Yeah, it sucks. I've found that the most intelligent and decent of folk sometimes have a hard time making the translation from one gender to another when dealing with someone who has transitioned. Their mind has been trained to think of you one way and it's hard to make the leap in the other direction. I try to have patience with well-meaning people even if they are clueless. It's not easy, and I imagine having to live with someone who doesn't readily get it could be maddening. Good luck, and try to have patience. It sounds like he's not being malevolent, just clueless. He'll get it in time, hopefully, and when he does it will be better for you if you took a more gentle approach along the way.

Quote from: Laura91 on September 21, 2009, 09:27:47 AM
I suppose that you are right, but it's a very frustrating situation to deal with.

Understandably so.

he wouldn't do that to another woman, he'd get his face slapped right quick. I would suggest telling this clown in no uncertain terms that his is unacceptable behavior, and if he does it again you are going to slap him or worse (a knee to the groin comes to mind). Don't put up with it for one second because the more you do, the more he's going to think it's okay to take liberties like that with you which are totally inappropriate ways of addressing a woman. If it were me he would definitely get an earful if he pulled something like that, dad's friend or no.

Quote from: Laura91 on September 21, 2009, 01:24:00 PM
You are exactly right on that point. I talked about this with a couple of my aunts and they said the same thing. I plan on bringing this up with my mom when I see her tomorrow. The only thing that really is preventing me from slugging him is the fact that he is my dad's friend. If it wasn't for that he would be suffering from a broken nose right now.

The problem with resorting to violence is that if he doesn't see you as female in the first place, he's not going to hesitate to hit you back. Resorting to violence just proves (in others' minds) that they were right and you're not female, because picking a fight with a man isn't something most women would do.

The idea that cisgen women really do things like slap a man in the face is Hollywood fiction. I know many women who use colorful language, I don't know any woman who has ever actually struck a man, as a slap in the face or anything else. Not and had it end well anyway. Not a good idea. Especially when you consider that if you strike first, you can claim "but I'm a woman and he disrespected me" all you want and the police are still going to cuff you and haul you off to jail.

Quote from: Laura91 on September 21, 2009, 02:14:22 PM
Well, you do have a point there. If I didn't throw the first punch I would be in the right. I guess that I could just shove him instead. If he did hit me after that my dad would back me up, not so much because of the gender issue but simply because I am his offspring. I know quite a few women that would have  no problem defending themselves against a guy, so the idea of a woman striking a man isn't foreign to me at all. I know what you are thinking...'violence is wrong', but you can only push someone so far before they push back.

Even if you only shove him, you're still in the wrong as far as the law is concerned, in most places with updated domestic violence laws. You still started the physical aggression in the eyes of the law. As a woman I'd not hesitate to defend myself also. The problem here is that you're not defending yourself. You're making yourself the aggressor. There is a big difference between the two. He gave you the old macho male chest slap thing. Should he touch you? No. But if that's how he expresses endearment to other guys, he didn't do so to insult you or be aggressive, he did it out of cluelessness. You said he is not bright and doesn't remember things well. To me that doesn't sound like he's being aggressive, it's just not sinking in that you are female now. Picking a fight will not only get you in trouble with the law, it also does little to reinforce to him and the casual observer the idea that you are female.

Quote from: Laura91 on September 21, 2009, 02:40:40 PM
You are right (yet again)

Maybe I could find another way to approach this that doesn't involve the use of physical violence. I'm not a violent person, really. I just hate taking crap from other people.

My approach, when someone is doing something out of ignorance or cluelessness, is to come up with a creative way to make my point with words. The more obvious irony without insult the better.

My approach when someone is doing something out of malevolence, is to come up with a creative way to make my point with words, only with as much added snark as necessary to make the person look and feel like a total heel. The more irony with added insult the better.

That's my approach, YMMV.

well saying you'd slap someone for saying something untoward is a thing that girls say, whether they would do it or not, though it is far from "hollywood fiction" because trust me I've seen it happen. Still you have a right to let him know it isn't appropriate behavior.  A "macho chest slap thing" done to a woman could very well be interpreted as aggressive behavior by anyone. Don't let some ape walk all over you. Let him know it won't be tolerated from this girl.

As someone who, presenting male, was slapped across the face by a woman, I can attest that it does sometimes happen.  (It was a long time ago and was probably well deserved.  I don't remember why but definitely remember the slap.)

Friend of the father or not, unacceptable behavior is unacceptable.  Let him know it in words, many words, often repeated until it sinks into his thick skull.  In the meantime, stay out of his reach and make a point of it.

If nothing else, transitioning has taught me to stand up for myself and my sisters and brothers.  Let me at him, Laura.  Arrrgh!

- Kate

Quote from: K8 on September 21, 2009, 08:46:44 PMIf nothing else, transitioning has taught me to stand up for myself and my sisters and brothers.  Let me at him, Laura.  Arrrgh!

lol you go girl!!!

ok imo this isnt a gender issue at all this is a violation of your personal space this guy touched you w/o consent.... you are not a close friend of his so his behavior isnt friendly in the least bit would you slap anouther guy on the back you didnt know of course not and i have never been slapped in the chest that would piss me off so not normal behavior here either so heres my take on what happened this guy was informed by your dad of your transitioning he took an opportunity to in advertantly check out your breast by veining guy behavior that at best is inapropriate and in the eyes of the law all things being equil if you had been fully transitioned would have constituted sexual assault w/o penetration a felony if this occurs again i would sugest explaining it to him what ever you do do not assault him back DV and this is DV is regarded as very serious now. I work in law enforcement so thats my take on this
jessie