He's due to give his congressional address within a half hour. Just wondering if anyone else here is watching and wishes to comment. He's been appealing way too much to the moderates for me. But that's pretty much what I expected.

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Post Merge: September 09, 2009, 08:26:37 PM

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The republican response is a pathetic joke. They are finally admitting something needs to get done but, still playing the same stalling, scare tactics as usual to stymie reform. You'd have to be complete imbicile to buy in to anything they say after all the demagoguery of the past months.

I thought Obama gave a great speech, he hit all the points and addressed everyone's concernes with care and sensitivity. I just don't think it was forceful enough. Since he's been in office he's grown timid and even less presidential than he appeared as a candidate. I didn't vote for him just to see another Jimmy Carter.

I will never lose my faith, I'm just sick of this cowering to the right wing morons.

Obama math is a pie in the sky.

They need to reform the corporate world and the government agencies before they tackle the health care industry. The money just is not there to pay for more than we barely can pay for now. Someone has to come up with the short end of the stick, Who?

I thought it was a good speech. But not a great one, and we needed a great one.

But the Dems have the votes if they push it, and they ought to push it, or be replaced.

Does Pelosi have the votes?

http://drudgereport.com/flashwc.htm

Keep in mind the above is before the speech, but it still gives a good idea of the obstacles in the Speakers way.

Oh she has the votes, the problem is in the Senate, where the 'Pubs are enamored with what they used to call 'the nuclear option' and I think we ought to call them on it.

P.S. Matt Drudge is about as reliable as FreeRepublic, where he is often quoted.

There is a way to do this, it's called, hard ball politics.

...2010 will be interesting.

Not if he wins this, do this, all the rest will go by the wayside.  Lose this (and given that he has 2 more times to try) and he might lose the primary, I doubt it, but he will be challenged.  But from the other side, there is no real competition.  So its a democratic deal all the way.

I am listening to his speech right now, missed it live since I was at work.  I'm about halfway through the speech, and I'm not impressed TBH.  I have to agree with Tekla, he should have been more forceful, and it needed to be a greater speech.

Both my mom and I work in health care.  We don't want this to pass if it's not going to really change things.

Also...too much clapping!!  Stop clapping you idiots, just do your jobs right.

Fae, Tekla didn't say Obama needed to be more forceful, I said it. What Tekla said is the Dems have the votes and they need to push it, if not they need to be replaced. I agree. This lesson should have been learned long ago.

Quote from: Princess Phoebe on September 10, 2009, 12:19:10 AM
Fae, Tekla didn't say Obama needed to be more forceful, I said it. What Tekla said is the Dems have the votes and they need to push it, if not they need to be replaced. I agree. This lesson should have been learned long ago.

Ah, my apologies Phoebe.  I agree with both of you. 

Quote from: Fae on September 10, 2009, 12:25:31 AM
Ah, my apologies Phoebe.  I agree with both of you. 

No apology needed, Hon. The issue has just been thrown way off track and obfuscated to the point nobody can really discuss it anymore in reasonable terms.

I have friends who are actually the recipients of government-run health care in one form or another, or their loved ones get it, and they are bitching and whining about "socialism"...it's infuriating. I say give it up! Pay out of pocket for you and your grandma for "free market" health care if you think it's so great. Of course they change the subject then to some nonsense like Death Panels...argh!!!

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Post Merge: September 10, 2009, 02:50:07 AM

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Just so we are all straight, here's the live C-SPAN coverage
http://www.c-span.org/Watch/Media/2009/09/09/HP/A/22900/Pres+Obamas+Health+Care+Speech+to+JointSession+of+Congress.aspx

This was a great speech.  The final ten minutes were the best case for liberalism in America that I've ever heard. 

He laid out a very reasoned plan and I think if he can get it through, it will be good for most Americans.

The Republicans just look childish now.

It was a good speech. The thing that stood out to me the most was two of the arguably most powerful women in American politics (Speaker Pelosi and Hillary) wearing the same suit. I wish Hillary had been the one giving that speech, or wait, no, there would be no speech because this crap would be done already. I love Obama and everything but he needs to quit being so wimpy and diplomatic and get down to business.

Quote from: Becca on September 10, 2009, 04:00:05 AMI love Obama and everything but he needs to quit being so wimpy and diplomatic and get down to business.

I totally agree. Enough is enough with this nonsense.

I wish Hillary had been the one giving that speech, or wait, no, there would be no speech because this crap would be done already.

Ummmm, historically speaking, didn't she fail to deliver this once already?  Thought so.

This is not easy, it wasn't easy back when FDR, Truman, Johnson and Clinton all tried and failed.  The money on the other side is huge, and mostly unregulated.  And not about to go down without a a fight.  Hell, most of what is really being fought here is not the public option - its the regulation of insurance companies.


What I would have loved to see him to was to ask the Republicans (easy to spot, those would be the old grumpy white guys in dark colored suits) if they had the courage of their convictions, and if so, how many of them - opposing a government run system and all - would give up their government run coverage for themselves and their families?  You know, cause it's so bad and all.

The point was that the speech was based on faith that many people do not have.
The simple solution to the difference between facts and misjudgments is to only implement the savings parts of the bill. Then in one year measure the savings. If the savings meet projections then implement the rest of the bill. If not back to the drawing board and start working with facts instead of the misjudgments stated in the speech

Your point is fair enough Tekla.

I don't know about the initial savings thing, it seems to me that people going untreated and procedures going undone would likely get caught up in the first couple years, so really they wouldn't be a reflection of the overall health of the system.

Personally I hope he is successful.  But I was not too impressed that he made his case.  Sorry.  I think we are still talking about so many generalizations, that it is quite difficult to even debate.

I found this analysis interesting:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_care_fact_check

Kristi

You put 40 million people that can not afford health coverage in the system who is going to take care of them? There are long waiting line now. Who is going to pay their costs? Medicare is now going bankrupt.
For instance people that work at walmart and do buy their insurance can not even afford the deductible to go to a doctor unless they have a second income.
My brother died because he did not want to stick the ER with a bill he could not pay. Some people have morals. Even the office of budget tells the savings are not going to cover the costs.
Now take those polite programs to reduce mal practice cost one of the largest parts of medical care. It is just a polite in a few states and not a cost saver to the wide system He never once used the words Tort reform.
Then add the pre existing people that are the high risk high cost to the system and everyone will have to pay higher premiums.
Now he wants to force young people to pay insurance premiums most young people barely can support them selves and no extra to buy insurance. Then take the official 9.7 % unemployed ( collecting unemployment money)looking for work that will only get lesser pay jobs and add the 11 percent discouraged job hunters and then the 6 % of job seekers that ran out unemployment checks.
Tell me where is the money coming from as the tax base is declining and people can not even afford to pay rent?

The really important item is the automatic spending cuts. Democrats have been complaining for some time that the Congressional Budget Office has refused to score hypothetical savings from various programs. Though the president claims that he can pay for most of the bill through cutting "waste, fraud and abuse," the C.B.O. will almost certainly take a dimmer view. The automatic spending cuts potentially allow them to assume that these savings will happen.


No one disputes that the $2.3 trillion we devote to the health care industry is often spent unwisely, but the fact that the United States spends twice as much per person as most European countries on health care can be substantially explained, as a study released last month says, by our being fatter. Even the most efficient health care system that the administration could hope to devise would still confront a rising tide of chronic disease linked to diet.

That's why our success in bringing health care costs under control ultimately depends on whether Washington can summon the political will to take on and reform a second, even more powerful industry: the food industry. 

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Post Merge: September 10, 2009, 03:36:15 PM

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Mean while the Supreme Court is hearing a case on corporations effecting elections. Can they use their unlimited wallet to support the election of the candidate that will be most favorable to them?

Stop the war in Iraq.  Stop the war in Afghanistan.  Reinstate the old tax rates that Bush et. all, let the richest 10% of the nation get out of paying.  Legalize marijuana, let the people out of jail who are serving time for it, and tax the sales of it.  Do that and you'll be swimming in cash.  All you need, and even more and more than that.

All of those things are favored and supported by the American Public in majority numbers.