no i didn't! You're crazy! That's all in your imagination!"

Look. She can call me crazy or psychotic as much as she like. That doesn't offend me in any way shape or form because you'd prolly agree with her if you would see how I get out my angre but she doesn't posess any right in the world in any ioda to tell me not to be modest about my chest, especially knowing that I am a transgender.

I even asked her since she doesn't care about how i feel that how 'bout she remove her top! She refused but told me if I were a girl she wouldn't mind changing in front of me. WHAT DID THAT HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING!!!

She was REALLY inconsiderate to me. I Told her she was really in considerate to me! She objected saying, "Oh no i wasn't. I'm very considerate to you, dear!"    

WHAT? If you were considerate to me, knowing that I'm a transgender, you wouldn't ask me to remove my shirt!!! DUH!!! She even confessed that she "didn't see anything, just the back" but I really think that that doesn't really matter.

Here's my ways of getting revenge on her-
- I didn't help with the kitchen chores like I was supposed to and that she asked me several times to.
- I won't be helping with the grocerries for a while
- ALSO (this sounds kind of insane), in the middle of changing her clothes I barged in on her!!! yeah. gasps...

I am not say that there is nothing wrong with what I did, because I admit that there in fact was. That was just me getting back at her for violating me and SAYING she didn't voilate me when in fact she did. But you people have to agree with me that there was also something wrong with what she did to and I'm still very upset.

The only occasion in which I will happily remove my shirts and go topless is when i'm undergoing a medical exam and IT"S A FEMALE DOCTOR! Not a transgender MtF one, a gentic female.

As a woman lacking her proper body, I have every right in the world to be modest about my chest just as biological female does with her chest. I tried to claim that she was wrong and tried to claim that she in fact was not when she actually way! She WAS wrong, in fact just as wrong as I was!

She said she didn't want to talk about it any further but I failed to express my anger to her and express what really upset me. How do I go about doing so when she claims there's nothing wrong with what she did? I know in this kind of dispute, we were both wrong and both owe each other an apology but it just seems that I'm more of the villain than she was.

OH!- This isn't in fact the first time we had this kind of thing brought up. My mom always had a problem with me being modest about my chest and it makes me so mad that I want to just break her clothes off and strangle her with them!!! GRRRRRRRRR!!!    

Hi BigLover,

I hope I'm not putting my foot in where it doesn't belong.. but, here are the options I see..

I have no clue which way you are going so I will just state this:

If you are a guy.. most guys seem to have no problem taking their shirts off wherever... or in front of who ever.         Myself, way back when.. I did have a problem, but then.. I never felt like a guy and girls weren't supposed to show their tops.. so I didn't.

If you are a girl.. well, when it's just us girls.. it's no big thing.. and especially something like dressing, or in your case, getting the odd hair out..

Had you considered that in some ways this might just be your mom's way of showing just a crack of acceptance?

Believe me, I know how embarrassing it is to be in early transition, but in the world of women.. this is not a big thing.     And it's not a transgender thing.. it's a woman thing.  Your mom would have seen you bare chested as an infant, been glad for you when they began to bud.. helped you buy your first training bras, told you when you needed a bigger size, or a better fit and probably measured you for it.. and help you get into your prom dress, and yes even your wedding dress when the time comes..  It is actually very much a mother daughter thing.. I have two sisters, and that was very much the norm for our household; and that has included me since my transition.

Only you know the intentions your mother had in her actions.. but from what I am reading.. she may have even began to reach out to you in acceptance as her daughter. Remember, this is all new for your family as it is for you.. and there aren't really any how too books to give them guidance.

You have a right to your modesty... yes you do.. but not all actions are meant to be a slap or a cruel joke at your expense.

As for how you treated your mom? Not many brownie points in the "I would really like to be accepted and respected for who I am" now were there?   Respect is earned my dear.. and tantrums don't' usually get the best result.

I hope you at least consider that she may have actually been trying to bridge the gap by being with you just like she would have if you had been born her daughter.. and doesn't know exactly how to go about it.

Hope this helps just a little.

Quote from: Shanawolf on August 21, 2009, 09:48:01 PM
Hi BigLover,

I hope I'm not putting my foot in where it doesn't belong.. but, here are the options I see..

I have no clue which way you are going so I will just state this:

If you are a guy.. most guys seem to have no problem taking their shirts off wherever... or in front of who ever.         Myself, way back when.. I did have a problem, but then.. I never felt like a guy and girls weren't supposed to show their tops.. so I didn't.

If you are a girl.. well, when it's just us girls.. it's no big thing.. and especially something like dressing, or in your case, getting the odd hair out..

Had you considered that in some ways this might just be your mom's way of showing just a crack of acceptance?

Believe me, I know how embarrassing it is to be in early transition, but in the world of women.. this is not a big thing.     And it's not a transgender thing.. it's a woman thing.  Your mom would have seen you bare chested as an infant, been glad for you when they began to bud.. helped you buy your first training bras, told you when you needed a bigger size, or a better fit and probably measured you for it.. and help you get into your prom dress, and yes even your wedding dress when the time comes..  It is actually very much a mother daughter thing.. I have two sisters, and that was very much the norm for our household; and that has included me since my transition.

Only you know the intentions your mother had in her actions.. but from what I am reading.. she may have even began to reach out to you in acceptance as her daughter. Remember, this is all new for your family as it is for you.. and there aren't really any how too books to give them guidance.

You have a right to your modesty... yes you do.. but not all actions are meant to be a slap or a cruel joke at your expense.

As for how you treated your mom? Not many brownie points in the "I would really like to be accepted and respected for who I am" now were there?   Respect is earned my dear.. and tantrums don't' usually get the best result.

I hope you at least consider that she may have actually been trying to bridge the gap by being with you just like she would have if you had been born her daughter.. and doesn't know exactly how to go about it.

Hope this helps just a little.

I was going to post the same but I think that Shanawolf summed it up. Women go topless in front of other women all of the time. Its just no big deal.

Quote from: BigLover on August 21, 2009, 09:11:34 PM
The only occasion in which I will happily remove my shirts and go topless is when i'm undergoing a medical exam and IT"S A FEMALE DOCTOR! Not a transgender MtF one, a gentic female.

I was wondering if you could clear this up for me, I'm a bit lost by your meaning. I've always sought out women for treatment too, but honestly I've always been treated better by male physicans, a lot better. Weird, huh? Personally I would prefer to see a mtf doctor, and one of the leading surgeons in the field is also transexual.

As far as the rest of it goes, it sounds to me like you and your mother have issues beyond your being trans that might be worth looking into.

Thank you both for replying but I don't think either of you read my post properly. Common mistake I won't nab ya about it.

Quote from: BigLover on August 21, 2009, 09:11:34 PM
As a woman lacking her proper body, I have every right in the world to be modest about my chest just as biological female does with her chest. I tried to claim that she was wrong and tried to claim that she in fact was not when she actually way! She WAS wrong, in fact just as wrong as I was!

I've a male body.

To Shana:
Yeah, I kinda agree about the girls changing in front of each other thing but she wouldn't wanna go barechested in front of me so why should I in front of her?

And at Riven One:
I don't think that that really matters. I wouldn't wanna change in front of a bunch of guys... well... I'm transgender AND i'm only attracted to females but still...

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Post Merge: August 21, 2009, 10:29:32 PM

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Quote from: Becca on August 21, 2009, 10:15:23 PM
I was wondering if you could clear this up for me, I'm a bit lost by your meaning. I've always sought out women for treatment too, but honestly I've always been treated better by male physicans, a lot better. Weird, huh? Personally I would prefer to see a mtf doctor, and one of the leading surgeons in the field is also transexual.

I was basically trying to say that I would only be willing to go topless if I were undergoing a doctor's exam and a doctor has to examine my chest but the doctor HAS to be a full-fledged woman with a woman's body. I don't want a man touching me in certain areas or any area for that matter unless it's the hands, arms, and face. And as for your second thing, that's not surprising.

Quote from: Becca on August 21, 2009, 10:15:23 PMAs far as the rest of it goes, it sounds to me like you and your mother have issues beyond your being trans that might be worth looking into.

Can you clear THAT up for me?

And your avatar kinda scared me for a second when i first saw it. Chinese circus i presume?

Well, I don't see what the problem is.

Men go shirtless in front of men and women. Women go shirtless in front of women. Either way, it should be okay to go shirtless in front of your mom, which might be why she's confused.

I understand if you want to be modest, but nobody else really cares, apparently...

Also, that comment about the MtF doctor was kind of rude...

Quote from: Heartwood on August 21, 2009, 10:35:59 PM
Also, that comment about the MtF doctor was kind of rude...

Well sorry if I offended anybody. 

Quote from: BigLover on August 21, 2009, 10:40:42 PM
Well sorry if I offended anybody. 

It's okay. ^^

Sweety, think about it.. Up until very recently you were her young man..

This isn't an instant.. "Hi Mom.. I'm a girl now".. "That's nice dear.. supper's on" sort of thing..
I am sure this is confusing and weird for her too.  You still have your male body.. for any woman.. it is a trick of the mind to be comfortable..    and to her.. well, you are still her child.. mom's sort of have a blind spot to where the boundaries are sometimes..

This is going to be a long process.. both of you will be awkward, both of you will make mistakes.. It is sounding more and more like you love her, and want her approval.. and it sounds like she loves you too. She could be your strongest ally if you let her.  It's all new.. and nerves are exposed and raw.. a little patience and a willingness to let the other be a bit embarrassed and clumsy.. might do wonders.

If you feel you could.. ask her about it.. she might surprise you.

and no offense taken..

Lol, she is an adventure to look at isn't she? I don't remember exactly where I got that, I believe she is one of the "Things" from the Dr. Seuss book "The Cat in the Hat". It's interesting to me that you see chinese circus 

The dynamic between you and your mother sounds like it could use some work, that's all I meant. I'm a psychology major with an emphasis on the dynamics of intimate relationships, and I tend to over analyze, I'm sorry. I do think you should give male doctors a chance, I know I sure miss mine now that he's gone and left me with a mean old battleaxe. Remember, men are more inclined to get to work and fix things, and I can dig that, especially when it comes to hormones and letters and such. Yes, it's a little weird at first to have a guy feeling you up who hasn't wined and dined you first, but you get over it pretty fast.

I'm rather modest around men, but women don't bother me. I grew up around mostly women

I remember my mom measuring my older sisters for their bras. They got a kick when I wanted to be measured also 

Short point. I know many women are comfortable being uncovered in front of other women. I also know many who aren't. I think mom needs to respect her daughters privacy and feelings in this one.

Quote from: Becca on August 21, 2009, 10:47:42 PM
Lol, she is an adventure to look at isn't she? I don't remember exactly where I got that, I believe she is one of the "Things" from the Dr. Seuss book "The Cat in the Hat". It's interesting to me that you see chinese circus 

Firstly, I thought the woman in the avatar was you and yes... "Cat n the hat" comes to mind too. That's because I thought of this when seeing your avatar;



As for the rest of your post, I couldn't agree more, Becca, our relationship could use sooooo mcuh work, it's not even funny. You'll see us as a trainwreck and can't even look. We're incompatible.

At Shana:
She knows that I'm a transgender 100% but has a problem with me being modest abuot my chest. That SCREAMS inconciderate. If that's not inconsiderate. I failed to know what is!

Quote from: Virginia Marie on August 21, 2009, 10:49:14 PM
I'm rather modest around men, but women don't bother me. I grew up around mostly women

I remember my mom measuring my older sisters for their bras. They got a kick when I wanted to be measured also 

I really don't wanna be uncovered in front of anybody for real for real, but if it isn't for a medical exam, and if I'm not taking a shower. NEVER will you see me shirtless. In the swimming pool I go with an undershirt on btw in case any of you are wondering.

Quote from: LordKAT on August 21, 2009, 11:10:16 PM
Short point. I know many women are comfortable being uncovered in front of other women. I also know many who aren't. I think mom needs to respect her daughters privacy and feelings in this one.

[relieved] THANK YOU!

You are quite welcome. I have felt that people need to respect other people and their feelings and boundaries all my life. I was surprised by the reactions you received as i thought transsexxual beings would understand that point. Not all people are comfortable about nudity in varying degrees. If you are uncomfortable with it, then being forced to be uncovered would definitely feel like a violation.

Quote from: BigLover on August 21, 2009, 10:21:32 PM

I was basically trying to say that I would only be willing to go topless if I were undergoing a doctor's exam and a doctor has to examine my chest but the doctor HAS to be a full-fledged woman with a woman's body. I don't want a man touching me in certain areas or any area for that matter unless it's the hands, arms, and face. And as for your second thing, that's not surprising.

You realize of course that there's a logical problem here.  You don't want to be treated by a MTF doctor because you don't consider them a "full-fledged woman".  Meanwhile, you are demanding that your mom treat you as a "full-fledged woman", even though you are also MTF.  Why are you demanding more respect than you yourself give?  This seems to extend to your relationship with your mother.  You might stop and consider things from more than just your own perspective more.  I know you are still really young, but it should help you out a lot in your transition and life in general.

Quote from: BigLover on August 21, 2009, 09:11:34 PMThe only occasion in which I will happily remove my shirts and go topless is when i'm undergoing a medical exam and IT"S A FEMALE DOCTOR! Not a transgender MtF one, a gentic female.

Yeah, totally hypocrite.

And when a child yell at his/her parents. They wont listen.

I don't consider a MtF 'fake' in any way... sorry, I just really hate when people say that someone like me is 'fake', not a proper woman, w/e...

I guess I'm kinda in the middle here.  I agree with you that you were both wrong.  Sorry to say, but you maybe more so by the "revenge" you took.  That certainly did not help the situation any at all.  I do agree that this was an early step in acceptance from your mother.  Her son is going to be her daughter and as tough as that is for us, imagine what it's like for a mother.  For what it's worth, it think some compassion on your part would go along way to solving the problem.  Be the big one and appologize first.  Maybe this will open the door to discussion and that can never hurt.

I know what you mean when you kinda don't like your body and you are embarrassed in front of other people but two wrongs never make a right. my parents particularly my dad will walk in on me in the bedroom when I'm staying with them and I say to him excuse me but i'm changing and he shuts the door. I usually hold my arms around myself and yeah it is embarrassing. Strange though because whenever possible I always sunbath topless on a beach and that doesn't bother me, lol.

Stardust   

To both Sarahs:
I don't know if either of you failed to see this post but I will kindly and calmly say this piece and I won't be defensive about it but about the doctor thing, I did realize it was kind of mean and I didn't mean it the way it came off my keyboard. I made my mistake. Heartwood already called me on it. I apologized, and learned from my mistake and so from then on, move on.

To RachelAnne and whoever else brought up this similar point:
As a m2f transgender, I'm ashamed at my flat chest my mother here acts like it's against the law. How exactly is this an early acceptance stage when she doesn't like my modesty about my chest?
This is all my humble opinion but ACCEPTANCE means ACCEPTANCE. Period. So if I wanna identify as a female and be modest about my male chest, that's my perrogative and she has no right in the world to judge me for it. Acceptance would be accepting/understanding the fact that I'm trangender and as such I have every right to be modest about my "breasts" just as you do yours.

And to Stardust:
You're right. We were both wrong. But the thing is, when I get into a dispute with someone, I don't tend to apologize until the other person apologizes first. With me, it's either at the same time or not at all. Secondly, I'm a vengeful type of person.