Don't sweat the pap. It's a quick process and tends to be a lot worse (in our heads) than it actually is. I was a complete virgin when I had my first one done and the doc was very quick and nonchalant about it all. There was some discomfort and slight pain (hymen intact after all), but it was over quickly. Just make sure your doctor has a gentle hand. My last pap I had (new doc wanted to 'check' everything before continuing my T prescription) was painful because the doctor wasn't gentle about it (perhaps because I'm a passable male and she didn't meet me prior to my transition).

Just make sure you emphasize that you've never had anything in your va-jay-jay and you're concerned about pain or discomfort.

Nothin to be embarrassed about...it's just a check up to make sure you're healthy. And once you get your hysto you won't ever have to do it again. =D

I'm feeling much better about it.  Still nervous, but I think the fact that it's a girl will make it more likely that she will be gentle, don't you think?

Quote from: Nero on April 09, 2008, 05:22:30 PM

Quote from: Jamie-o on April 09, 2008, 04:57:19 PM

Quote from: Nero on April 09, 2008, 10:10:28 AM
Umm... not to scare you but to prepare you. It hurts.

They make different sized speculums.  If you're not, er, very experienced, let your doctor know and she can use a smaller one.  She may very well ask, anyway.  A lot of doctors will also make an effort to warm it up a bit before sticking it in.  You might ask her if she plans to do that.

I was scared the first time, too, and was surprised to find it really wasn't that bad.

Thanks. I'm actually pretty experienced, just a bit tight.

I actually intended that advice for Brady, but I was rushing and didn't make that clear.  Sorry!  Lol 

Quote from: Nero on April 09, 2008, 11:19:25 PM
I don't think that's correct, Joey. The female parts can get lots of probs that have nothing to do sex.
But, I'm no doctor.

This is true.. You should have the test still even if you haven't had sex with a man.. Its just your chances of getting anything are higher when you start sleeping with men.

Quote from: Brady on April 10, 2008, 12:13:36 AM
I'm feeling much better about it.  Still nervous, but I think the fact that it's a girl will make it more likely that she will be gentle, don't you think?

Brady -  Glad you're feeling better about it.  It's a piece of cake, you'll see.  My doc and I are both athletes, so we often chat about sports while he's doing his thing down there.  (Yeah, that's how casual a pap can become after a while.)  I think male and female docs are equally gentle during a pap.



 

Posted on: April 10, 2008, 08:35:03 AM

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Quote from: Dennis on April 09, 2008, 10:16:42 PM

I just go to my doctor. Last time, she walked in and said "this feels weird. I'm sure it does for you too." Which broke the ice a bit.

Dennis

Glad to hear you say that.  Yeah, to acknowledge it out loud breaks the ice more than awkward silence would.  My family doctor is open-minded about my transitioning, so I think things will go well with him even though it'll feel weird for both of us, I'm sure.  For me, I think the weird part will be him seeing my clitoral enlargement from taking T.     

Brady,
    Good luck with it.  I know how horrible it can be.  Due to my current profession I am suppose to have them annually... better believe I hold off until I am forced to get one.  If I am lucky, then I have 1 maybe 2 left before retirement.

    Most people have no issues, and like was previously mentioned, there are different sizes.  No matter how "experienced" you are, the size can greatly vary.  I was worried when I talked to one of my docs after mine was done once and she told me that when I get one done to make sure I tell the doctor before hand to use infant size because most will assume an adult size will work no matter who you are or any medical odditys you may have.   

I guess I fit under medical odditity because even the infant size causes me pain.  60% of it could be me being tense because I have always seen myself as a straight man and nothing in my eyes should ever go in that area.  The doc. also said it's rare to be in my situation as far as the size needed to perform the pap, but even women who have had children can still be in need of that size and having children or intercourse is very painful for people in that situation.  It has caused me enough pain once that they could not perform it the normal way and had to just do a vaginal scrapping and the other internal check.  My test results still came out the same as a person who would get a normal pap, it's just they could not do a visual in addition to the scraping.  (Not many docs will ever admit they can do that, so if you find one... be very happy).

So odds are, you are not going to be the same type of medical odditiy as me, but you can still request the infant size and they can still do a normal pap with it.

I hope everything went well, Brady.

I never had one too. I went one single time to a gynaecologist and after hearing I wasn't using tampons she said, it wasn't neccessary.

HOLY F word.

I am never, EVER doing that again.

She used the smallest speculum and that still hurt like a mother.  Also, she shoved her finger up there to check my ovaries.  As soon as she started the process, I seriously felt like passing out.  Then, when she was done and told me to get dressed then come to her office, I seriously had to sit there and catch my breath for fifteen minutes.  I was seriously crying, guys.  I felt like a weenie but I don't care.  It wasn't really because of the pain, but that felt SO unnatural and so wrong.

I called my boyfriend bawling my eyes out lol it was HORRIBLE.  I'm never doing that again.

Brady -

SO SORRY to hear this.  (You're not a weenie -- most of us would have been bawling, too!) 

I honestly had no idea (before taking part in this discussion) how many people have had bad experiences with PAPs.  Guess I've been really lucky.  (And naive?)  I went through a stretch when I needed to have PAPs every 3 months (for 2 years) due to a high-grade precancerous condition.  Never had any pain issues... thankfully.  And, knock on wood.

Glad you got it over with, Brady.  But, again, so sorry it was such a terrible experience.

- Benjamin

It was hoooooorrid. I just had bubble tea with a friend though. Played some chess and Rock Band and he made me feel much better

Glad you're feeling better now. I know the feeling. I have to actually chomp down on a towel or my hand to keep from crying out during it sometimes. It hurts.

I felt like such a baby but I seriously was bawlin' on the way home on the phone with my boyfriend...It took a good couple of hours to get the shock out of me.  That was so horrible...

Now, if it were a PROSTATE exam I'm sure I could handle

ah, that sucks dude.  sorry it was so horrible but i expect to cry too when the inevitable happens.  i wish they could knock us out or something...

hopefully you won't have to do it again anytime soon.  and if this gets you one step closer i guess it is worth it, right?

I only did it to get the prescription to for pills that stop the monthly visitor lol so I guess its worth it....maybe

Dude, trust me, you wouldn't rather have a prostate exam. I have anal sex and vaginal sex and I don't want a doctor or any strange person sticking their fingers or hands in either or those places. I think it's just not so pleasant to have some stranger sticking their digits inside your body.

I agree with Bas. I've had/have anal and vaginal sex and the discomfort of a pap is because it's a doctor...they're not trying to get you off, they're just doing what they have to, to make sure you're healthy. So yeah, people not trying to give you pleasure is going to be uncomfortable regardless of where they stick their fingers or instruments... Having people who want to give you pleasure and sticking things in you feels a whole lot more enjoyable. XD

most humiliating thing ever, i totally understand - only thing kept me going was that it keeps me safe...

apparently anyone over 21 needs one regardless of uhm having 'done' anything or not...

better safe than sorry though - hope it wasnt too bad for you dude!

This topic is a bit old but i stumbled uppon it and figurred i'd have a go at sharring my knowledge in the area while i'm here.

I finnished a bachelor of science recently (i studied biomedical science: so a fair bit of anatomy, physiology, immunology, cell biology, microbiology... all kinda useful here). I also did a madly excessive amount of reading before i got the vaccine.

There's a fair bit of miss-information out there about who needs a pap, even among doctors. A lot of doctors don't even know that lesbians need pap smears so i doubt their ability to advise transmen unless they work at a gender clinic... and even then i'm not sure.

I think it is theoretically possible for almost any body part to spontaniously turn cancerous if you're unlucky enough, but the vast majority of cervical cancers (what the pap is looking for) are caused by a virus called HPV.

HPV is spread by sexual contact so if you have never had sexual contact with anyone (male or female) under normal circumstances you probably wouldn't need a pap. But transitioning probably isn't really "normal" circumstances.

I know intersex people, and people with hormonal imbalances, tend to be at a much higher risk of developing cancers in their sexual organs. I must admit i don't know if this applies to people who are transitioning under conttrolled circumstances though. I know Candy Darling (an M2F from the 1970ish) died of cancer related to her hormones, but i'll confess a lack of knowledge there. If your doctor thinks you still need a pap even though you are a virgin because you are on T, or on an unusual pill to stop periods, it's probably worth the embarrassmet just in case.

But i imagine that would be very few of you. I think the mechinism of transmission of HPV is a bit unclear. It used to be thought you could only catch it from a man, but they now think it can be transmitted between women. Pap smears are now recomended for lesbians under the same rules as straight women, i.e. after the onset of sexual activity.

If you have never had sex involving vaginal penetration at all, but have had some sexual contact with a man or woman (e.g. anal or clitoral). I don't think even the world experts on the virus could tell you if you were at risk. The risk is probably smaller than that for someone who has engaged in penetrative vaginal sex (be it penis, toys, or fingers), but it is probably still a big enough risk to make pap smears worth while, particularly if you are also stressing your female organs by taking hormones for transition.



As for pain, all i can say is relax. Biting down on a towel and tensing up is probably counter-productive? None of my female friends have told me about anything more than "discomfort" durring a pap. Also, tell the doctor clearly if it hurts, they may be able to do something to prevent it.

My doctor's advice was to have a PAP every year if you are sexually active, and every 3 years if you are not.  However, she also said that it's best to have a gynecological exam every year regardless so that the doctor can have a feel around on your ovaries, which, unfortunately, involves feeling around up inside.

hrmmm... if you've never been sexually active i can't think of why you'd need a pap every three years? i think the test is for a quite specific abnormality which usually can only be caused by the virus. If you have something hormonally unusual going on maybe (e.g. transitioning or intersex) it might be usual to have more screening than you would typically. I also can't think why you'd need it less frequently if you had been sexually active before but stopped, the virus has a very long incubation time before causing problems (up to 50 years). But guidelines vary a lot, in Australia it's every two years for all non-virgins (including lesbians). I guess my main point was that you might need them even if you've never had vaginal intercourse.

Hrmmm... might be a good idea to get the vaccine before transition too? If you still have your cervix you can probably get it free in a lot of countries, and there's almost no risk from getting it. It may lower risk of things like throat cancer, and may also protect your partner form catching it. I don't know if they know what body parts can carry it without getting cancer, but women who've never slept with women can catch it, so it must be able to infect things that aren't cervixes? and if you intend to keep your cervix, it won't get you out of pap smears but it lowers the risk of you needing extra ones for high-risk abnormalities like one of the guys was talking about before. Oooh and some versions of the vaccines can prevent genital warts, which could be a good bonus, but i don't think any countries consider genital warts sufficiently dangerous to publicly fun vaccinations against them?

A biomedical science degree gives you a certain mad enthusiasm for vaccines you see...

Hrmmm... i seem to be prattling-on a fair bit, i must be procrastinating about something...