Quote from: Muddy on October 24, 2009, 06:39:10 PM
As long as GID is in the DSM, transsexuals will be barred from military service.

Even if Don't Ask, Don't Tell is repealed, transsexuals will still be seen as suffering from a Personality Disorder that is incompatible with military service.

That's mine.

So what? Why would you ever wanna fight for greedy, cigar-smoking suits anyway in wars that go nowhere and will never, ever end?

Quote from: Valerie Elizabeth on October 25, 2009, 12:29:53 AM
Can I ask then why so many people on this board recommend people to a psychiatrist?

If everybody feels so strongly about it being removed, then why go to psychiatrists?  Doing so only furthers the idea that it is a mental illness.

Thoughts?

Perhaps because the social and personal implications of the disorder are extremely stressful and often result in legitimate mental illness such as depression.

I would be interested to know how many of the people here are going to a psychiatrist with an aim to actually curing their gender identity incongruity by making the mind congruent with the body rather than vice verse. I doubt it's very many if any of the people here.

Furthermore, its listing in the DSM and the standards of care often give people little option.

I for one have been told so far by every doctor I've seen that they will not, under any circumstances prescribe HRT until a psychiatrist has given it the OK. I personally am at a point where if the next two doctors I see are no different, I simply have to go to a psychiatrist for an indefinite period of time until they give the go ahead, and KEEP going indefinitely after, or prescribed HRT is simply not going to happen.

It's a catch-22, I have to go to a psychiatrist and perpetuate the idea that it's a mental disorder, because of the perception that it's a mental disorder.

I personally after having seen two psychiatrist wouldn't recommend anyone to go to a psychiatrist FOR GID if they can avoid it, unless they genuinely feel it would benefit them.

Perhaps a psychologist would be a better choice.

But given my experiences with them, I don't feel I have a mental disorder, I feel going to a therapist that thinks me mentally ill for my condition to the point where they simply dismiss anything I have to say is unhelpful and is only of harm to my mental state, not help.

Don't misunderstand me, I don't think all psychiatrists are bad and that nobody could possibly benefit from seeing one. But if you have GID simply because you have GID, and not as a result of some kind of personality or other disorder, I don't think it's helpful to see one for THAT condition. To help with other issues in your life? To help with depression from your condition, sure, they might be very helpful.

But I don't feel that GID is a mental illness, and so I feel that the psychiatric professions ability to treat it directly is extremely limited.

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Post Merge: October 25, 2009, 12:43:42 AM

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Quote from: Kara-Xen on October 25, 2009, 12:38:37 AM
So what? Why would you ever wanna fight for greedy, cigar-smoking suits anyway in wars that go nowhere and will never, ever end?

That's not really the point. The point is you should be able too if you are physically capable.

It's like the argument that women should be barred from combat rolls, sure, most women don't want to be in the military, let alone a combat roll to start with, but a few do and if they're physically capable, they should be able too.

I'm one of those who strongly believes GID should be removed from the DSM.  And I have no problem saying why, again.

You walk into your doctor's office and tell him/her what's bothering you.  After hearing you out, GID is initially diagnosed.  Since it's considered a MENTAL DISORDER, you are then directed to have psychiatric counseling.  And your insurance will cover that.

But that's all your insurance will cover because it's mental.  And if you become depressed, they will treat you for depression.  And if you become suicidal, they will lock you up in a psych ward.

Then there's the reaction of those who find out you have GID.  They will think it's all in your head.  After all, it's listed in a book of psychiatric disorders so treatments like hormones or surgery aren't the answer.  The only answer is more therapy.  And the goal will be to cure you of your GID.  And you can bet they will give it their best.

GID can be found under "Sexual Dysfunctions".  When you have a dysfunction, something isn't working right.  We like to fix things that aren't working right.

Here's what it says:

Etiology
Theories suggest that childhood issues may play a role in this disorder, such as the parent-child relationship at an early age and the identification a child is able to make with the parents of the same gender.

Symptoms
A strong and persistent identification with the opposite gender. There is a sense of discomfort in their own gender and may feel they were 'born the wrong sex.' This has been confused with cross-dressing or Transvestic Fetishism, but all are distinct diagnoses.

Treatment
Other disorders may be present with this one, including depression, anxiety, relationship difficulties, and personality disorders, and homosexuality is present in a majority of the cases. Treatment is likely to be long-term with small gains made on underlying issues as treatment progresses.

Prognosis
Mixed. The goals of treatment are not as clear as in other disorders, as same-sex identification may be very difficult to achieve. More achievable goals may include acceptance of assigned gender and resolution of other difficulties such as depression or anxiety.

In the Etiology, it says there may be some childhood issues, in other words, it's your environment that created the disorder.  Conclusion: we need to fix that.

In Treatment, they are saying treatment may be long term.  Yep, we're gonna keep working on you until we make you like everyone else.

And finally they say there may be other underlying factors like depression and anxiety.  Well, I get anxious when I am standing on the edge of a tall building. So why not suggest I walk away from the edge of the building instead of treating the anxiety?

When gays began fighting for their civil rights people said they were mentally ill and needed to be fixed.  "I don't hate homosexuals and I just think they need to be straightened out."  Homosexuality was listed in the DSM so it was widely believed it was all in their head.

As long as GID is listed in the DSM, don't expect society to embrace early hormone intervention as a viable option.  Instead it will be waiting for puberty to do irreparable damage that will result in paying (out of pocket) tens of thousands of dollars and endure a lot of pain just so you can achieve some semblance of what early intervention could have done easily.  And I won't go into the years of mental anguish that could have been avoided.

The DSM is for mental disorders.  I know I don't now nor ever did have a mental disorder.  It wasn't all in my head, it was all over my body.

Julie

Quote from: Julie Marie on October 25, 2009, 12:54:44 AM
I'm one of those who strongly believes GID should be removed from the DSM.  And I have no problem saying why, again.

You walk into your doctor's office and tell him/her what's bothering you.  After hearing you out, GID is initially diagnosed.  Since it's considered a MENTAL DISORDER, you are then directed to have psychiatric counseling.  And your insurance will cover that.

But that's all your insurance will cover because it's mental.  And if you become depressed, they will treat you for depression.  And if you become suicidal, they will lock you up in a psych ward.

Then there's the reaction of those who find out you have GID.  They will think it's all in your head.  After all, it's listed in a book of psychiatric disorders so treatments like hormones or surgery aren't the answer.  The only answer is more therapy.  And the goal will be to cure you of your GID.  And you can bet they will give it their best.

GID can be found under "Sexual Dysfunctions".  When you have a dysfunction, something isn't working right.  We like to fix things that aren't working right.

Here's what it says:

Etiology
Theories suggest that childhood issues may play a role in this disorder, such as the parent-child relationship at an early age and the identification a child is able to make with the parents of the same gender.

Symptoms
A strong and persistent identification with the opposite gender. There is a sense of discomfort in their own gender and may feel they were 'born the wrong sex.' This has been confused with cross-dressing or Transvestic Fetishism, but all are distinct diagnoses.

Treatment
Other disorders may be present with this one, including depression, anxiety, relationship difficulties, and personality disorders, and homosexuality is present in a majority of the cases. Treatment is likely to be long-term with small gains made on underlying issues as treatment progresses.

Prognosis
Mixed. The goals of treatment are not as clear as in other disorders, as same-sex identification may be very difficult to achieve. More achievable goals may include acceptance of assigned gender and resolution of other difficulties such as depression or anxiety.

In the Etiology, it says there may be some childhood issues, in other words, it's your environment that created the disorder.  Conclusion: we need to fix that.

In Treatment, they are saying treatment may be long term.  Yep, we're gonna keep working on you until we make you like everyone else.

And finally they say there may be other underlying factors like depression and anxiety.  Well, I get anxious when I am standing on the edge of a tall building. So why not suggest I walk away from the edge of the building instead of treating the anxiety?

When gays began fighting for their civil rights people said they were mentally ill and needed to be fixed.  "I don't hate homosexuals and I just think they need to be straightened out."  Homosexuality was listed in the DSM so it was widely believed it was all in their head.

As long as GID is listed in the DSM, don't expect society to embrace early hormone intervention as a viable option.  Instead it will be waiting for puberty to do irreparable damage that will result in paying (out of pocket) tens of thousands of dollars and endure a lot of pain just so you can achieve some semblance of what early intervention could have done easily.  And I won't go into the years of mental anguish that could have been avoided.

The DSM is for mental disorders.  I know I don't now nor ever did have a mental disorder.  It wasn't all in my head, it was all over my body.

Julie

I couldn't agree with you more.

We are in almost exactly the same situation today as homosexuals were in a few decades ago, and just look at how the psychiatric field "helped" them, and in a few decades from now as more of the science is understood, I believe the same thing will happen with us, we will be removed from the DSM.

QuoteTheories suggest that childhood issues may play a role in this disorder, such as the parent-child relationship at an early age and the identification a child is able to make with the parents of the same gender.

And who came up with those theories? Not us... other psychiatrists came up with them based on their interactions with us. And what scientific proof do they have for it? None whatsoever. It's pseudo scientific guess work.

The only scientific evidence we have on the Etiology of GID suggests a physical cause. Granted it's not quite enough to say for it for sure, but what evidence there is is quite compelling.

But nobody is going to stand up on our behalf and change the system, we have to do it just like the homosexuals did.

I'm not and have never been a scientologist, but there's a reason a lot of people don't like the psychiatric field of medicine.

Quote from: asfsd4214 on October 25, 2009, 12:41:50 AM
Perhaps because the social and personal implications of the disorder are extremely stressful and often result in legitimate mental illness such as depression.

I would be interested to know how many of the people here are going to a psychiatrist with an aim to actually curing their gender identity incongruity by making the mind congruent with the body rather than vice verse. I doubt it's very many if any of the people here.

Furthermore, its listing in the DSM and the standards of care often give people little option.

I for one have been told so far by every doctor I've seen that they will not, under any circumstances prescribe HRT until a psychiatrist has given it the OK. I personally am at a point where if the next two doctors I see are no different, I simply have to go to a psychiatrist for an indefinite period of time until they give the go ahead, and KEEP going indefinitely after, or prescribed HRT is simply not going to happen.

It's a catch-22, I have to go to a psychiatrist and perpetuate the idea that it's a mental disorder, because of the perception that it's a mental disorder.

I personally after having seen two psychiatrist wouldn't recommend anyone to go to a psychiatrist FOR GID if they can avoid it, unless they genuinely feel it would benefit them.

Perhaps a psychologist would be a better choice.

But given my experiences with them, I don't feel I have a mental disorder, I feel going to a therapist that thinks me mentally ill for my condition to the point where they simply dismiss anything I have to say is unhelpful and is only of harm to my mental state, not help.

Don't misunderstand me, I don't think all psychiatrists are bad and that nobody could possibly benefit from seeing one. But if you have GID simply because you have GID, and not as a result of some kind of personality or other disorder, I don't think it's helpful to see one for THAT condition. To help with other issues in your life? To help with depression from your condition, sure, they might be very helpful.

But I don't feel that GID is a mental illness, and so I feel that the psychiatric professions ability to treat it directly is extremely limited.

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Post Merge: October 24, 2009, 11:43:42 PM

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That's not really the point. The point is you should be able too if you are physically capable.

It's like the argument that women should be barred from combat rolls, sure, most women don't want to be in the military, let alone a combat roll to start with, but a few do and if they're physically capable, they should be able too.

Fine, sure, you can include that just for the points sake... But that should be SO low on the list of the trans communities priorities that you'd have to use binoculars to find it on the mile long paper list.... How about inclusion in some schools "Diversity, multicultural" lessons that don't make us look like glorified drag queens? That'd be A. Mazing.

And to merely list hardcore GID in the DSM would be to completely ignore the likely physical causes/manifestations of where GID comes from the body to begin with... Ultimately, its also a physical problem... Ideally people would see it as so too, and it would not JUST be a DSM issue.

Quote from: Kara-Xen on October 25, 2009, 01:07:01 AM
Fine, sure, you can include that just for the points sake... But that should be SO low on the list of the trans communities priorities that you'd have to use binoculars to find it on the mile long paper list.... How about inclusion in some schools "Diversity, multicultural" lessons that don't make us look like glorified drag queens? That'd be A. Mazing.

I agree it's not a priority, but getting it out of the DSM is, and that's really the issue for both situations, so it doesn't really matter.

Perhaps its because gender therapists have a better understanding of the 'condition' and its treatment and complications than many in the medical profession. I'm rather in agreement with you Valerie. Though my concern would be more in line with if it were removed, then whom takes over the care and treatment of those who are dealing with GID? As it has been stated, there are no medical tests that can be done, no scans that can point out where GID is and that a patient definitively has it and the solution is clear cut and medically sound. Granted the mental health side isn't overly successful with it either. I mean, sure I would love to be able to have transition covered under most insurance policies (though being unemployed I have no insurance to cover anything and no money to pay for it, so I'm completely stuck). I would love to be able to walk into an MDs office and say I think I have GID and have her say, yes, here is a prescription for hormones and we will go ahead and schedule you for SRS and FFS. I do believe that I am getting good care from my therapist and learning to cope with things related to my GID and dealing with past issues that came about because of my GID. Perhaps these mental problems came about as an effect of not getting medical treatment for GID, I don't know enough about it to argue for or against it. I'm more concerned about what the proposed alternative is and how it would affect me if it were removed from DSM?

Deanna

Quote from: Deanna_Renee on October 25, 2009, 01:12:21 AM
Perhaps its because gender therapists have a better understanding of the 'condition' and its treatment and complications than many in the medical profession. I'm rather in agreement with you Valerie. Though my concern would be more in line with if it were removed, then whom takes over the care and treatment of those who are dealing with GID? As it has been stated, there are no medical tests that can be done, no scans that can point out where GID is and that a patient definitively has it and the solution is clear cut and medically sound. Granted the mental health side isn't overly successful with it either. I mean, sure I would love to be able to have transition covered under most insurance policies (though being unemployed I have no insurance to cover anything and no money to pay for it, so I'm completely stuck). I would love to be able to walk into an MDs office and say I think I have GID and have her say, yes, here is a prescription for hormones and we will go ahead and schedule you for SRS and FFS. I do believe that I am getting good care from my therapist and learning to cope with things related to my GID and dealing with past issues that came about because of my GID. Perhaps these mental problems came about as an effect of not getting medical treatment for GID, I don't know enough about it to argue for or against it. I'm more concerned about what the proposed alternative is and how it would affect me if it were removed from DSM?

Deanna

You could still see a therapist if it were removed from the DSM, again I ask, how many people are seeing a therapist in an aim of bringing their gender identity in line with their bodies anyway?

QuotePerhaps its because gender therapists have a better understanding of the 'condition' and its treatment and complications than many in the medical profession.

I disagree, their only understanding comes from talking to people like us. They don't understand what causes it or how to scientifically affirm that you have it. They're just guessing as much as anyone else is.

Quote from: asfsd4214 on October 25, 2009, 01:16:27 AM
You could still see a therapist if it were removed from the DSM, again I ask, how many people are seeing a therapist in an aim of bringing their gender identity in line with their bodies anyway?

Not unless my therapist was effing Dumbledore, and could actually do something about this... That'd be PRETTY THERAPEUTIC... Or maybe gave me LESS things to worry about involving their buearucratic chain of liability, and my actual transition, so I can relax and let it all out...
You know. I'd rather have one of those egomaniacal hypocrites run me a bath, and give me a few hits of weed... maybe light a scented candle and play a guitar for me, than complicate this complicated MYSTICAL quest to better myself... To get hormones/learn more/etc...
Everyone has their own standards of care, and I feel like I'm just dealing with people who believe in varying Dungeons and Dragons manuals, not an actually official medical text/procedure. Finding doctors/therapists who can actually HELP you is like playing russian roulette with time, and time is very hot at that game.

Quote from: asfsd4214 on October 25, 2009, 12:41:50 AM
Perhaps because the social and personal implications of the disorder are extremely stressful and often result in legitimate mental illness such as depression.

I agree with social and personal implications resulting in depression or other mental illnesses.



Depression for example is a recognized mental illness.  According to the Mayo Clinic,

"It's not known specifically what causes depression. As with many mental illnesses, it's thought that a variety of biochemical, genetic and environmental factors may cause depression:

    * Biochemical. Some evidence from high-tech imaging studies indicates that people with depression have physical changes in their brains. The significance of these changes is still uncertain but may eventually help pinpoint causes. The naturally occurring brain chemicals called neurotransmitters, which are linked to mood, also may play a role in depression. Hormonal imbalances also could be a culprit.
    * Genes. Some studies show that depression is more common in people whose biological family members also have the condition. Researchers are trying to find genes that may be involved in causing depression.
    * Environment. Environment is also thought to play a causal role in some way. Environmental causes are situations in your life that are difficult to cope with, such as the loss of a loved one, financial problems and high stress."


This is the same type of information that is around for GID.  There is evidence for genes, evidence for bio-chemical (hormones too), and I am sure that there is evidence for the environment.

Do you think that depression is not a mental illness?  How about depression removed from the DSM?

What about the idea that mental illnesses are not confined to the brain?  Depression, again is my example.  The current theories on depression aren't limited to the brain, why should any other mental illness?

I also want to bring up that GID isn't the only illness that a GP refers you to a psychiatrist.  I understand that about half of antidepressant users are prescribed them by their GP, and not a psychiatrist (can't find the numbers of people who are prescribed antidepressants while in therapy).  Do you think that a GP is qualified to prescribe antidepressants and diagnose depression?  How about follow up care for the person on them, will they get all the treatment they need, or just the meds?

What happens if GID gets removed from the DSM, and instead of getting help for GID, we just get the meds?  It works out for people who actually have GID, but what about the people who don't?  Hormones, although aren't terribly dangerous, but they do cause a lot of irreversible changes that could cause mental illnesses in people who don't have them.  Should I be able to walk into my GP's office and say, "I have GID", and get hormones and a referral letter for SRS?

Quote from: Valerie Elizabeth on October 25, 2009, 01:26:46 AM
I agree with social and personal implications resulting in depression or other mental illnesses.



Depression for example is a recognized mental illness.  According to the Mayo Clinic,

"It's not known specifically what causes depression. As with many mental illnesses, it's thought that a variety of biochemical, genetic and environmental factors may cause depression:

    * Biochemical. Some evidence from high-tech imaging studies indicates that people with depression have physical changes in their brains. The significance of these changes is still uncertain but may eventually help pinpoint causes. The naturally occurring brain chemicals called neurotransmitters, which are linked to mood, also may play a role in depression. Hormonal imbalances also could be a culprit.
    * Genes. Some studies show that depression is more common in people whose biological family members also have the condition. Researchers are trying to find genes that may be involved in causing depression.
    * Environment. Environment is also thought to play a causal role in some way. Environmental causes are situations in your life that are difficult to cope with, such as the loss of a loved one, financial problems and high stress."


This is the same type of information that is around for GID.  There is evidence for genes, evidence for bio-chemical (hormones too), and I am sure that there is evidence for the environment.

Do you think that depression is not a mental illness?  How about depression removed from the DSM?

Once again, ALL mental disorders could be classified as physical disorders in the sense that they are all physically apart of the brain structure and/or chemistry.

I don't however think something should be classed as a mental disorder unless it's actually a disorder in the functioning of the mind, which I don't believe GID is. Depression is a disorder where the mind no longer see's thing's clearly, and a shroud of hopelessness washes over everything. That is a mental illness because it is an illness of the mind.

Having a gender identity opposite your body characteristics however, is no more an illness of the mind than an illness of the body. And is no more a mental illness than homosexuality.

Quote from: Valerie Elizabeth on October 25, 2009, 01:26:46 AM
What about the idea that mental illnesses are not confined to the brain?  Depression, again is my example.  The current theories on depression aren't limited to the brain, why should any other mental illness?

I also want to bring up that GID isn't the only illness that a GP refers you to a psychiatrist.  I understand that about half of antidepressant users are prescribed them by their GP, and not a psychiatrist (can't find the numbers of people who are prescribed antidepressants while in therapy).  Do you think that a GP is qualified to prescribe antidepressants and diagnose depression?  How about follow up care for the person on them, will they get all the treatment they need, or just the meds?

What happens if GID gets removed from the DSM, and instead of getting help for GID, we just get the meds?  It works out for people who actually have GID, but what about the people who don't?  Hormones, although aren't terribly dangerous, but they do cause a lot of irreversible changes that could cause mental illnesses in people who don't have them.  Should I be able to walk into my GP's office and say, "I have GID", and get hormones and a referral letter for SRS?

Incidents of detransition and regret are very rare, and happen even with concurrent psychological counseling. I feel that they are too uncommon to warrant the psychological stress and harm caused BY the psychiatric profession in an aim of "protecting you from yourself" because of the extremely rare cases of regret, which are often not prevented by psychological counseling anyway.

The system should help people who seek help, it should not however hinder people who seek help who by all other indications are perfectly mentally healthy because it assumes we're too incompetent to know what we're doing until we can prove otherwise. Which it does because we're classed as a mental disorder!

In an effort to be so overly cautious to prevent people from transitioning and regretting it, the system creates faaaar more victims in the people who need to transition but can't.

Quote from: asfsd4214 on October 25, 2009, 01:16:27 AM
You could still see a therapist if it were removed from the DSM, again I ask, how many people are seeing a therapist in an aim of bringing their gender identity in line with their bodies anyway?

I disagree, their only understanding comes from talking to people like us. They don't understand what causes it or how to scientifically affirm that you have it. They're just guessing as much as anyone else is.

I do see a therapist, but not to align my mind to my body, but my body to my mind. The former is impossible IMO.

I don't see why you disagree to what I said, I know that most of what they know is from working with those who are TS/TG or are themselves TS/TG (like my therapist). I didn't say how they know more or where they learned it, just that are more aware of the condition (from my experience). No one knows what causes it, didn't say they do.

My concern is that if it is taken out of the DSM, then who treats me? A doctor who knows nothing about it? Sure 30 years from now it may be as accepted as the gays are accepted now, but if that's the case I won't be here 30 years from now. I need to be treated now and now the only solution is the route I'm taking, take that away then WHAT? That is my question, my concern. What are you or others who are pushing to have it removed proposing takes their place in caring for us, for ME?

I agree that I don't want to be classified as having a mental condition, but I need to know how it would be changed from mental to medical. That's all.

Deanna

Nevermind, didn't read the last line of the above post.

It depens on a  lot of things. I put it in this way: What it tells about our society that we must demand moving the GID from the DSM? (Julie Marie mentioned the important things).

Quote from: glendagladwitch on October 25, 2009, 12:19:43 AM
As an alternative to removing GID from the DSM, we could just put everything else in.  Like being Catholic.  Liking chocolate.  Wanting to get married.  That way, psychiatrists can treat for everything.

Oh my goodness THANK YOU.

Quote from: Julie Marie on October 25, 2009, 12:54:44 AM
Since it's considered a MENTAL DISORDER, you are then directed to have psychiatric counseling.  And your insurance will cover that.

My insurance won't even cover that unless my therapist lies about it. He's not going to do that. And he shouldn't have to. So it's all out of pocket for me.

Quote from: asfsd4214 on October 25, 2009, 01:16:27 AM
I ask, how many people are seeing a therapist in an aim of bringing their gender identity in line with their bodies anyway?

I like this question.
My answer is this - because it's not an option.  Not in the sense that it's not available as an option, but in the sense that I don't know of any treatment that work that way.  Were the option available, I would take that road.  Save me a ton of money.  It goes back to "what if there was a pill that could make your GID go away, would you take it?"


I also think this is one of those types of questions that can never really be answered, until there is hard proof that points to something.  Until then, I think people will always argue over it.

Quote from: asfsd4214 on October 25, 2009, 01:43:59 AM
Incidents of detransition and regret are very rare, and happen even with concurrent psychological counseling. I feel that they are too uncommon to warrant the psychological stress and harm caused BY the psychiatric profession in an aim of "protecting you from yourself" because of the extremely rare cases of regret, which are often not prevented by psychological counseling anyway.

The system should help people who seek help, it should not however hinder people who seek help who by all other indications are perfectly mentally healthy because it assumes we're too incompetent to know what we're doing until we can prove otherwise. Which it does because we're classed as a mental disorder!

Who's to say we aren't incompetent?  Should a doctor give a person chemo therapy for claiming to have cancer?  Just because you have some symptoms that are common to a type of cancer, doesn't mean that you have cancer, and sure doesn't mean that you should be on chemo.  What about reading the symptoms of something online, and thinking you have it just because you have some of the symptoms?


Current postoperative regret is approximately 1%, maybe a little less.  I understand the argument for SRS requirements being restrictive, but do you honestly think that less people would regret it if they made the decision without any therapy?

Malpractice happens.  From what I can find, there are about 4 malpractice cases per 100 cases.  Maybe a little higher, maybe a little lower.  Maybe the current system is too restrictive.  The current numbers show that SRS regret is less than the amount of malpractice.  Maybe they should be less restrictive.  I don't know.

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Post Merge: October 25, 2009, 02:32:55 AM

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Quote from: Arch on October 25, 2009, 02:27:09 AM
My insurance won't even cover that unless my therapist lies about it. He's not going to do that. And he shouldn't have to. So it's all out of pocket for me.

I ask again, why should we change GID?

Why not work on changing insurance?

It's not a disorder.  Just like being homosexual isn't one.

Bam.  Case closed.

All of the insurance stuff is needlessly complicated.

Why do people think it's a disorder?

Quote from: Valerie Elizabeth on October 25, 2009, 02:31:39 AM
Who's to say we aren't incompetent?  Should a doctor give a person chemo therapy for claiming to have cancer?  Just because you have some symptoms that are common to a type of cancer, doesn't mean that you have cancer, and sure doesn't mean that you should be on chemo.  What about reading the symptoms of something online, and thinking you have it just because you have some of the symptoms?

If you can pay for it, maybe you should be able to get it.

But that's an entirely different situation, cancer can be scientifically proven as a condition you suffer from.
GID on the other hand, is entirely subjective no matter who diagnosis it. If a therapist diagnoses it, they are only doing so based on what you have told them. Is that any more accurate than you who is actually LIVING it can do?

Quote from: Valerie Elizabeth on October 25, 2009, 02:31:39 AM
Current postoperative regret is approximately 1%, maybe a little less.  I understand the argument for SRS requirements being restrictive, but do you honestly think that less people would regret it if they made the decision without any therapy?

We're not talking about SRS, you could easily restrict SRS on the basis of RLE if need be. If you are clearly living successfully in your identified gender, then SRS is simply correcting a problem with your body, and no longer anything to do with mental illness. We're talking about the diagnosis of GID and its place as a mental disorder. And by extension access to earlier stages of treatment like HRT. Which are also not entirely reversible, but far less so than SRS and potentially far more beneficial to social functioning.

Quote from: Valerie Elizabeth on October 25, 2009, 02:31:39 AM
I ask again, why should we change GID?

Why not work on changing insurance?

And I for one will answer again.... because there is absolutely no evidence it is a mental disorder, and growing evidence that it is not.

The DSM is for mental disorders.

That is why.

Ya I'll get the wrath of Khan for this but what the heck...

Firstly I have no problem with GID being listed as a mental disorder, it certainly isn't a physical disorder, for why would I have tried self mutilation to get rid of my male genitals, and why would I have planned suicide to get away from the pain?  My genitals didn't tell my brain that they should be female.

It would seem for many folks in the US that this is all about insurance coverage and the funding of treatment.  I thing it is wrong to go after the medical community, a community that for the most part recognizes our condition and supports us, we or in the case of the US, we should be going after the insurance companies.

-={LR}=-