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How Important Is Changing The World to TGs?

Started by Julie Marie, September 10, 2009, 10:39:22 AM

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Alyssa M.

Quote from: Nero on September 10, 2009, 07:57:43 PM
I'm still on the fence concerning this. It's not that it's not important to me, but is it more important than just being seen as an ordinary guy? I don't know. I don't want to be 'transman Joe' but 'Joe, the man who just happens to be trans'.

This post provoked me to think about this a bit more.

This is at the heart of the reason that activism is needed, not just for trans or LGBT people, but for any group. Rosa Parks was just "tired," or so she said -- tired from work and tired from oppression. I'm sure she would have much rather have "just happened to be" a black woman. But she couldn't; society wouldn't let her, America wouldn't, the law wouldn't, the world wouldn't. That's why there was a civil rights movement.

There's a fight to be had today for civil rights for trans people and for ending bigotry against us. If we don't fight, who will? Just wishing that the problems will go away won't solve them. The only question is how each of us can make the best difference.

Well, I'm a terrible leader and organizer. And I see this site as organized more for support than activism. Other sites -- activist blogs, sites affiliated with activist groups, personal sites like Lynn Conway's, etc., are better organized for discussion of activist topics. Might someone have a suggestion for how activity on Susan's forums can lead to more effective activism?

My contribution is to try to present an image of transgender to the world that is both non-confrontational and unapologetic, to make it clear to those that might have reservations about accepting transgendered people that they are simply wrong in their views, and to encourage those that feel cowed in their views in support of the transgendered.

I know people who do a lot more. I wish I could, but I just don't have their talent for activist leadership.
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another.

   - Anatole France
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tekla

Most of the work in any activism deal is not being the poster child - so many people in here remind me of what Alice Roosevelt said about her dad, Teddy: He wanted to be the bride at every wedding and the corpse at every funeral - its booking the meetings, setting up the chairs, preparing the materials, making phone calls, making the coffee, cleaning up, typing up the minutes and notes, writing thank you cards, nothing as glamorous as being a poster child.  When I stage managed the Cotillion the only time anyone saw me was when I swept the stage, other than that, I was in the back, in the dark, with a headset on talking with the crew.

And I don't think a lot of activism is accomplished on the web, or no real good activism.  Most of it is done, as it always has been, face to face, one on one.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Julie Marie

Quote from: Alyssa M. on September 11, 2009, 01:59:35 AM
This post provoked me to think about this a bit more.

This is at the heart of the reason that activism is needed, not just for trans or LGBT people, but for any group. Rosa Parks was just "tired," or so she said -- tired from work and tired from oppression. I'm sure she would have much rather have "just happened to be" a black woman. But she couldn't; society wouldn't let her, America wouldn't, the law wouldn't, the world wouldn't. That's why there was a civil rights movement.

There's a fight to be had today for civil rights for trans people and for ending bigotry against us. If we don't fight, who will? Just wishing that the problems will go away won't solve them. The only question is how each of us can make the best difference.

Well, I'm a terrible leader and organizer. And I see this site as organized more for support than activism. Other sites -- activist blogs, sites affiliated with activist groups, personal sites like Lynn Conway's, etc., are better organized for discussion of activist topics. Might someone have a suggestion for how activity on Susan's forums can lead to more effective activism?

My contribution is to try to present an image of transgender to the world that is both non-confrontational and unapologetic, to make it clear to those that might have reservations about accepting transgendered people that they are simply wrong in their views, and to encourage those that feel cowed in their views in support of the transgendered.

I know people who do a lot more. I wish I could, but I just don't have their talent for activist leadership.

Alyssa, you've stated this better than I've been able to.  Thank you.

What you pointed out is exactly what I was thinking when I started this thread.  None of want to be seen as trans, only as who we are and how we feel inside.  Unfortunately, that's not possible for all of us.  We still carry gender markers from our past that may not ever be erased.  For those about whom this is true, there is little chance of achieving the goal of being stealth and being "just a man" or "just a woman".

But if we all worked on giving the world a positive image that represents us as we know we are, we should see, maybe in our lifetime, a time when it doesn't matter if you have a birth gender different from who you are.  People may know but they won't care.  It will be a non-issue, at least as far as people's attitude about WHO you are goes.

Society sees the person born with one leg shorter than the other who undergoes surgery to correct it as someone who did what they needed to do to function better and live a happier life.  When the TG stigma is erased, it would be the same for trans people.  We did what we had to do.  They may think, "I'm glad I don't have to do that" but they won't think, "That's pretty screwed up!"

When I go out I rarely go to places I know are TG friendly.  I live in mostly Republican county just west of Chicago and there are no TG friendly places here.  And I'm not going to live the life of a hermit.  So I go where I want to go when I need or want to go.  And at times I get "the look".  Oh well.  But I make a point of being pleasant with everyone I come into contact with and try to engage them in conversation when I can.  My voice ain't that great but I don't let that get in my way.  If they believe me to be trans but walk away with a better impression of TGs than they had before they met me, I've made a positive difference.

You don't have to be a serious activist to make a difference.  All you have to do is present yourself well to those you encounter.  It may not be as effective as aggressive activism but it's better than hoping things will get better.

Julie
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
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Ms Bev

#23
This is a cut from a different thread, and maybe it fits a little better here, pls pardon parts that seem off topic...........

[Last night we] went to bed and flipped on the TV for a short while, and low and behold, in the episode of HOUSE on Fox network, a beautiful young woman was diagnosed with AIS.  And what was the response to their discovery?  House tells her she is a man...."a pseudo-hermaphrodite"
"No...."she says..."I'm a beautiful girl"....sobs.......
"No....you're a man. Or a woman....the perfect woman....a man"   Then refers to her in a decidedly creeped-out way to the nurses attending as "her-she-him-whatever.....herm".  "At least her father will stop having sex with her, now that he knows  she's a guy"

So, kids......that's what really matters.  Today's society in general is all about being creeped out by transgender and transsexual PEOPLE, and have a tendency to treat us without the dignity we deserve as fellow people.
Why should Fox network  promote such a story line, unresolved bigotry included?  No, I'm not saying they should have to teach or preach, but they should be held accountable for portraying us as less than people, and  apparently honestly believing it themselves.

Another show.....a cop show....I dunno, maybe a year ago.  Detectives find a dead transwoman, legs splayed open on a makeshift operating table in a garage....abandoned, unreported.  The poor woman is desperate enough to let a quack surgeon change her genitalia, and gives her life for it.  So.......the characters are shocked, sickened, saddened........so far, so good.
Then the detective interviews a transwoman friend.  He tells her he knows she's ts, and the jig's up.  So the transwoman 'comes clean', and begins speaking in her male voice....'her real voice'.
Things like this make me soooo angry!  And it won't change.  Society at large will view us as less than human as long as we allow it.

I've worked with a number of people who were creeped out, or thought me to be a novelty.   But it's very rare that a customer will read me.....as far as I know.   Many of the people who were there when I transitioned are still there, mixed in with a lot of new faces.  So I'm not stealth at all to the employees, just the customers.  But push to shove, I'll state who I am with dignity and pride.  Once, one guy I worked with brought his wife into the store under some pretense.  She came, she saw, she left, then minutes later, came for a second look.
I whispered to a female friend, "I usually sell tickets to my freak  show"
She said, "...please Bev......don't make a scene...."
I love her very much, but maybe, just maybe, I should have told him then and there....."I usually sell tickets"
Well, there's always a next time.   
I've determined to speak out, speak up, and be heard by anyone who verbalizes anything wrong about my gender or my sex, and then if they ask, teach them about it.  I certainly don't want situations like this, and generally spend my existence blending in with the rest of the real people.  But, until people are taught to treat us with the respect we deserve, we will remain 3rd-class citizens.  And, like I said, there's always a next time.

*Bristle*

1.) If you're skating on thin ice, you might as well dance. 
Bev
2.) The more I talk to my married friends, the more I
     appreciate  having a wife.
Marcy
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Julie Marie

I saw that House episode.  Everyone else in the show was pretty decent but when House made that comment I was pretty ticked off.  But it did exemplify how poorly we are portrayed in the media and when we actually find something on TV that is sensitive AND accurate, we're thinking 'pinch me, I'm dreaming!"

It will be a long time before we're accepted.  How long depends on how many people work to create a more positive image.

Julie
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
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Sandy

Quote from: Julie Marie on September 14, 2009, 02:00:27 PM
I saw that House episode.  Everyone else in the show was pretty decent but when House made that comment I was pretty ticked off.  But it did exemplify how poorly we are portrayed in the media and when we actually find something on TV that is sensitive AND accurate, we're thinking 'pinch me, I'm dreaming!"

It will be a long time before we're accepted.  How long depends on how many people work to create a more positive image.

Julie


I read the episode two ways.

One, was as it appears on its face, that it is transphobic and disrespectful.

Two, that House had lost all respect for the girl because she seduced her father so that she could get her way.  He has reacted in a similar manner to others when he disapproved of someone.

Regardless though, she did not have to be portrayed in a stereotypical way of being a sex-crazed maniac who would use her body to get her way.  It did little to move the story line and made the issues regarding AIS confusing.

-Sandy
Out of the darkness, into the light.
Following my bliss.
I am complete...
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Tammy Hope

It's also worth noting that House is an a**hole to EVERYONE. That's who he is.

It would have been strikingly out of character if he HAD treated the girl respectfully.
Disclaimer: due to serious injury, most of my posts are made via Dragon Dictation which sometimes butchers grammar and mis-hears my words. I'm also too lazy to closely proof-read which means some of my comments will seem strange.


http://eachvoicepub.com/PaintedPonies.php
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Steph

QuoteHow Important Is Changing The World to TGs?

I would imagine that it would be very important to those who are transitioning, and probably not so important to many who have transitioned.  Of course I am speaking as a former TS.  However other groups who fall under the TG umbrella (CD's, TV's, etc.) may have a different view.

-={LR}=-
Enjoy life and be happy.  You won't be back.

WARNING: This body contains nudity, sexuality, and coarse language. Viewer discretion is advised. And I tend to rub folks the wrong way cause I say it as I see it...

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tekla

Then again, you just might be lazy.  After all, lots of people fought and worked for this, why should you be bothered?

But, if I got one law passed, a minor one, stating that all legal documents stand as written - which would revert you DL/Passport/BC to 'male' I bet you'd be at Border's trying to by a copy of Protesting for Dummies when they open the next morning.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Mister

House insults everyone with every condition under the sun.  Treating a TG individual any differently would be the discriminatory practice.
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tekla

I know its a mighty fine line to draw for a lot of people here, but there is a difference between reality and television.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Sandy

Quote from: tekla on September 15, 2009, 01:00:00 AM
I know its a mighty fine line to draw for a lot of people here, but there is a difference between reality and television.

Huh? ? ?

-Sandy(will return after a word from our sponsor)
Out of the darkness, into the light.
Following my bliss.
I am complete...
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noir

Quote from: tekla on September 15, 2009, 01:00:00 AM
I know its a mighty fine line to draw for a lot of people here, but there is a difference between reality and television.

Yes, and no, tekla. Television/Media has this ability to mimic reality in some shape or form. Yeah, hey, I'm sorry but it's true.

What House did wasn't out of character, so I'm actually happy he didn't start sobbing at her knees, and tell her how sorry he was for all her troubles.
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Miniar

There's that old saying, something about life imitating art imitating life.
There's a difference between tv and reality, but the two affect each other undeniably.



"Everyone who has ever built anywhere a new heaven first found the power thereto in his own hell" - Nietzsche
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Julie Marie

Quote from: tekla on September 15, 2009, 12:53:02 AM
Then again, you just might be lazy.  After all, lots of people fought and worked for this, why should you be bothered?

But, if I got one law passed, a minor one, stating that all legal documents stand as written - which would revert your DL/Passport/BC to 'male' I bet you'd be at Border's trying to by a copy of Protesting for Dummies when they open the next morning.

Yeah, when it breaks down your door and slams you to the ground, you respond a lot differently than if you read about it happening to someone else.

From talking to CDs, their attitude (in general) is the risk isn't worth it.  Being outed and being able to present as they want or the closet.  They mostly choose the closet.  Those who can be stealth respond pretty much the same way.  They don't want to be outed.  So, if you have trouble passing, too bad.  You're on your own.  And yes, stealth is another closet.

Julie
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
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Mister

And yes, stealth is another closet.

Sorry, I have to disagree with you there.  I've been stealth for a few years now and feel in no way like I'm hiding or repressing anything.  IME, the people who feel this way do not have the option of being stealth anyway.
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Julie Marie

By my definition, stealth means no one knows of your past.  So that means you have to keep all information about your past to yourself.

If you have to hide your birth gender, you're in the closet, just a different one that when you were hiding your gender identity.

Julie
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
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Mister

As someone who considers his past to be a medical issue, there's no hiding to be done.  I typically don't tell everyone I know that I broke a finger when I was 4, nor do I tell them this.  They're of equal significance to me. 

Besides, since when did the concept of privacy become a closet?
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tekla

There's a difference between tv and reality, but the two affect each other undeniably.

ONLY IF YOU WATCH IT.  Kinda like heroin will change your personality, but only if you do it. A lot.

At any rate, there is a reason its called 'programing' don't 'cha think?  There are many surveys that say the people who don't watch TV are generally happier and less paranoid then those who watch at moderate levels - and people who watch at high levels tend to be very paranoid.

Numerous content analyses have documented that the number of violent acts on American network TV greatly exceeds the amount of real-world violence (e.g., Diefenbach & West, 2001). In turn, heavy TV viewers: (a) overestimate the incidence of serious crime in society (first-order effects), and (b) are more likely to believe that the world is a mean place where people cannot be trusted and are just looking out for themselves (second-order effects; Gerbner et al., 2002; Gerbner, Gross, Morgan, & Signorielli, 1980).

Personality traits, television viewing, and the cultivation effect
Journal of Broadcasting & Electronic Media, Sept, 2008 by Robin L. Nabi, Karyn Riddle
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Julie Marie

Quote from: Mister on September 15, 2009, 10:39:04 AM
Besides, since when did the concept of privacy become a closet?

When it means not being able to talk about years or even decades of your past.  When you have to be careful about how you word things, what you say and keeping aware of anything that may reveal your past.  That's keeping things in the closet, which is the same thing LGBT people do prior to coming out and the same thing Jews did while living in Nazi Germany. 

It's not a bad thing or anything to be embarrassed about, it's just a fact of life if you're living in today's society.  There are repercussions if you out yourself.  But if you don't, you are in the closet.  No criticism, just a fact.

Now, taking the attitude, "I'll let everyone else do the dirty work while I enjoy the fruits of their labor", WILL earn you some criticism. (general statement - not saying you did that)

Julie
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
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