Or more specifically, the way they act and are treated? I used to go to a gay bar, and as a transwoman (didn't quite realize it at the time) I was deeply offended by the sleazy attitude and demeaning way these cross-dressing men would present women, and the way the men would treat these "women". The biggest reason this offends me is, as it seems to me, this attitude seems to carry over to a lot of M2F trans (I mean the way men treat "men" who are transitioning to women is the same jerk-off way they treat these "fake" women) , too, especially pre-HRT. Any thoughts on this?

Please, please, please do not be offended by this post. It's not meant to be degrading towards those who cross dress because they want to, just more anger towards the way men seem to treat them.

Not all men behave the same way.
As such, it's impossible, not to mention sexist, to judge how "men" treat crossdressers.

As I have never been in such bars, it is difficult to guess what is going there. In any case, gay bars are a kind of special places, and may not represent the whole socieity well.

Barbie~~

I know that not all men behave that way, but I was just always very offended by the way they would treat these "women". And I understand a huge component of this behavior may be the fact they they are in BARS, but I still do see a carry over in the way these men treat women in transition.

I've been treated both very well and very poorly when perceived as being a crossdressed male. So I can only answer with I find the way some people treat some people offensive...

Yeah, thanks for the point Nicky. I think I'm generalizing based off of a few men. Now that I think about it, a majority of the men were just fine with the "women". And most cross-dressing men don't cause problems. I probably should work on not generalizing, huh?

Not only Crossdressers but trans people in general ! Look I know that the Gays at least here in Richmond Va have certain rights. I have been told by several people that I'm part of the entertainment at the local Metropolitian Comunity Church ! Listen folks , I quit that place last winter ! I thought I was doing something worth while . I dress to impress and I shop the thrift stores. I model myself after the silver spoon set of the upper west side . That means I dress conservatively but tastfully too . I go to church to thank my God at least for the few small blessings that I have not to be oggled and pawed on . Ellen Shaver

Men, ninety-nine percent give the rest a bad name.

No, I can't really say I've ever been offended. Boorish behavior, regardless from where it comes, is just that and I tend to ignore it.

Are you talking about over the top, flamboyant drag queens and their gay male friends and lovers?

Because there's nothing woman about any of that.

One interesting thing is that I was not unpleasant when one young guy treated me impolitly.

We had a trip to a mountain, visited temples, and stayed at a youth hostel. https://www.susans.org/forums/MGalleryItem.php?id=883

At night, we had a drinking party, chatting together around the round table. Although he was far younger than me, he treated me as a woman at her 20s. He called me like "bitch". Another guy seemed to advise him not to do that way, as I am older than him (in my country, age is important in hierarchy). He asked me whether I was offended by his way of treating me. I replied that I like your treatment, and I am glad that you accept me as a woman.

There have been a few men who stroked my hairs as if I am a charming girl, but it was not implite at all.

Barbie~~

Some have been kinda snotty towards me. But most have been nice. But most folks see me as a girl to begin with.

There was a guy friend that I was genuinely attracted to. He seemed attracted to me also.

Unfortunetally, he kept saying and doing rude things that I felt were disrespectful and demeaning and so I would get turned off 

He also had a hot temper and eventually got deported back to Europe 

So, I'm still a virgin as far as guys go

I have found that older gay men are more accepting of me - especially the camp ones.....

The straight-acting 'macho' young gay men seem the most transphobic. But once again the camp ones are more accepting.

Annette xx

I get the impression that many people see others as potential sexual material.

I've noticed, when I'm with men at work, the talk is often about any women they see and if they would 'do her'.

The reality is, of course, that few if any of these men would get a look in from most of the women they oogle, but for them, it's an affirmation of their status within the pack.

Women also seem to do this, but more often, they tend to see other women in term of the competition they might present in attracting some specific guy.

So, for both men and women, homosexuals and transsexuals present additional possibilities.

Men, certainly to other men, seek to affirm their own manliness, by rejecting homosexuals and transexuals. I suspect they are more concerned with the show than their own feelings.

Women, on the other hand, seem to consider homosexuals and transexuals in terms of the potential competition they might present.

Personally, I usually, but not always successfully, avoid problems by making it clear that I'm not intersted in any relationships with anyone.

This is made easier by the simple reality that I'm really not.