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Also need advise about FFS! pictures included

Started by Myself, April 27, 2009, 11:56:33 AM

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Meshi

I just had FFS done May 6th and 7th with Dr. O.  Normal FFS usually for sure is browbrushing (bringing down the bone by the brow line).  It is a very sign that a TG is male if it isnt done, then chin shortening and the space between the upper lip and nose should be reduced.  It isnt "uplifting" the lip, but reducing the space between them and it tends to somewhat make the upper lip look fuller.  Also scalp reduction with a forehead lift.  Then jawline feminization and trachial shave (Adam's Apple).  Some ppl also get lower eyelids done to tighten that area, but i dont think you need it. Dr O will also suggest a full facelift after around the 4-6 month period as the skin will sometimes will become loose do to the bone loss.  I have a titanium plate in my chin from the chin work.  Dr. O is not cheap, but he is the predominant FFS surgeon in the US and the best.  If you want him, i would book him asap, as i hear he will retire in maybe a yr or so.  If you do go tell him you want the maximum in the lip space.  My avatar is b4 FFS.  I am going back to shorten the lip space again and chin/lower jawline.  Also reducing more of the scalp line.  He wont charge again for the lip and the chin, jawline, but i will be paying alittle for the reduction of the scalp.  It is very expensive, but  if your objective is to look passable then it is an important  surgery to have done.  Ive already spent 53k on my face.  All together, with FFS, GRS, and Implants.  I will be nearing 87-90K.  This is not counting the 24K ive spent in the last yr for hair removal.  It all depends on how far you want to go.  I am of half european decent, so my hair was dark and dense, especially on the facial area.   
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Myself

Sorry for reviving this old thread but..

I have my real life consultation with a surgeon in 4 weeks! :)

I am pretty excited, and a bit scared, even though I am not going under any knives yet.

I am trying to decide what I want, so I have something to point out as well as listen to his suggestions.

I been thinking forehead 100%, nose 100% (I heard you have to do nose after forehead anyways, and it gotten a bit wide from estrogens O_o)

Chin.. I want but I don't feel is a must, so 50% (maybe a bit higher) and few recommended jaw, but I am really not sure about the jaw.
It's probably the part I need most help deciding on.

I also wanted to know if there is a way to shorten the lip-nose distance without actually affecting he lips structure, probably like gummy smile surgery (I do have a bit of gummy smile at times but not major).

That's it I think!

I think if I want to do the minimum of the minimum forehead and nose might be enough, but I am not sure if I need chin too.
I think the jaw is fine but probably need second opinions.. and the rest I want to hear his opinions.

It's hard how to imagine it, I sent pictures to virtualffs.co.uk, but it will take a while until she will start to work on them.. can't wait!
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jesse

hi hun ok ive been a male (unfortunately) for a long time this is what i see in your avitar you are very close to female apperence kind of got the androgenous thing going on. in your other picks i noticed when you appered more male looking your clothing was also more male appearing i e red shirt white t shirt underneath... if i was u id opt for the ffs simply because after it you would be a hot looking girl. your brow ridge is not that noticable yet but getting it done would definately improve your appearence as would a nose job though i think that would be cosmetic only not sure how you would feel about that . also remember do to your age hrt will have a greater effect on you the longer your on it in this case you have time on your side.
hugs and if i wasnt transgender and 20 years older then you id hit on your avitar lol
jessica
like a knife that cuts you the wound heals but them scars those scars remain
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heatherrose



Advice about FFS? Some girls need it, some do not. Those that do,
do so only because of their own insecurities. I know girls with near neanderthal
facial features, who are secure enough in themselves to tell the world to go play
by itself. In my opinion, you do not need FFS. Looking at your avitar I see nothing
but a very "girl next door" pretty woman, with no make up. I notice the main
difference between your avitar compared to all the pictures you have posted,
is you are obviously happy and secure in the moment, with that big beautiful smile.
You have posted several times about how insecure you are about presenting as
a woman in public and no doubt that is you biggest stumbling block in "passing",
not your face. Nothing attracts attention like someone acting nervous and looking
guilty. If you feel you are a woman, OWN IT! BELIEVE IT and others will also.
Before you spend your money on non-reversible surgery, build up your confidence
in your conviction that you are a woman. If you can not do this for yourself,
no amount of hormones or FFS or GRS or......is going to do it for you. You
are very pretty, believe it and rest of the world can and will see it too.



"I have always wanted to have a neighbor just like you,
I've always wanted to live in a neighborhood with you.

So let's make the most of this beautiful day,
Since we're together, we might as well say,
Would you be mine?
Could you be mine?
Won't you be my neighbor?" - Fred Rogers
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sarahb

From what I see, you'll do well with chin, forehead (which usually includes brows as well), nose, and maybe a scalp advancement. Other than that I think you'd be good to go. I wouldn't touch the lip, since you already have very pouty lips. It doesn't look like you need a trachea shave from the profile pic, but it could just be that pic throwing it off.

If you need a point of reference, the procedures I pointed out were all the ones I had (except the scalp advancement). Chin, forehead+brows, nose, trachea. Since you have a more prominently female look to you than I did starting out, you'll turn out great. You can check out my follow-up post at https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,65234.0.html too see my before and after pics for reference on what can be done.

By the way, I agree with people who say that attitude does a lot to help increase your ability to pass. But I'm getting sick of people saying that FFS is only for those who are too insecure about themselves. Yes, insecurity about other people plays a lot into why people opt for FFS, but it's also so that when you look in the mirror you see yourself, and not someone else looking back at you. For those people who say FFS is only for the insecure, why then should any TSs take HRT? Or do anything in the way of body modification to match their true gender? If it's all for vanity, and what really matters is your self-confidence of knowing that you're really a girl, then why not just keep the body you have and tell people you're a girl without resorting to HRT, FFS, SRS, etc?

I know people like to be nice to others, but in my opinion, being nice is being honest with them when they ask for help. Not appeasing them with false compliments. I wouldn't trade the comfort I now have with myself and seeing me in the mirror for anything. Those are just my words of advice, take what you will from it.

~Sarah
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Myself

Sarah, I totally agree!
It's not about insecurity, I see people saying they are girls or guys and look completely not and they just get hurt or are too.. something and not get hurt somehow.

Even though I get nice comments from picture, I look in the mirror and the face looks like a boy/guy to me.
And to some people outside too, even when wearing unisex cloths.

Sometimes it might seem more people think that way, the other day it might be different..
And that's without me doing anything in particular, being just like anyone else, it's not all about how you carry yourself like people say.

The face is a big tell no matter what, maybe people sometimes act to someone as what they present themselves as but might still feel weird.

I hate it that people confuse me for a young boy and I am annoyed at it that people say I am just insecure or behaving wrong, I am not "nervous" or anything, more like apathy than anything else.

So sometimes people think I am this, sometimes that.. that's annoying and it's not in my mind.

Edit: I forgot to say the first thing I planned in this reply! :O
I remember seeing your topic previously, you look great ^^
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heatherrose




Mine were not false compliments. I recall a few months before I started
my transition, breaking down in tears because my reflection told me I would
never be anything but a guy in a dress. Here I sit four years later "passing"
and confident in my appearance. I would not be above having some "work"
done if the finances were available after SRS, purely to sooth my vanity.
Building your confidence doesn't only help you to pass, it helps you realize
you only need one person's approval and that is your own. Be careful not to
fall into the trap that has been set for our GG sisters which has caused many to
harm themselves in the an attempt to achieve societies ideal of feminine beauty.



"I have always wanted to have a neighbor just like you,
I've always wanted to live in a neighborhood with you.

So let's make the most of this beautiful day,
Since we're together, we might as well say,
Would you be mine?
Could you be mine?
Won't you be my neighbor?" - Fred Rogers
  •  

sarahb

Quote from: heatherrose on October 02, 2009, 02:14:33 PMBe careful not to fall into the trap that has been set for our GG sisters which has caused many to harm themselves in the an attempt to achieve societies ideal of feminine beauty.

For me, it's not about trying to attain a level of beauty. I do not consider myself beautiful by any means, but am I more happy because of FFS, of course! It's about trying to attain a level of comfort in one's own body. When I went into FFS, I wasn't doing it to become a supermodel, or to even become close to beautiful. I did it to be able to become physically female - relative to my definition of physical femininity - to match the female I am inside, so that I could more easily socialize in the society that I live in.

Quote from: heatherrose on October 02, 2009, 06:57:05 AMI know girls with near neanderthal facial features, who are secure enough in themselves to tell the world to go play by itself.

If those whom you speak of are ok with that then that's fine. Anyone can live their life how they want, and if they are happy, that's all that matters. I would rather indulge my social capacity as a human rather than cast it off though. I see no point in living a life where you cast off the society in which you live. I thrive on socialization with others. Like in the movie Into The Wild, "Happiness isn't real unless it is shared." What's the point of being happy with yourself if you have nobody to share it with?


~Sarah
  •  

heatherrose




I understand and support the whole "Doctors Without Borders" thing
where the baby receives surgery to correct a cleft lip or similar face deformity
to ease the poor things future interactions with society. I hope that you are not
suggesting that someone blessed with a less than socially acceptable appearance
is not worthy of social interaction. A world basing it's determination, of whether
or not someone is worthy of social interaction, on the individual's looks,
would be very sad one to live in........too late, I suppose.



"I have always wanted to have a neighbor just like you,
I've always wanted to live in a neighborhood with you.

So let's make the most of this beautiful day,
Since we're together, we might as well say,
Would you be mine?
Could you be mine?
Won't you be my neighbor?" - Fred Rogers
  •  

sarahb

Quote from: heatherrose on October 02, 2009, 03:45:57 PMI hope that you are not suggesting that someone blessed with a less than socially acceptable appearance is not worthy of social interaction.

Nope, just living in the reality that for the time being that's how it is, not everywhere and not with everyone, but it's widespread enough to notice. That's not to say that I don't do what I can to change that stigma, but I'm not going to forfeit a happy life to live outside of that.

Life is short, and I don't want to waste any more of mine having to justify to society why I should be accepted. Just like I wouldn't expect that baby to want to go through it's entire life hoping the daily interactions don't focus on just that.

Again, anyone can live how they want to live, and if they're happy living with a cleft lip, or with a male looking face while trying to be the female they are, then more power to them. I'm not going to judge them or tell them they should change, but I'm also not going to let others judge me for wanting to make my life that much simpler and happier for myself.

~Sarah
  •  

heatherrose

"I have always wanted to have a neighbor just like you,
I've always wanted to live in a neighborhood with you.

So let's make the most of this beautiful day,
Since we're together, we might as well say,
Would you be mine?
Could you be mine?
Won't you be my neighbor?" - Fred Rogers
  •  

Myself

Why everywhere I post arguments come to live?

I agree with most of what Sarah said, we shouldn't enforce ourselves on other, like someone else said in a post, it's hard to change people's thinking of "if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck", people get hurt from it and I doubt it's wise to say "They are wrong" just because someone decided to place a fact which is defying all of what is normal.

And even if people "accept" you, that's WORSE! you want to be YOU, for them you'll, even if unconsciously, maybe be "this, no this.. that's right", or even worse, you might be "that who acts and wants to be .."

If you have the look, no one needs to accept you, you are just you.
No second thoughts, no embarrassment, on top of all, you look in the mirror and see reality, if you have the wrong face, I am not sure what kind of a person you might be if you don't cry at your reflection.
But in my opinion, you don't need society to tell you the truth, most people can just look in the mirror and see it, if not, they either got there or set themselves a bubble.

It's not JUST about looking beautiful, it's about look FEMALE instead if MALE.

It's a WHOLE different meter, the beauty and the sex and people tend to confuse it too often.



Now, most people won't act like that, rather just come and ask for the bathrooms or something,
But directed to the wrong one, even that simple scenario (not from the youtube which is all humor. but the simplified one) is a reflection, it's reality telling you "you might be happy, maybe not, but you and reality definitely have some fixing to do.
It can hurt, because you are not seen as who you are, even if you WEREN'T expecting to be seen, it can hurt for many reasons.
And if you correct then "sorry, the men's room? I'm not a man" (the most gentle way I could think of), let's just say usually the guy directing you would probably think you reply is weird, maybe try to look twice, maybe ignore his feeling and correct himself anyway and keep being "???" maybe be rude.
  •  

heatherrose




Argument? I wasn't angry. It is difficult for me to understand why you insist
that your problems with passing are because you have a supermasculine face
and I have an even harder time understanding how some can agree that the
only way for you to calm your fears over what you feel is your less than
aesthetically pleasing state is to pay someone to cut into and rearrange your
face. It appears some people, post requesting opinions and advice but if
anyone posts an answer which is not in line with the OP's position, it is seen
as inciting an argument. Sweety, do whatever you feel you need to do.



"I have always wanted to have a neighbor just like you,
I've always wanted to live in a neighborhood with you.

So let's make the most of this beautiful day,
Since we're together, we might as well say,
Would you be mine?
Could you be mine?
Won't you be my neighbor?" - Fred Rogers
  •  

Myself

  •  

heatherrose



Quote from: Myself on October 03, 2009, 03:29:09 PMYou completely misunderstood me :X


No, I understood but you disagree with me.
That makes some think I am a compassionate liar
and an argumentative instigator.



"I have always wanted to have a neighbor just like you,
I've always wanted to live in a neighborhood with you.

So let's make the most of this beautiful day,
Since we're together, we might as well say,
Would you be mine?
Could you be mine?
Won't you be my neighbor?" - Fred Rogers
  •  

Butterfly

Quote from: Myself on October 02, 2009, 05:36:59 AM
Sorry for reviving this old thread but..

I have my real life consultation with a surgeon in 4 weeks! :)

I am pretty excited, and a bit scared, even though I am not going under any knives yet.

I am trying to decide what I want, so I have something to point out as well as listen to his suggestions.

I been thinking forehead 100%, nose 100% (I heard you have to do nose after forehead anyways, and it gotten a bit wide from estrogens O_o)

Chin.. I want but I don't feel is a must, so 50% (maybe a bit higher) and few recommended jaw, but I am really not sure about the jaw.
It's probably the part I need most help deciding on.

I also wanted to know if there is a way to shorten the lip-nose distance without actually affecting he lips structure, probably like gummy smile surgery (I do have a bit of gummy smile at times but not major).

That's it I think!

I think if I want to do the minimum of the minimum forehead and nose might be enough, but I am not sure if I need chin too.
I think the jaw is fine but probably need second opinions.. and the rest I want to hear his opinions.

It's hard how to imagine it, I sent pictures to virtualffs.co.uk, but it will take a while until she will start to work on them.. can't wait!

That's marvelous.  Good luck & let us know how it goes.



Quote from: heatherrose on October 03, 2009, 11:18:26 PM

No, I understood but you disagree with me.
That makes some think I am a compassionate liar
and an argumentative instigator.

With all due respect, I think you've already  expressed your opinions & gotten answers for them.  Could we now please move on?
  •  

heatherrose

"I have always wanted to have a neighbor just like you,
I've always wanted to live in a neighborhood with you.

So let's make the most of this beautiful day,
Since we're together, we might as well say,
Would you be mine?
Could you be mine?
Won't you be my neighbor?" - Fred Rogers
  •  

Tyler

I love your Avatar pic! I honestly thought you were female when I first saw it!  :)
  •  

Myself

Quote from: Tyler on October 04, 2009, 05:15:39 AM
I love your Avatar pic! I honestly thought you were female when I first saw it!  :)

Thank you!!!! :)

I will post updates when I have I think :)

I think I rather have this thread closed.. I seem to have an amazing skill of sparking arguments and tension without meaning to, sorry :)

Thanks for all the helpful comments everyone! I think I will just wait for the virtualffs and doctor for deciding about a jaw procedure or not.

If someone  wants to comment, I'd love to get opinions on that only to prevent any further mayhem..

So far I had some people tell me the jaw is extremely feminine, few said it's "ok/good", a very few said it might be a bit masculine.

So overall I think it's fine (personally I feel quite confident I don't need that, I just want second opinions)
  •  

lpfix2009

I second that

Quote from: Zelane on April 27, 2009, 10:30:06 PM
Hmm, ok

Female cues:
Your lips... thats a nice asset you have they are like wow
Nice hair, I think you look better in the first picture. That and the one where you are smiling I feel are the ones where you look like a girl

Male cues:
Brow bossing, its quite prominent
Eyebrows, they are below the brow
Eyes small (again because of the brow)
Chin, its tall and kinda squarish
Scalp, its high
Some facial hair


I feel a t least 2 years in HRT? and then you can have a better idea of what you might need.
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