I have always been a little interested in transpeople who, once they get the surgery, have an issue with the standard "gay" population. Of course, this would have to be, for example, an MtF who is attracted to males and considers herself a straight woman.

Now, I know that we have a general LGBT umbrella term, but sometimes that doesn't work because there are bi-phobic homosexuals (and straights), transphobic bi's and gay's, and homophobic transfolk. It is not always one LGBT community where everyone is friends and having a gay ol' time (no pun intended). 

For instance, I was recently talking to a friend who is a professional drag queen, who is a gay male, and he was telling me that he had a friend who was MtF and once she had the surgery, she felt that she was superior to homosexuals, and their issues didn't apply to her. She was married to a man.

Apparently, when gay marriage was legalized in Canada a few years ago, she made more than a few very negative comments on the fact that gays could now get married.

This actually isn't the first time I have heard of this happening. What are all of your thoughts an it? Can this be fixed? Why the hostility?? I sort of see where they are coming from, but I kind of don't lol

Chrissi

Some people are stupid. Currently, Smarts Reassignment Surgery has a 0% success rate.

I have feelings about this topic. Second only to my doctor, I have personally gotten the most grief from gay men. This probably has something to do with the company I keep, but they seem to look at transexuals...differently. When I identified as trans my partner and our friends all thought it was neat. When I started dressing they accepted me into their group and made me feel as comfortable as I could in public, because I'm a pretty damn homely woman and needed all the help and confidence I could get. When I started growing breasts they all abandoned me. I wasn't one of them anymore, and it hurt, a lot. None of my gay friends stuck by me, one by one they have lost contact over the last 6 months. The man I had shared a home and bed with for years and years beat the living daylights out of me, after never having laid a hand on me in anger or even so much as called me a name for the duration of our relationship.

So currently it just so happens that all I have are straight people and one or two transexual women in my very small circle of friends. Frankly, I have made no effort nor have any desire to rejoin the community. Gay men don't like women, they like men. A healthy gay couple does not have one member wishing he was female, they are quite happy being boys. We are different from them on a fundamental level, and people react to those differences in their own ways. I can't say what that woman's motivation was, maybe she thought opposing gay marriage would make her more stealth, I dunno or care, everyone is entitled to their opinion, even ignorant ones. We aren't the same creatures, it's society that lumps us together. Our political fates are joined, but really, in my opinion, that's where the similarities end.

Quote from: Becca on August 28, 2009, 02:38:27 AM
I have feelings about this topic. Second only to my doctor, I have personally gotten the most grief from gay men. This probably has something to do with the company I keep, but they seem to look at transexuals...differently. When I identified as trans my partner and our friends all thought it was neat. When I started dressing they accepted me into their group and made me feel as comfortable as I could in public, because I'm a pretty damn homely woman and needed all the help and confidence I could get. When I started growing breasts they all abandoned me. I wasn't one of them anymore, and it hurt, a lot. None of my gay friends stuck by me, one by one they have lost contact over the last 6 months. The man I had shared a home and bed with for years and years beat the living daylights out of me, after never having laid a hand on me in anger or even so much as called me a name for the duration of our relationship.

So currently it just so happens that all I have are straight people and one or two transexual women in my very small circle of friends. Frankly, I have made no effort nor have any desire to rejoin the community. Gay men don't like women, they like men. A healthy gay couple does not have one member wishing he was female, they are quite happy being boys. We are different from them on a fundamental level, and people react to those differences in their own ways. I can't say what that woman's motivation was, maybe she thought opposing gay marriage would make her more stealth, I dunno or care, everyone is entitled to their opinion, even ignorant ones. We aren't the same creatures, it's society that lumps us together. Our political fates are joined, but really, in my opinion, that's where the similarities end.

Totally and completely agree. When I'm in a Gay bar (cos they are safe) I'm accepted as a "Gay in a dress" when I explain I'm a woman and wish to live as a woman physicaly and mentally; I'm outcast.

I'll apologise for this 'cos I do not wish to cause offence. Most Drag Queens and babes, are Gay Men who are making a (semi-)comedic charicature of females. They are not (usually) TG; I am NOT a drag queen. I really do not want to run around looking like Prisicella QofD. I'm a woman god damn it.

For a DQ to say he will marry a TG is to me odd. He is either marrying a guy who has had surgical intervention, or he is not gay. Then again I'm a liberal, people can and should love who they want.

I have nothing against LBGT but I do see a line in the sand sometimes. I think this has also been one of the problems in the clashes between G and L.


My opinions may be affected by a few Merlot

Cindy

Quote from: heatherrose on August 28, 2009, 05:20:24 AM

The only thing you need to apologize for is not knowing
that Priscilla was the name of the bus.

So that's why my bum looked big?

You saying I have a bum the size of a bus?


I'm joking and tired, the jokes don't always work!!

Some of it has to be overcompensation.

for me it is inside the LGTB community where i find myself comfortable and safe. but it is true that those that are the most friendly or understanding toward me tend to be the L.

There is a fundamental difference in the LGBT comminities in that LGB is sexual orientation and the type we are sexually attracted to and the T is gender identity. Quite different altogether and that's why we are not understood and accepted by some LGB people, particularly if we are heterosexual in sexual orientation.

To be honest I have been to some LGBT events usually the T is tagged on the end and I felt so out of place because its not about my sexual orientation. Also being connected in this way may also confuse the general public about the issue of transsexualism. 

Stardust

Quote from: Becca on August 28, 2009, 02:38:27 AMWe are different from them on a fundamental level, and people react to those differences in their own ways. I can't say what that woman's motivation was, maybe she thought opposing gay marriage would make her more stealth, I dunno or care, everyone is entitled to their opinion, even ignorant ones. We aren't the same creatures, it's society that lumps us together. Our political fates are joined, but really, in my opinion, that's where the similarities end.

I share your opinion.

Barbie~~

Quote from: stardust on August 28, 2009, 01:50:45 PM
There is a fundamental difference in the LGBT comminities in that LGB is sexual orientation and the type we are sexually attracted to and the T is gender identity. Quite different altogether and that's why we are not understood and accepted by some LGB people, particularly if we are heterosexual in sexual orientation.

To be honest I have been to some LGBT events usually the T is tagged on the end and I felt so out of place because its not about my sexual orientation. Also being connected in this way may also confuse the general public about the issue of transsexualism. 

Stardust

This has been my experience too. The worst have been "Pride" events.. I never could feel comfortable and stopped going after only a few years.

One difference between sexuality and gender identity is that with the latter you can't hide. I have had to educate some gay and lesbian folks about transgender and what it is. The gender binary system contributes to this also.

I find that gays and lesbians overcompensate on the masculinity and femininity. At times it can come off as being phony even though it isn't meant to be that way. There's the attitude in the trans community where those who have had the surgery feel they are superior to those who don't. I've seen this plenty of times. IMHO, their insecurities come through with such an attitude.

Gennee

There's no question that I get more grief from lesbians than any other group, and am not treated well by gay men either.  Lesbians seem about 50/50 for acceptance, but those that don't are really intolerant.  Gay men are about 90% unaccepting, but keep quiet about it, to my face.  Crap rolls downhill, and alot of gay people want to take out their frustrations on those they deem to be below them in the social hierarchy.

I support, and am an activist for gay rights - but I don't like gay people in general.

Quote from: gennee on August 28, 2009, 03:18:47 PM
There's the attitude in the trans community where those who have had the surgery feel they are superior to those who don't.

I've noticed this too, but I don't think it's necessarily a 'better than you' attitude. Rather, they don't just hand the surgery out to anyone who asks for it, for most it seems to be an accomplishment they worked hard and long for. I could see not wanting to get emotionally involved with people who aren't showing the survival skills they did; let's face it we have a disease of sorts, once it's cured I can hardly blame the survivors for not hanging around the ward constantly catching glimpses of their past selves in various stages. I'm not saying it's right or wrong really, just understandable.

The peculiar part is how the gay and lesbian community, well versed in being discriminated against and marginalized tends to react to us. These days in some circles it's almost cool to be gay, and they seem to have bought right into it and forgotten how much it used to suck to be them.

Barbie, my god, that dress is to die for. I'd love to be able to wear a summer outfit like that but my fat lil legs say noooo. Lovin lovin 

Quote from: GinaDouglas on August 28, 2009, 05:26:10 PM

I support, and am an activist for gay rights - but I don't like gay people in general.

That's cool. I mean, I'm no activist, but I do support them, however I don't necessarily like them.

I don't really get why some gay people think they are better than trans ppl, I don't think that it has to be a "who's better than the other" but each road has it's pros and cons.

Eh. I'm going to sound arrogant saying this, but I don't really have much to talk to gay folks about. I mean, even if I came out to them, it would just be like... "Hey! I'm trans!" "Oh, that's neat!" And I still wouldn't really have much to say. I mean, I'm not adversed to making friends with any I meet, but I'm not going to actively seek them out at bars or whatever. You can only get so much conversation from having had the same anatomy/sexual orientation combo at one point.

Plus, I'm not really into the culture. But then, lots of gay people I know are not into gay culture either. So... Yeah. Anyway, TS people who are outright bigoted are probably just insecure and trying to distance themselves. And if they are doing that, they are probably thinking about trans issues a lot more then I do.

I think gay people are more united than trans people. Transpeople are far more diverse in gender presentation and sexual orientation than gay people, making it difficult for transpeople to be together under a common umbrella.

Jealousy could be a factor. I remember a few transsexual people here in my country hated me so much to confess that they just can't like me because I have something inborn effortlessly, which they have invested so much money and effort to achieve. Most supporting people have been my female colleagues or GG friends, and my wife, although a few of them were indeed of bigotry.

Becca. Thanks. I could wear it outdoors freely and fearlessly because I was with a GG friend who accepts me as transgender person so well and also took photos for me there in Seattle last year. I shopped with her to pick up the one-pience dress at < $30. She is now working with me at the same department. I said to her that I could not wear it in my country, and she said it is understandable.

Barbie~~