Last night I shared more things about being transgender with my wife. It was a conversation that was coming up because she sees me dressed much more often. I was telling her that many transgender folks have known they were this way as children. I mentioned again my feelings of being different throughout my life. She listened intently as she tried to understand what I was saying.

I also shared with her that I can be transgender and Christian. It's my prayer that transgender people will take into account their spiritual condition. I do enjoy having these discussions because it helps her to see what it is to be transgender.

Gennee

It's tough Gennee, trying to explain what our reality is like to those who don't live the life.  There's so much misinformation out there you just want to erase everything they "know" and start with a fresh slate.

Anyway, I'm glad to hear you two are conversing and it seems reason and logic are prevailing.  Good for both of you!

Julie

Good for you, Gennee.  As long as you two are talking there is hope.

I could never explain it to my wife because I couldn't explain it to myself.  The more you understand what and who you are, the more you can explain it to others.

I'm not a Christian, but I don't see why being TG and Christian are incompatible.  Many who claim to be Christian aren't following Christ's teachings but some weird version that has developed over many years.  They claim the mantle of Christianity while preaching and living a gospel of hate.

I don't know if spirituality and openness to my own ->-bleeped-<- are related, but I have become more spiritual over the last few years.  Or perhaps I should say I have become more open to the spiritual aspects of the world and my existence in it, if that makes sense.  Perhaps it is that openness that has finally enabled me to be more open about what I am.

Anyway, I'm glad you are talking with your wife about this.  For me, being able to be open and honest with those I love is a blessing.

*hugs*
Kate

The ironic thing, given the general animosity between those who understand each individually but not the other, is that there is that in common between being a person of some religions faith and being transgendered.

Which is to say, if you are, you really can't make one who isn't understand what it is to be what you are. there's no common frame of reference.

Like the old say about "if I could explain it, no explanation would be necessary" (or something like that) so it is for both faith in the supernatural and our condition - if you aren't, you really can't grasp what's going on in the mind of those who are.

Hi Genee

I'm glad it's going OK. One step at a time. It will be a shock for her letting her know you are you and a loving person will help. I'm not a religous person but if you both are then that may help also. Maybe if you explain the God made you, and God loves you as it made you may help also. Sorry if that sounds dumb but as I said religion is not one of my strong points.

Safe Journey My Sister

Cindy

My wife told me last night that she read stories about transsexuals that had SRS and then became a Christian and suddenly wanted to be their old gender again. THat made me very sad. I'm a christian now and trying to cope with this and it is my horror to think that someday if I went thru SRS that I would at some point "repent" and be stuck in a woman's body trying to be a man all over again. Or as I can describe it better: Being able to finally be in the right gender and yet unable to enjoy it.

Hope the talk went well Genee. Good to see you on these boards too =)

Quote from: Jerica on August 27, 2009, 08:49:22 AM
My wife told me last night that she read stories about transsexuals that had SRS and then became a Christian and suddenly wanted to be their old gender again. THat made me very sad. I'm a christian now and trying to cope with this and it is my horror to think that someday if I went thru SRS that I would at some point "repent" and be stuck in a woman's body trying to be a man all over again. Or as I can describe it better: Being able to finally be in the right gender and yet unable to enjoy it.

Hope the talk went well Genee. Good to see you on these boards too =)

Might I ask what being a Christian has to do with it?

I am a practicing Anglican and quite accepted at church.  God does not see me as any different as the day I was born.

I was Christian before during and after transition.  I fail to see how "repentance" would cause a person to regret their transition.

-Sandy

Quote from: Sandy on August 27, 2009, 09:21:23 AM
Might I ask what being a Christian has to do with it?

Just what some view of it. I am not sure what to believe right now. The guys at my bible study, my wife, and my whole family all believe that I should keep fighting these feelings every day of my life and NOT transition because God made me this way, a man. I've also heard them say such things as this is an "idol" and that God would never want me to do this because it would ruin my marriage. Also that I should just suffer because that's what Jesus did. etc.

My arguments are weak compared to these. I agree God made me a man but he also allowed these things to happen to me throughout my babyhood and childhood. In the same way he allows hermaphrodites to be born. I realize that with hermaphrodites , it's all physical but I compare myself to that because for me it's physical and conditioned. But if a hermaphrodite can choose which gender they should present as, why can't I?

Quote from: Jerica on August 27, 2009, 09:28:57 AM
Just what some view of it. I am not sure what to believe right now. The guys at my bible study, my wife, and my whole family all believe that I should keep fighting these feelings every day of my life and NOT transition because God made me this way, a man. I've also heard them say such things as this is an "idol" and that God would never want me to do this because it would ruin my marriage. Also that I should just suffer because that's what Jesus did. etc.

My arguments are weak compared to these. I agree God made me a man but he also allowed these things to happen to me throughout my babyhood and childhood. In the same way he allows hermaphrodites to be born. I realize that with hermaphrodites , it's all physical but I compare myself to that because for me it's physical and conditioned. But if a hermaphrodite can choose which gender they should present as, why can't I?

*sigh*

God made you a man and you should stay that way.

OK.

How about when God made someone diabetic?  They shouldn't change or correct their condition and die a horrible death, because "God made them that way?"  They should fight their feelings that the sugar in their blood is not being absorbed and they should pray to have it magically ingested into their cells.

This isn't something you "become".  This is something you ARE.  This isn't a choice.  This isn't a fad.

More and more scientific evidence is showing that this is a known brain wiring condition.  This is the way we are born.

You cannot pray this away anymore than you can "pray the gay away".

I cannot diagnose your particular situation.  But if you feel severe gender dysphoria, then seek the advice of a proper gender therapist.  One who is affiliated with WPATH  preferably.  They can help you understand your feelings and needs and help you cope.  There are many options.  Get proper information.

-Sandy

Yep that's what I'm trying to do. I need to see all points of view before I make a decision and yet they would deny me this right for some reason.

God made me a woman but gave me a man's body, perhaps as a test.  And perhaps I've passed that test, because now He has opened doors for me to finally be the woman He intended.

I agree with Sandy.  This is not like greed, avarice, etc., which are behaviors we can fight against and repent from.  This is a trait, like having blue eyes or being left-handed.  (Did you know that the religious used to shun left-handed people because they were thought to be of the devil?)  This is how we were born.  Should we try to get all pale-skinned people to repent because Jesus was probably medium-brown or olive-skinned?

- Kate

Quote from: Jerica on August 27, 2009, 09:28:57 AM
Just what some view of it. I am not sure what to believe right now. The guys at my bible study, my wife, and my whole family all believe that I should keep fighting these feelings every day of my life and NOT transition because God made me this way, a man. I've also heard them say such things as this is an "idol" and that God would never want me to do this because it would ruin my marriage. Also that I should just suffer because that's what Jesus did. etc.

My arguments are weak compared to these. I agree God made me a man but he also allowed these things to happen to me throughout my babyhood and childhood. In the same way he allows hermaphrodites to be born. I realize that with hermaphrodites , it's all physical but I compare myself to that because for me it's physical and conditioned. But if a hermaphrodite can choose which gender they should present as, why can't I?

I wouldn't presume to debate about the "ruin your marriage" discussion - that's to intensely specific to each persons life, but laying that aside, and speaking as a person who has been a believer since childhood and who fought it for over 30 years because the church told me what I was was perverted and wrong, and that I could be "healed"...

The "God made you this way" argument has a very obvious answer - more than one in fact.

first, if you say "god made" a person whatever way it is that that person is born, then you are saying "god made" the blind child blind, god made the Downs Syndrome baby with that disability, "god made" the child with spina bifida with that very debilitating condition, "god made" the child with some condition that takes it's life before it's six months old.

Is that what these people wish to contend? does God REALLY intentionally MAKE people with birth defects? or does he ALLOW nature to take it's course even when the course goes awry for some reason?

Following on from that though, whether god "made" the blind child blind or allowed it - if science says "we can give this child sight" will we, as Christians say "No, God made him blind, he must remain blind"?
Would the Christian response to the child born with some crippling, curable, condition be "You should suffer as Jesus suffered"?
I suspect that there are very very very few, if any, who would say these things.

If not, then you have put yourself in the place of judging which defect is acceptable to aid and which a person must "endure" - how do we presume to have the wisdom to make such a judgment on the suffering of others?

In this I think the whole "god made you this way and you should live with it" argument collapses like a house of cards.

Another line of reasoning is this: IF god doesn't want you to be that way and IF god can heal you of your "perversion" then, with all due respect, what's the hold up? I myself did everything I could think of to be the most dedicated most faithful Christian I could, and implored him for many many years to take it from me - if the Christian God is the merciful being I believe him to be, there is NO logic in "making you suffer" and put up with something that he can heal and doesn't want you to be.

The simple reality that he doesn't, illustrates something about what his will is on the matter.


Beyond and besides that, the Bible tells us over and over that God is concerned with the things of the spirit - as I reflect on this subject after having found the teaching I had listened to all my life inadequate, I have to ask the question - if God is concerned with our spiritual condition, why would he have any interest in our physical form?

Finally, it's a good idea, when discussing these thing in Bible study to make sure your friends put things in their proper context. In particular - it must be noted that the Old Testament verses often quoted are nestled amongst a long list of Levitical instructions that no one except orthodox Jews still follow. The people using that text have no grounds to do so unless the keep a kosher diet and follow all the other rules laid out there (like not wearing clothing of mixed fabrics)

I hope you find some of this helpful.

Laura, you bring up some good points. A friend of mine studies the OT  in relation to same-sex relationships. I have studied it in relation to crossdressing and ->-bleeped-<-. Though there's nothing specific about ->-bleeped-<-, I have done some reading about eunuchs. In Isaiah, they are included in the kingdom of God. 

One thing many folks forget is the context the Levitical laws were written. That's why they have done much damage to transgender people and misrepresent God with their wrong headed  ideas about the Levitical law.

Gennee