OK here how it goes,
im from NYCity
I have been living as a Gay (boy since i was 17yo), almost 12 years, Have a lot of friends. Met many many GAY guys in my life, as friends, as sexual partners, i had 3 boyfriends in my all life. But had quite a lot of 1 night stands. Of course interracted with Gay guys via internet, bars, work.
I came across that MOST Gay guys are Transgenders, i just think they don't want to -"SAY it"....
They ALL well most of them talk very Feminine, no matter how hard they work on there bodys they do have muscles they still wave there hands like woman, they only listen and relate and idolize to Female popstars or icons, they TALK about womans fashion, but they consider themselves GAYS...well thats not all -> 99% of Gay guys that i have met in my life (as friends or lovers whatever) when i ask them SO -what type of man do you like?
there answer is always the same  #1 Str8 acting, masculine, muscular, handsome -> they desribe a typical hunky Heteresexual guy.
Everytime i take my  str8 Guyfriends to Most popular Bars, nightclubs launges in NYCity, where hottest (Gays) are -> My str8 handsome friends being attacked by Gays -they give there  Tel#'s, there adresses...
Don't you think that Most Gays are Transgenders just don't want to talk about it.. They call themselves GAYS.
Most of the time , ALL almost all my gay friends when they meet gay guys in Bars or whatever, they have sex, they never hear from each other ever again...They get borred very fast from each other,
I THINK we all crave for that Str8 man -> But i think no one wants to bring that out of water, how much Gay man and str8 man have Chemistry...
NOW of course there are few exceptions Gay guy dating and having great relashionship with a Gay guy (But very FEW -i have to say very FEW) im talking about Majority .
I am very curious about your Thoughts...?  Please don't attack me for what i am saying. Just think about it and share your opinion.

I think Gays are gay, not transgender.

There are loads of studies on the subject. None of them would concur with your supposition.

For me, 6' 5', broad shoulders, smaller waist, strong arms and I am all over it like white on rice.  Yes I love my GF and she me, but we both still look at the srt8 guys.

As to Gays, they are gay, period.  Yes they may do all the stereotypical movements that society thinks they must do.  But if you asked them, No they are still men.  Men who like men.


Janet

Quote from: Catherine on October 27, 2009, 10:00:28 AM
I think Gays are gay, not transgender.

There are loads of studies on the subject. None of them would concur with your supposition.

What she says.

And for the record, I'm not seeking a "straight-acting" boyfriend!

Gay men like having their man parts. They like being men with other men. They may display feminine mannerisms but many times those are affectations. Some transsexual women may go through a period of time where they consider if they are gay- I know I did, even to to the point of moving in and living with a gay man for several months in a relationship. Ultimately I concluded I was not a gay man, I was a woman (as I already knew) who liked both men and women. I just couldn't get into the gay male lifestyle because it wasn't me and I hated having man parts. I still love men very much but the only thing "gay" about me is that I still like women too. There is a qualitative difference.

We can look at this statistically.
Maybe anywhere from 2% to 10% of the population is homosexual.
Maybe anywhere from 1 in 30,000 to 1 in 3,000 of the population is transgendered.
That's quite a disparity in number to say that most of the larger group actually belongs to the smaller group.

As mentioned, gay men like their male parts. Their dearest wish in life is not to have them turned into female parts.

Although I am currently reading and enjoying Chelsea Handler's humorous memoir, "My Horizontal Life: A Collection of One-Night Stands", that is not my style in the least.

Quote from: Laura91 on October 27, 2009, 09:50:39 AM
Ewwwwwwwww

I'm a pansexual male (with female bits.. but working on that) in a homosexual marriage with another pansexual male.
IF my transsexuality was about having sex with the gender-appropriate partner, then I shouldn't be wanting to change my sex... and in fact, if that hypothesis is correct, I should be seeking a female partner, not my tall, strong, intelligent man of a partner.. *sighs slightly* Boy really gets my blood flowing..

er.. where was I...

Oh right.
If "gay men" are all actually "trans women", does that mean I'm a transwoman?

I've met enough gay men in my life to say that no matter how effeminate they are they are still gay men.  It's as FP says, they still like their male parts.  But that only answers the question are they closeted TSs?

Are they CDs?  That depends.  Many CDs I know are Bi but I can't say any are gay.  The gay men I've spent enough time with to get a feel for where they fall on the TG spectrum tells me they aren't TG in any way.  Most didn't have a clue about the TG world.  If they had TG tendencies, they would have known something.

Julie

By the form of logic you display, what the hell am I, then?  I'm a TS man who's same-gender inclined, and considers Prince and Marc Bolan "ideals boyfriends".

Correlation ≠ Causation

The fact that most (read: not all) gay men are somewhere on the scale of stereotypical doesn't make them "Transgender" -- unless you're counting "genderqueer" folks, in which case, well, almost everybody is to a minor degree, but even then, only in the most vague definitions of what "genderqueer" means.

The fact still remains that gay men see themselves as men who want to be with me.  TS/TG persons see themselves as better suited to the gender opposite that assigned at birth (in the vaguest possible terms), TS persons seek to alter that through hormonal and surgical means.  TS/TG sexual preferences are widely varied.

Im shocked little and still surprised how naive the world still is and you all "Believe what they tell you?"
Im out of closet for 12 years, and probably met 1000's Gay guys, i have good 30-40 friends and assosiates -I remember when we first met most of them were like "I am a top i love my penis" then few years later they are Versitle, then now they ALL are bottoms running around only after TOPS or str8 man.
LOL pffffffffffff...How comfortable are they with there dicks? THEY ARE very put how much they want to use it?
Everything is NOT black & White, if they Like there dicks and comfortable that means they are =GAYS, if they are NOT =means Transgender?
NO i don't think it much more deeper phsycological issues there.
I believe if having surgery, becoming a woman was soo EASY there will be only 100 people in GAY Parade the rest would ve tranformed LONG LONG time ago to WOMAN before YOU ALL know it.
I think for average GAY man life is kinda lonely ( We all know that ) don't even lie to youself...We don't get many many phone calls from MAN to ask as out, nor to have sex with us for 3rd time.
As im approaching in my 30's i know for sure that there is not that much of a line outside of my doors,
I am above Above average looking guy i did Modeling (pro modeling), i have nice body, i work out, im OK with my looks YET i don't have even 1 GAY guy asking me out last few years-WHY? could be its because of me too i know for sure i am not sooo attracted to them --99% i see and catch myself looking at str8 man....But so as the REST of my all Friends -and people i know.
The other day i was at the GYM, i notice there are 6-7 Gay guys around me "Working out too", when all of the sudden this studly str8 guy walked in and start working out, I saw and im not jocking ALL 7 Gay guys start staring i mean STARING at that str8 guy..the guy felt very uncomfortable and went to do Bike...WHY were all those 7 gay guys weren't even looking at each other? They were FEM, Bottoms who have NO Desire towards each other..
I am not saying -> Ohh they should go and do surgery NO, we are born with penises most of us, its part of us, so we have to deal with that , we have to start feel comfortable with it....But problem is the ONES that we REALLY LIKE don't like -Gay guys( they are not attracted to Gay guys) ...and few BRAVE gay guys-aka "Transganders" they go all the way an do surgerys..
IF Surgery or Transformation was an easy thing to do as i said "there will be very  few GAY MAN LEFT "
Don't take it personalty but my experience this is what it is.
In the End...WHY in all channels you see GAy man -talk about Womans cloths , shoes, hair, nails, they are much more passionate then Woman or even Transexuals, =Because THEY ARE WOMAN inside, and LIVE and feel alive when they talk about That.
I almost never seen when GAY man talk about Sports like that?LOL and i watch a lot of sports channels..
There are FEW gay man who love sports, who are Tops, who are masculine (don't get me wrong ) but there are like 2-5% Maximum. the REST GAYSare "I am a WOMAN in LOOVE" LOL

OK LET ME put it simple and primitive WAY if you are a GAY MAN -> and you relate  mostly to WOMAN -and MADONNA, KYLIE, Judie Garland..talking about Fashion, looking and drulling over str8 man, wanting muscles to f..k u, etc... then you re Transgener. You re NOT a MAN anymore.
Transgener can not be only ONE WAY -> I am a MAN but i feel like a WOMAN (its not as simple).
I am a GAY MAN -> I always knew i wanted to be a Woman or a Girl whatever....BUT in the End its not about what i WANT, its what I HAVE.
MAN should relate to MALE role models END of that. Don't bull->-bleeped-<- me

This topic boggles my mind =/

You do realise these are usually the views of extremely close minded cis people? The kind who think transwomen only transition so they can pick up guys easier. It's nothing to do with sex or orientation. Many of the girls here are lesbians, how does that fit in?

What about us gay trans guys? I'm a gay man trapped in a womans body who secretly wants to be a woman?

Quote from: Jeatyn on October 27, 2009, 02:08:06 PM
This topic boggles my mind =/

You do realise these are usually the views of extremely close minded cis people? The kind who think transwomen only transition so they can pick up guys easier. It's nothing to do with sex or orientation. Many of the girls here are lesbians, how does that fit in?

What about us gay trans guys? I'm a gay man trapped in a womans body who secretly wants to be a woman?

Im sorry i don't understand your Question -
What about us gay trans guys? Im a gay man ...?what is your point?

Again.
Dude.

I'm a bottom, I'm a feminine man, does that mean I would change into a woman? NO!
I was born with female parts. I'm working on changing my sex from female to male.

Being a sexually submissive male DOES NOT equate ->-bleeped-<-.

Quote from: kimwilde12 on October 27, 2009, 02:10:14 PM
Im sorry i don't understand your Question -
What about us gay trans guys? Im a gay man ...?what is your point?

If you're a gay man then why are you transitioning?

I didnt' transition, i so far just dress up as a a girl and go out with friends,
I always wanted to have relashionship with str8 man, im in to mostly str8 man..this is The only way i get attention from them.
If i had a button to push, and become a woman i would ve pushed that button LONG TIME AGO...
Now why im not doing it, I don't have enough $$$, im scared of surgery, there are few other issues, im hairy more or less to be a woman.. Etc....
World is not "OHH its BLACK or its WHITE"
I always thougt i am a GAY MAN but my life and experience showing me that i AM NOT Gay man...How can i be Gay and not be in to gays? That leaves me with --> Nothing.
DO I enjoy womans cloths YES< do i love to be a Girl yes, do i like to be the WIFE YES... -But as i said its not WHat i want..its what i have
what can i do?

Quote from: kimwilde12 on October 27, 2009, 01:58:08 PMOK LET ME put it simple and primitive WAY if you are a GAY MAN -> and you relate  mostly to WOMAN -and MADONNA, KYLIE, Judie Garland then you re Transgener. You re NOT a MAN anymore.
MAN should relate to MALE role models END of that. Don't bull->-bleeped-<- me

Bull.

If you're going to be naming singers, think about it this way:  Who sings more about being in love with men -- men or women?  I love Noel Coward, but every recording of "Mad About the Boy" made in his (very fabulous) lifetime was performed by a woman.

Quote from: Jeatyn on October 27, 2009, 02:08:06 PM
What about us gay trans guys?

Or TS lesbians.  The gods know I've run into plenty of them in my lifetime.

You've used the phrase "the world isn't black and white" twice now but I'm pretty sure that's what everyone in this thread is trying to say to you.

"Gay men = women in denial" is your argument, with no wiggle room....maybe it's you that should realise that the world isn't black and white?

Transsexuality has nothing to do with sexual orientation. The fact that there are many transwomen who are lesbians and transguys who are gay proves that.

Just because a man isn't all alpha male and doesn't aspire to be john wayne doesn't mean he isn't a man. If there are men who think beyonce is a good role model, so what? What's her gender got to do with her character as a person?

If all gay men are trans, then I must have been a gay man...

hmmmmm...

That must mean that all trans people are gay men...

hmmmmm...

So transmen are actually gay men...

hmmmmmm...

I think someone has confused gender identity with sexual orientation...

hmmmmmm...

Makes much more sense.

-Sandy

Quote from: kimwilde12 on October 27, 2009, 02:17:43 PM
what can i do?

1. quit cussing, you're bad at it
2. generalizing other peoples sexuality doesn't fly in the real world
3. ->-bleeped-<- isn't what defines transwomen

and finally

4. please respect the gender identities of others

I agree with Flan.

Sarah L.