Hello to everyone! I'm new.

I read through this forum and I registered, because I need to ask the question - do you know of adrogeny in women? Is there such a thing? Is it possible?

As you are probably guessing already, biologically I'm a girl, but I don't always feel as one. And it isn't a question of sexuality - I am attracted to men, and most of the time I am comfortable in my female body, however I have two sides - one that loves my female body, keeps me dressing as a girl and ticking off "female" in questionnaires, and the other one, which is so convinced that I am a guy inside. Now, I don't think my gender is wrong or that I'd want a different body - I just think that I don't really have a gender, or a am incline towards the masculine side... I'm confused.

I have never heard of adrogenious women and I looked a lot, but nothing comes up when I search. I wanted to understand, do I have a problem in my gender identity, is it just my personality, or what is it that makes me act like a guy, even though I am not a lesbian and don't want to be?

I am worried, because I've always wanted to dress like the boys, even as child. I still play games with lots of violence and gore, engage in all sorts of physical challenges with my male friend (it's annoying because since puberty hit I have never won again), and I basically have much more fun doing "guy" things. 

However, I've noticed that now that I'm 21, a grown up woman, with my make-up, hair perfect, short skirts and cute tops and the little handbag to match my whatever... when I feel the urge to  kick a ball that is rolling around even my friends stare at me as if something is really wrong with me. Then I ask them what's wrong, and nothing is ever wrong, but still...

So, that's it - is adrogeny possible in women? Please answer me...

Of course it is. Mainly tomboys come to mind for me, but what does gender even mean anyway?
Just be yourself.

I think most of us just identify in our own non-brinary way regardless of our birth sex. It does not seem to have as much significance as it does for transexuals. Most probably don't consider themselves women at all.

There are a number on this site.

I don't think you have a problem, you sound perfectly normal to me. You just have more to learn about yourself and your gender, or lack of gender. It won't have anything to do with who you are attracted to sexually.

People stare when you break gender norms or act gender queer in the eyes of society. The more comfortable in yourself you become the less it will bother you and the less you notice.

Nice to meet you.

Hi Viyola and everyone else on this forum, this is my first post.

Two high profile personalities that come to mind (that it has been suggested may be androgynous) are; Annie Lennox and Grace Jones.

I know more androgynous women than I do androgynous guys.  I just find the girls aren't vocal about it.

Hey, thank you so much for the immediate acceptance! I feel so much better already, I truly do!

Kyle and Nicky, I see what you mean about being true to myself and acting the way it comes to me, however many people are terribly judgmental and I don't really handle negative attention too well. I guess I'll have to work on my nerve, because I do believe that at the end of the day, the only opinion that matters when it comes to oneself is one's own.

It also helps to see that there are some female public figures that act adrogenious as well, thank you Page. I never made much of Grace Jones' appearance or attitude, but now that you pointed her out, I kind of get it.
But you know what really bothers me, I hate it that women, in general, are meek and won't voice anything. But, mind if I ask that, Jester, how do you know if a women is adrogenious, if she was never vocal about it? I kind of wish to spot somebody who I could relate to in my immediate surroundings.

I think the meekness of your women will largely be cultural. The women in my country seem to be as out spoken as any man - you should talk to my wife  .

It is hard being breaking free of the the norms of your society. Do it if it feels right for you. As you said, work on your nerve. Take baby steps, it does get easier. I find that in being myself I make it more permissive for those around me to explore breaking the mold too.

I don't think you can tell just by looking at someone what their internal identity is. But you can see people that look androgynous.

You could investigate whether there are any trans groups in your area. They are usually fairly binary and might not understand your position but it is worth a shot. You might also feel at home with a bunch of lesbians, drag kings, and drag queens - at least they will allow you to express yourself. Scope out some local gay clubs. Just some ideas.



Hi Page, I would love to hear your story. If you like you can post an introduction in the introductions forum (you too Viyola).

Quote from: Nicky on September 28, 2009, 02:22:07 PM
I think the meekness of your women will largely be cultural.

Yes, I think you just hit the problem right there! Maybe it is all cultural. I am in Italy, by the way and here women are put under too much pressure, if you ask me.

I was always under the impression that italian women were pretty strong and forward. Sounds like I am wrong. Just remember that even though the man is the head, the woman is the neck and can turn that head any way she wants  .

I think it's probably pretty evenly balanced between physical females and physical males being androgynous - and why shouldn't it be?
I may be prejudiced, but I feel that androgyny is the natural state of affairs, certainly spiritually.
Dara

Quote from: Dara on October 01, 2009, 08:13:40 AM
I think it's probably pretty evenly balanced between physical females and physical males being androgynous - and why shouldn't it be?

Dunno. I think the mechanisms that cause female bods to be transgendered may be slightly different to those that cause male bods to be transgendered. Especially if you start with the assumption that all babies in the womb start out pretty much female. The thing that masculanises/androgynises a 'female' brain is probably different to the thing that reduces the amount of masculanisation a 'male' brain undergoes. (plenty of assumptions here I know, but I think the theory is ok) There is no reason to believe they would occur in equal proportions.  Also I think social stuff may play a big part. Women seem to have a much greater range of allowed expression (in western society anyway) 'female gender identity' probably includes more people than 'male gender identity' does i.e. you get less gender queer women.

Any other thoughts on this?

there seem to be fairly similar numbers of non binary people from both biological Male & Females but the bio Females seem more likely to use the term genderQueer and the male bodies use androgyne. mind you many TransMen and Lesbians also relate to the term genderQueer.

This is just my personal feeling and mine only. When it come's to the female sex it's alot harder to tell witch one's a fem and witch one's are not. I say this for a few reason's 1. female's can get away with wearing basiclly anything they want and no one will even really blink. Put the shoe or skirt on the other sex and it all change's. As soon as a man does something the society would consider fem. they start questioning what his sexual idnety is. 2. It's just more acceptable for the female sex to enter the male sex's world, cause the world see's that as a strength and not a weakness like the world see's feminety. For you I would just offer this advice for you "You can not control what other people think and say about you. The only thing you can control is your self!"

I think thescrappycoco has it right: Society (American society, at least) lets women step into the male role more easily than it lets men step into the female role.

Androgyny comes naturally to me. I'm a genetic female but have always been called "sir" by store clerks and the like. Except for the fact that people don't like not being able to identify your gender, I haven't had any outright trouble.

-- Luke