Quote from: Alyssa M. on October 26, 2009, 04:48:49 PM
Hmm.....

Ah, I see. But your answer was all about physical appearance anyway, which was exactly the point. We determine someone's gender by making the assumption, generally valid, that their gender matches their sex.

If you really want to figure out someone's internal gender, I suggest you employ a Vulcan mind meld. It works perfectly.   

Yes, obviously I am referring to physical appearance and everything else aside, I'm not trying to be mean but many people simply "don't care" what gender/sex Transgendered people "think they are"...I've constantly heard that non-Trans people see the physical part of people not inner---So using that, I'm wondering what gives people away...How can we tell one's "gender/sex"

Just to be clear (in case there was any confusion), when I said, "your answer," I was referring to Shannon's post. I caught your drift from the start. "Ah, I see" meant that I saw why Shannon interpreted the question the way she did.

The way you put it here, Tetra, specifically -- "I'm wondering what gives people away...How can we tell one's 'gender/sex'" -- is interesting, because you can think of it as a two-part question. First, what are the physical differences that are relevant, and second, how do we interpret them. Your original post also suggested (to me, at least) both those aspects of the issue. I think they are both interesting, and I've spent a lot of time thinking about the first one (it's essential if you want to be able to pass), but the second is a much deeper question.

Quote from: Alyssa M. on October 26, 2009, 04:48:49 PM
Hmm.....

Ah, I see. But your answer was all about physical appearance anyway, which was exactly the point. We determine someone's gender by making the assumption, generally valid, that their gender matches their sex.

If you really want to figure out someone's internal gender, I suggest you employ a Vulcan mind meld. It works perfectly.   

People's voice, body language etc to me is controlled by the mind which the gender plays a part of. The way we express ourselves comes from within.
Physical appearance... to me is not. I should clarify my points a little better sorry. :S

At lunch today at the next table was a woman who looked remarkably like John Lithgow in "The World According to Garp," except perhaps a little shorter and a little broader.  She had a fairly masculine face, was dressed in jeans and sweatshirt, and it wasn't too hard to imagine her playing at least semi-pro football.  I assume she was a natal woman because:
     1) the chances of running into another transwoman are slim,
     2) her facial skin was smooth,
     3) she carried herself as a woman of that size and dressed that way would,
     4) she appeared completely comfortable with herself, and
     5) she was with a man who looked of the same socio-economic class as she and who treated her like a partner.

While I was thinking about her, a woman of about 30 came in – slender, over 6 feet tall, long straight hair, nicely dressed, pretty in a rather exotic way.  I assume she was a natal woman also.  She was alone, but 1-4 apply.

There are many cues as to the sex/gender of the person we see.  Some of them are external (size, shape, clothing, hair) but many are internal (carriage, behavior, mannerisms, attitude).  I really think that you could dress up a 5' 6" small-boned man who has a pretty face and smooth skin, and if he acted like a man or was nervous in his presentation he would be clocked as a man.

The cues are subtle.  As trans-people we pass a lot better when we just let ourselves be the gender we are inside.  (Sometimes easier said than done. )

JMHO

- Kate

Quote from: K8 on October 27, 2009, 06:00:06 PM
At lunch today at the next table was a woman who looked remarkably like John Lithgow in "The World According to Garp," except perhaps a little shorter and a little broader.  She had a fairly masculine face, was dressed in jeans and sweatshirt, and it wasn't too hard to imagine her playing at least semi-pro football.  I assume she was a natal woman because:
     1) the chances of running into another transwoman are slim,
     2) her facial skin was smooth,
     3) she carried herself as a woman of that size and dressed that way would,
     4) she appeared completely comfortable with herself, and
     5) she was with a man who looked of the same socio-economic class as she and who treated her like a partner.

While I was thinking about her, a woman of about 30 came in – slender, over 6 feet tall, long straight hair, nicely dressed, pretty in a rather exotic way.  I assume she was a natal woman also.  She was alone, but 1-4 apply.

There are many cues as to the sex/gender of the person we see.  Some of them are external (size, shape, clothing, hair) but many are internal (carriage, behavior, mannerisms, attitude).  I really think that you could dress up a 5' 6" small-boned man who has a pretty face and smooth skin, and if he acted like a man or was nervous in his presentation he would be clocked as a man.

The cues are subtle.  As trans-people we pass a lot better when we just let ourselves be the gender we are inside.  (Sometimes easier said than done. )

JMHO

- Kate

Your answer to me is the most appeasing and the answer I think explains everything the best! :]