Quote from: BigLover on August 22, 2009, 06:28:18 PM
You're right. We were both wrong. But the thing is, when I get into a dispute with someone, I don't tend to apologize until the other person apologizes first. With me, it's either at the same time or not at all. Secondly, I'm a vengeful type of person.

You understand that this will only, ever, make things worse?

Quote from: BigLover on August 22, 2009, 06:28:18 PM
she has no right in the world to judge me for it

That's kind of the thing, because she does have the right to judge you for it. We judge each other all the time, it's just how humans are. Sweety, your mother's feelings are just as valid and important as yours. I'm not suggesting you act upon her feelings, but if she is someone you love and want to support you, please don't discount her either. Has she done anything else besides get pissy with you over this?

I agree with you that this entire topic is about acceptance. It seems like you definitely have some issues with your appearance; Don't we all  No one is going to accept you until you accept yourself, and believe me I know that's easier said than done but that's how it goes.

What's the point in being vengeful? It sounds like your relationship is strained as it is, why not be the bigger woman and make some brownies and tea and sit down and talk? You don't have to apologise, you don't even have to talk about trans stuff or even about you at all. Talk about her and her day/week/life. Remember, from her perspective it wasn't that long ago that she was changing your diapers and arguing with you over candy. It's very difficult for parents to make the transition from the adult-child relationship to adult-adult. So often it seems we get wrapped up in our trans issues, and with as overwhelming as they are that's understandable, but we tend to forget the people around us. Sometimes it's a lost cause and you might eventually have to give up, but what can it hurt to try and build an adult relationship with your mother?

Quote from: Becca on August 22, 2009, 06:59:45 PM
What's the point in being vengeful? It sounds like your relationship is strained as it is, why not be the bigger woman and make some brownies and tea and sit down and talk? You don't have to apologise, you don't even have to talk about trans stuff or even about you at all. Talk about her and her day/week/life. Remember, from her perspective it wasn't that long ago that she was changing your diapers and arguing with you over candy. It's very difficult for parents to make the transition from the adult-child relationship to adult-adult. So often it seems we get wrapped up in our trans issues, and with as overwhelming as they are that's understandable, but we tend to forget the people around us. Sometimes it's a lost cause and you might eventually have to give up, but what can it hurt to try and build an adult relationship with your mother?

I agree. And nothing compares to the mother-daughter relationship. It's something I am grateful to have experienced and something no girl should miss out on. But you have to build it. It takes two. Your mother can become your greatest friend and ally, but you have to be patient with her. Don't expect her to instantly know all the right things to do. She's never done this before.

I did not mean to deny your right to modesty.  You have every right to your modesty and have every right to expect it to be honored.  My point is that you have to let the anger go.  Being vengeful solves nothing except to make you miserable.  A wonderful lady once told me "the best revenge is to live well."  Get your revenge through being the best woman you can be.

You know you were wrong but can't apologize?  I am now siding with your mother.

Quote from: LordKAT on August 22, 2009, 08:19:23 PM
You know you were wrong but can't apologize?  I am now siding with your mother.

I know it sounded that way but that's not what I meant.

Really, if I did the first wrongdoing, I would apologize first. To me, the first/original wrongdoer should say sorry first, then the next person if they did anything. Yeah! I did wrong I'm willing to apologize! But my mother was wrong too and you and I both know that. If you want to take up to her defense, go ahead. I won't try and stop you but we both did our shares of wrongdoing and owe each other an apology.

Taking what you said into account- So if a person was falsely accused of stealing money from a cash register and he got his revenge somehow and it turns out he was innocent the whole time and the innocent person AND the store owner were both wrong and owe each other an apology but the innocent man says "I won't apologize to you until I get my apology," you would take the store owner's side?

Two stone heads will only chip away at one another until both are dust.

Quote from: Shanawolf on August 22, 2009, 10:54:58 PM
Two stone heads will only chip away at one another until both are dust.

Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do 

Riven_one, are those your legs?

Quote from: Becca on August 23, 2009, 12:36:13 AM
Riven_one, are those your legs?

yes

Quote from: riven_one on August 23, 2009, 01:46:20 AM
yes

Well I'm no lesbian by any means, but I hafta say WoW 

Nice Legs

Riven - one

Thirded.
Cute pins.

Didn't really want to buy into this one. BigLover My apologise first, but you sound like a very petulant youg lady. Your Mum was cutting your hair, caring for you, loving you, and you exploded over showing your chest +/- boobs. Sorry, get a life.

Cindy

Cindy

if the innocent "thief" stomped his/her feet and went "I won't apologize 'till he/she does" I wouldn't be rooting for either of them..
An innocent person becomes guilty the moment he/she decides to take vengeance.

Your mum had no intent to harm you, but taking vengeance is done with intent to cause harm.
That means that out of the two of you, from my perspective, you're the one who's sunk to a lower level and become the lesser person.

Quote from: riven_one on August 23, 2009, 12:34:37 AM
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do 

Whatever does that mean?

Quote from: CindyJames on August 23, 2009, 04:31:59 AM
Riven - one

Thirded.
Cute pins.

Didn't really want to buy into this one. BigLover My apologise first, but you sound like a very petulant youg lady. Your Mum was cutting your hair, caring for you, loving you, and you exploded over showing your chest +/- boobs. Sorry, get a life.

Cindy

Cindy

:soft voice: Oh I'm sorry! I failed to understand that a girl being modest about her chest :angry: WAS A CRIME!

Like I said MANY times now. She knew I didn't want to show my chest, She knew there were other ways to go about doing it and she acts like it's a sin to be modest about my chest. So Cindy, I think it is YOU who needs to get a life.

Quote from: Miniar on August 23, 2009, 08:13:35 AM
if the innocent "thief" stomped his/her feet and went "I won't apologize 'till he/she does" I wouldn't be rooting for either of them..
An innocent person becomes guilty the moment he/she decides to take vengeance.

Your mum had no intent to harm you, but taking vengeance is done with intent to cause harm.
That means that out of the two of you, from my perspective, you're the one who's sunk to a lower level and become the lesser person.

She knew I was transgender and don't like being barechested and she knew there were other methods of removing the hair from my shirt. Yes, she was trying to harm. She was being inconsiderate.

So since you guys wanna act like I was the villain or little Ms. Creuella Deville in this case, how would you all have felt and handled it in my position?

Quote from: BigLover on August 23, 2009, 09:53:53 AM
She knew I was transgender and don't like being barechested and she knew there were other methods of removing the hair from my shirt. Yes, she was trying to harm. She was being inconsiderate.

So since you guys wanna act like I was the villain or little Ms. Creuella Deville in this case, how would you all have felt and handled it in my position?

Lack of consideration =/= intent to harm.

Honestly, in my case, with my chest that I hate and don't expose to people other than my husband, I would have probably said "no, I'll handle it" and gone outside myself, dusted myself off as good as I could, then gone in and carefully changed shirts, tossing the one with hair in it in the dirty clothes pile.
Or, I would have asked for a towel, or a fresh shirt, or better yet,.. brought it in the first place myself, and used that to cover my chest after taking the shirt off.

And I wouldn't have demanded that my mother, who's seen me naked a few thousand times before, who's known me since birth, who's called me daughter for 26 years, to just get over the last 26 years, let alone ask her to understand my situation because she's not in it.
It is completely impossible to understand this without experiencing it.

And even IF my mother'd gone after a sensitive part of me on purpose, I sure as heck wouldn't have sunk to the level of a petty, vindictive, *** and gone and hurt her back. It only escalates the issue, and if someone's underhanded enough to purposely hurt their own child they will have excuses for it, they won't apologize no matter how big an a**hole I become and as such, vengeance won't help me at all, it'll only make me drag myself down beyond their level until I don't deserve any apologies what so ever.

very good way to put it Miniar.

Quote from: BigLover on August 23, 2009, 09:53:53 AM
Whatever does that mean?

In the context of this thread, really, nothing. It was a response to a remark about two stones wearing each other out made by someone else that made me think of it. A little levity in an otherwise heavy thread No offense meant.

You have been presented with quite a few possibilities of why what happened did happen by the members here. We are all trying to help you. We can only guess at what was going on based on what you have said, and besides, none of us were there. So we are at a disadvantage.

I hope that you and your mom work thru this situation, and I wish for the best for you.

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Post Merge: August 23, 2009, 12:15:32 PM

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Quote from: Becca on August 23, 2009, 02:54:25 AM
Well I'm no lesbian by any means, but I hafta say WoW 

Thanks! 

Quote from: BigLover on August 23, 2009, 09:53:53 AM
I failed to understand that a girl being modest about her chest :angry: WAS A CRIME!

Sweety I know it doesn't seem like it, but we love you and are on your side  What kind of friends just say "yeah youre right" even when your'e making a mess of things? Not very good ones, that's what kind. We have all been there and done that to varying degrees, and people like Cindy have been there and been doing that a lot longer than you or I. Assuming you plan to transition at some point, and when you start the odds are things will get worse before they get better...and a good, solid relationship with your mother could be a well worth-it investment of your time and energy. Your'e going to need to pick your battles because there are plenty to be had, and so far at least it doesn't sound like your mother is a lost cause and might be worth trying to salvage.

Me thinks this got blown out of proportion. I imagine you are pretty sensitive about your body at the moment which is why you reacted like you did. But next time you could use approach it like Miniar said "I'll handle it mum".