Quote from: Kieri on October 24, 2009, 01:41:01 PM
I think hormones have some sort of effect on your reactions or ability to pick up biological signals from the opposite sex at the very least, even if they don't change your orientation.  As a guy, many women have told me I smell really good after I hug them - and I don't wear any cologne or anything, and sometimes was even sweaty at the time.  Not a single guy ever has though. 

Generally speaking, guys don't consciously pick up on body scent as a screening device for lovers. I believe that this is one reason men in general and gay men in particular are able to be so sexually prolific. Women are hard-wired to pick up on pheromones, and some women use it to decide, once and for all, whether they are going to pursue a relationship or go to bed with a guy. In the United States, however, we tend to cover body scent. In a way, that's too bad.

What happens with trans people? I don't know. That's a whole other ball game. I've always used body scent to determine who was compatible and who wasn't. Testosterone has not altered my sense of smell, although I was kind of hoping it would so that (as a gay man) I would not be hamstrung by it and be unable to form attachments with men who are otherwise compatible with me except for their body scent.

My own experience is anecdotal but suggests that certain areas in the FTM brain are fully consistent with normal female brains. My life so far suggests that part of my brain is still organically female in at least one specific way. Max Valerio's experience with changes to his sense of smell suggests that his experience was chemical rather than organic. So I dunno.

Sorry to hijack. With regard to sexual preference, it took me years and years to realized that just because I thought a woman was physically attractive, that did not necessarily mean that I found her sexually attractive.

I tried hard to be bi for many years but became less and less adamant about it as the evidence against it continued to mount. When I was in college, I felt gay--so I decided I must be attracted to women as well as to men. I think I intellectualized my sexual orientation and made myself out to be bi. I also think that I wanted to be queer SO badly but wanted to deny my transness. For example, as a teacher, I used to avoid using pronouns when I talked about my significant other. I so desperately wanted my students not to assume that I was straight. I was so desperate to be seen as queer that I didn't even mind if they thought I was lesbian or bi.

I guess I was pretty effed up inside. Now I've finally admitted to myself that I have no interest at all in women. I'm pretty much a Kinsey 6. And I'm quite sure that my shift is psychological and not hormonal. The hormones had no direct effect on my sexual attractions. T only allowed me to be seen as I really am. And that freed me up to admit my true orientation.

From what I have read HRT also changes pheromones. So if you are MTF and start HRT your brain would likely end up responding to male pheromones differently which could make you more attracted to men.

Have to elaborate.
Sexually I was more satisfied with men than women but was never relly attracted to men. Now after a year of HRT Im starting to find myself attracted towards men and thinking it is quite possible to have a romantic relationship with a man which I never would have entertained a year ago

Quote from: Dana Lane on October 24, 2009, 08:33:58 PM
From what I have read HRT also changes pheromones. So if you are MTF and start HRT your brain would likely end up responding to male pheromones differently which could make you more attracted to men.

I don't get it. How would a change in an MTF's pheromones make someone else's pheromones more attractive to her?

Some of you may want to read this.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/hsn/20091007/hl_hsn/birthcontrolpillsmightaltermateselectionstudy
Hormones may cause some changes in attraction.

"Women who are ovulating tend to be attracted to so-called "manly men," those with more masculine facial features and traits of dominance and competitiveness, according to background information in the study. They also tend to prefer the man who is not like them, genetically speaking.

And men, given a choice, will gravitate towards an ovulating female rather than a non-ovulating female.

But women on the pill are more consistently in a state that mimics pregnancy, the authors stated."

Quote from: Arch on October 25, 2009, 12:41:30 AM
I don't get it. How would a change in an MTF's pheromones make someone else's pheromones more attractive to her?

Pheromones change with HRT. So a MTF would end up with female pheromones and she would receive male pheromones differently. Her brain would process them like a female. It seems that I can sense male pheromones now. And actually smell them. It smells to me kind of like that sweaty man smell but more pungent.

Have to "agree" with all above, it is what it is "before" and "after" BUT exposure and experience is still a good teacher too . . .

and some (many?), like everybody else, just plain NEVER do get over basic, inbred hangups & natural inhibitions! lol While I prefer NOT one can easily start a WAR on this topic by marking/reporting it as "inflammatory"; in my book lately I'm beginning to think that some (many?) MtF's are in fact what I've coined MtO (Male-to-Other & General Identity Disordered) because in terms of the strict standard of mainstream gender binaries "turned lesbian" in fact tends to invalidate the first assumption of indeed being "MtF" to begin with . . . 

The point? As a genetic born male who by definition is nominally "bi" based on a thoroughly male socialized upbringing "now" shouldn't be any different because, as an acknowledged TS who has otherwise always identified as female, I will always consider myself very much mainstream "hetero" none-the-less in the sense that on a physical level I've always prefered males over women . . .

Bottom line? Who really cares it's the nature of the "beast" because indeed we are all still very much entitled to our unquie differences!

Quote from: Kiera on October 25, 2009, 07:31:10 AM
Bottom line? Who really cares it's the nature of the "beast" because indeed we are all still very much entitled to our unquie differences!

Actually, I cared a great deal. Although pre-transition I tried to pretend that I was bi--yes, I somehow fooled myself into believing it for years--I have serious trust issues with women. Despite my efforts not to be, I've been pretty misogynistic for my entire adult life. These feelings intensified beyond belief after I came out of the closet because I had succeeded in burying them instead of dealing with them.

The thought that HRT might shift my orientation--possibly even alter it completely--was therefore a huge problem for me. I seriously considered not transitioning for a number of reasons, but that was one of the big issues.

I get the impression that quite a few trans people feel hostile toward or alienated from people of their "birth sex," so maybe I'm not the only one who struggles with this.

And, like it or not, some trans people adamantly want to be hetero after transition. I can't say I'm okay with that point of view myself, but it's their feeling on the matter, and they're the ones who have to live their lives after transition.

Quote from: Arch on October 25, 2009, 01:16:11 PM

And, like it or not, some trans people adamantly want to be hetero after transition. I can't say I'm okay with that point of view myself, but it's their feeling on the matter, and they're the ones who have to live their lives after transition.

I just recently started my own journey after finally realizing why I didn't feel comfortable in the bedroom with women. Even though I was 'straight' my entire life. I blocked out any feelings I had for men. But I am now opening myself up to things and realize I will probably only date men after I transition.

My therapist asked me to rate my sexual attraction from 1 to 10 for women and then for men. I rated women at 6 and men at 10. And the reason I did that is because all my life I could look at women and while I could get sexually attracted I never got that 'take my breath away omg feeling'. I do get that from some men, however. So, I will probably be straight if/when I transition. I am currently celibate.

Well, I don't know.  I would have said sexual orientation and gender identity are completely unrelated.  And then I began transition.

I always wanted to be a gay man.  I would look longingly at gay men and wonder why I wasn't attracted to any of them.  I would look at a woman and something in the pit of my stomach would involuntarily react.  (Often something a bit lower would automatically react, too, but that's not what I'm talking about.)  I've repressed a lot of things in my life, but I don't think I repressed my attraction to men – I just didn't have any.

Now I find women attractive but am not attracted to them in any way.  I've seen a few men whose bodies I would like to get to know a little better.  (Actually, a lot better. )  I even had a school-girl crush on a guy.  (Now that was a surprise!  And I had it bad. )

I know it's weird and doesn't usually happen, but I've adjusted to the fact that I am weird and probably always will be.  I think the hormones must just fire different parts of the brain or something.  Maybe I was always attracted to men but never met Mr. Right.  But then why did I meet bunches of Miss Rights and now they don't seem to exist?

Who knows. 

I certainly didn't expect to stay hetero.  The only explanation that might make any sense is that I was so disgusted with having to be male that I became disgusted with all men.  (But then why did I have so many gay friends?)  I guess we just never know and have to take life as it comes.

- Kate

When I was going thru transition I was pretty much confused, but as my transition moved along guys started to show an interest in me, flirted with me, giving  me attention, I loved it, it was more of them seeing and excepting me as a woman, my first BF used to give me flowers, if I was still a guy I couldnd see myself attracted to guys, but Im a woman and Im definitely 100% attracted to guys, I just love that male attention, its definitely the hormones, as for flowers, now flowers definitely work on a girl, when a guy gives me flowers, its got better over the years, hormones has a beautiful magic, thats my experience.
p

My sexual attraction has always been the same, pre and post op. Whilst I have numerous female friends, they are platonic only, there has never been any attraction of a sexual nature to other women.   I am attracted to men only.

So IMO HRT does not change sexual orientation or attraction.

even before starting my transition i liked men but now i like a lot more men! haha i think its because im happier in myself though

I like boys and girls. Always have always will. I will admit that I have a preferance but that changes with the mood of the day.
Right now I wouldnt mind a man.

Quote from: Arch on October 24, 2009, 02:29:40 PM
I tried hard to be bi for many years but became less and less adamant about it as the evidence against it continued to mount. When I was in college, I felt gay--so I decided I must be attracted to women as well as to men. I think I intellectualized my sexual orientation and made myself out to be bi. I also think that I wanted to be queer SO badly but wanted to deny my transness. For example, as a teacher, I used to avoid using pronouns when I talked about my significant other. I so desperately wanted my students not to assume that I was straight. I was so desperate to be seen as queer that I didn't even mind if they thought I was lesbian or bi.

I guess I was pretty effed up inside. Now I've finally admitted to myself that I have no interest at all in women. I'm pretty much a Kinsey 6. And I'm quite sure that my shift is psychological and not hormonal. The hormones had no direct effect on my sexual attractions. T only allowed me to be seen as I really am. And that freed me up to admit my true orientation.

Wow! I really, truly thought I was the only one who did this (claim to be bi in order to have a queer identity while denying being trans). Yeah, it didn't work for me either. Women look nice, but do nothing for me.

Quote from: kyril on March 02, 2010, 12:01:23 PM
Wow! I really, truly thought I was the only one who did this (claim to be bi in order to have a queer identity while denying being trans). Yeah, it didn't work for me either. Women look nice, but do nothing for me.

Boy, am I glad I'm not the only one. I thought it was so freaky.

As an undergrad, I took a queer theory course. Virtually everyone in that class was either a gay man or a lesbian. Virtually everyone in that class assumed that I was a lesbian. I wanted so much to belong that I never, never talked about my partner. I went to special events--film screenings and lectures and the like--that tended to appeal to lesbians, although everyone in the class was encouraged to attend. At these events, I saw all of these young women who were pretty comfortable not only with their sexuality but with their gender. I hated my masquerade and felt like (and was) a terrible fraud, but THEY saw me as one of them. In a way, it was refreshing. But painful, because I knew I wasn't one of them.

I felt like the biggest freak on the planet. Now at least I can be an out gay man, even if I haven't slept with anyone since my ex and I broke up.

Quote from: Jamie-o on October 24, 2009, 01:39:52 AM
Some people's do.  Whether it's a matter of becoming ready to follow that path, (As is, I'm sure, often the case) or whether it's a chemical thing is really still open to debate.  To say "No, your orientation cannot change.  You were always that way and just couldn't accept it," is virtually the same as saying, "There's no such thing as a bi-sexual.  They're all just gays who can't accept it."  It may sometimes be true, but to say it's always true is rather presumptuous, IMO.

Yeah I agree with this completely.  I don't think you can really just say no as a definite answer.  People seem to forget that their personal experience can't be applied to every other person who's transitioned.  Also regarding the statement that sexual orientation is hardwired into the brain and can't be changed, I don't think that's been proven yet.

Personally however, my sexuality didn't change, although I did start noticing physical aspects of women way more than ever before.

Quote from: loveluv on March 02, 2010, 09:33:55 AM
even before starting my transition i liked men but now i like a lot more men! haha i think its because im happier in myself though

I seem to have had the complete oposite lol i've started to find other women a lot more attractive.  i have'nt had the same thing with men though.  I think It might have the same cause as loveluv as I think it has a lot to do with being muchhappier with my body.

I still love women, mostly. Its maybe a 95/5 = women/men