This morning at breakfast, my lovely and precious wife showed me a card we received in the mail the day before. It was a baby shower card with an invitation to attend. Now, this was sent from someone in our lives who we both have known for quite sometime. They know about me and have for sometime. The mother of the soon to be new father is our best friend.

Before my wife handed the card to me, I had already formed a question, "was I invited?" Her answer, "no". They have only invited my wife to attend. To say that I felt upset would be an understatement. I have been a mentor as such for this soon to be father for several years and to his two brothers. Their dad was my best friend when he was alive. The beautiful girl this man married is a living doll. She's a nurse and a very caring person. I know they both have taken my transition as quite a blow and maybe it's too much to expect in being invited to their baby shower. As such, I will help my wife pick something nice out for the event and take comfort knowing that in some way I will be there anyway.

What's my point of all this whining? Well, since my transition has begun, we have received no less than three invitations to baby showers. One of which was for my own granddaughter. Yet, for not one of these events was I invited. So, I am learning to take this as a measure of non-acceptance by those who are doing the inviting. I think it sends a clear message and it kind of hits pretty hard. The funny thing is, they all still need me and my guidance when they are in tough personal situations and don't think twice in giving me  a call and ask how I feel or what I think. Yet, in inviting me to a baby shower; I'm forgotten.

So, what do the rest of you think? Is this a good measure for how we are accepted by those in our lives?


Dawn       

It's hard to know if it's intentional, or whether they're not sure if you'd even be interested in going.

Even though you are a woman, to them you used to be a man, and men traditionally don't go (and most aren't interested anyway!) in baby showers.  So it could just be they thought you wouldn't be interested.

I'm the last one to ask about the etiquette of things, but could your wife discretely ask if not inviting you was an oversight?  Their answer would reveal whether the slight was intentional or not.  As far as a shower for your granddaughter, I think I would have spoken up about that one!

Jay

I think Jay has the calmer head then me, because I would mark those as intentional and would be writing them off.
With Jays suggestion in mind I suggest that either you or your wife make the call and specifically ask about your lack of invitation. 
If it's an oversight/carry over like Jay suggests it will be fixed.  If it's not then they really are not respecting you and it's time to consider cutting your ties to them.  If they don't consider you important enough to invite then they may not the kind of folks you want to keep in your life anyways.

It may take a while for them to accept you enough to want to invite you to female oriented events.  Do you interact with them in female mode normally ?  I'm not trying to give 'em a buy out, rather saying that patience is a virtue in how we deal with friends as they adjust to our transition. 

Quote from: Dawn D. on October 29, 2009, 12:14:12 PM

So, what do the rest of you think? Is this a good measure for how we are accepted by those in our lives?


Dawn     

They appear to accept you as a friend, a mentor and a transsexual, they just don't consider you female.  I had similar experiences and this is why starting over as female, in a new place with new people who don't know your past is the only way to be "accepted" because acceptance will never be what you want it to be.  Women aren't "accepted", they just are.

I think Jay might have some insight there. Now that I think about it I have never, ever been to a baby shower. I sure hope that's all it is 

I think the "accepted as trans but not accepted as a woman" theory has legs but there's also this-

A lot of people are overtly sensitive to making other's uncomfortable. That is, it's a "needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one" as it were.

Say they are inviting 20 women, and they are concerned maybe 10 or 12 of them don't approve of you and would be uncomfortable there....so they calculate it's better not to challenge that (and possibly unaware how much it might hurt you)

and, on that last - there's another possibility. Maybe they just don't "get" that even though you are a woman, that a longtime man would WANT to go to a baby shower.

In that regard, maybe a discrete inquiry would be very appropriate.

In fact, even if it is a "needs of the many" calculation - I think if I was you i'd still want to know that just so i could determine if it's the host who doesn't accept you as a woman or just a consideration of others besides you.

Quote from: Laura Hope on October 29, 2009, 04:47:18 PM
I think the "accepted as trans but not accepted as a woman" theory has legs but there's also this-

A lot of people are overtly sensitive to making other's uncomfortable. That is, it's a "needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one" as it were.

Ok, interesting theory.  However, I was born a guy I live as a guy still and I've been invited to (and attended) wedding and baby showers.  No one was worried about appearance or how others would take it.  So this just doesn't sit right with me.

This discussion however is doing no good.  We can sit here and bonce theories around until the end of time.  In the end a phone call needs to be made and then Dawn can make an informed decision.   Until then we're just blowing around ideas that may have no foothold in what's really going on.

Good Luck Dawn.  I hope this was just a simple mistake.

Thanks to you all for your replies! Like what most of you have said, I need to inquire as to whether or not it was an oversight. Although I tend to feel it wasn't. And, yes to Charlene, I do only present as female to them. It's the only way I present to anyone anymore. How you see me in my avatar is how I present. Although I do change clothes now and again, lol.

Quote from: Julie Wilson on October 29, 2009, 03:08:13 PM
They appear to accept you as a friend, a mentor and a transsexual, they just don't consider you female.  I had similar experiences and this is why starting over as female, in a new place with new people who don't know your past is the only way to be "accepted" because acceptance will never be what you want it to be.  Women aren't "accepted", they just are.

I think this may be the reality of this issue. And, believe me, if starting over somewhere else was a realistic option for me. I'd probably have taken it.


Dawn

After I came out to & accepted myself, 2 or 3 yrs later I started coming out to my family. I told my youngest(older) sister first & her reaction was OMG! Have you told Mom?! My Mom is naturaly high strung, but had gotten to an age where she was done with all the drama. I told my Son last cuz I wanted him to be out of high school, even though I knew he would be able to accept it & would support me to the end. But going back to the first X-mas together after coming out I was so terrified of even rolling down my car window to talk to the gate guard(I had not gone fulltime at this point & was terrified of going out my front door). After I got inside & said my hellos, I heard my Mom say "he looks just like a prostitute", & my Sister say "yeah I know". At dinner my brother in law & his family openly made several backhanded comments. My self esteem was at an all time low, yet none of these words or actions caused me any pain. I can take all the worst from others, but untill I can feel good about myself, I will be a mess inside. I don't need any kind of outside acceptance, but rather what I interperate as personal results.

Dawn, I think Laura Hope's reply is good.  There may be some other issue than that they don't accept you.  Communication can help resolve that.  Perhaps for some reason it may not have occured to them to invite you.  (In some ways, those around us are transitioning with us.)

And I'd like to insert one small vote for not needing to throw everything away and starting from scratch somewhere else.  Some may need to do that, but it is not universal because it hasn't been my own experience.  YMMV

If you can make some delicate enquiries, Dawn (or not delicate - your choice), it may help ease your mind.  At least then you will have a better idea of what's going on.

- Kate

Quote from: Bellaon7 on October 29, 2009, 07:45:51 PM
After I came out to & accepted myself, 2 or 3 yrs later I started coming out to my family. I told my youngest(older) sister first & her reaction was OMG! Have you told Mom?! My Mom is naturaly high strung, but had gotten to an age where she was done with all the drama. I told my Son last cuz I wanted him to be out of high school, even though I knew he would be able to accept it & would support me to the end. But going back to the first X-mas together after coming out I was so terrified of even rolling down my car window to talk to the gate guard(I had not gone fulltime at this point & was terrified of going out my front door). After I got inside & said my hellos, I heard my Mom say "he looks just like a prostitute", & my Sister say "yeah I know". At dinner my brother in law & his family openly made several backhanded comments. My self esteem was at an all time low, yet none of these words or actions caused me any pain. I can take all the worst from others, but untill I can feel good about myself, I will be a mess inside. I don't need any kind of outside acceptance, but rather what I interperate as personal results.

I admire your fortitude. We don't have family dinners anymore but I'd have zero hesitation walking out on one if my family did something like that - and making it my last one until they got it together.

if i was the wife i would send back a note declining the invitation and thanking them for considering me but since my spouse was not included i regret that i will be unable to attend. to me this would be my way of signaling my support for my s/o in her transition period.
i dont feel any other responce is acceptable at least to me
jessica

Dear Dawn:  There will always be these challenges with acceptance.  When I was married I was on hormones to suppress libido and had six TIA's.   I was going to become a vegetable or die if I continued.  My wife was deliberately making it impossible to live with her in the hopes that I would be the one to take the awful step.  The church wanted me to stay with her because it would look bad if a prominent member of the church divorced.  My kids wanted me to stay with her because they wanted their family intact.  I knew what God wanted me to do so after trying to placate them for a long time I did what had to be done.  It's been four years.  My ex has asked me not to even think kind thoughts of her.  Yet my kids (all adults) dream of us getting back together only then will it be right.  After all this time they are reluctant to invite me to things.  They have a fit when I talk to another woman or touch one.  It's painful. Most of us think only about ourselves.

You're right you can't just run away; you have a business, a wife, and family.  I do think I would ask my wife to discreetly request if it was intentional or an oversight, because you would like to be included if they were comfortable.  They need to know it would be fun for you.  After all, the purpose is getting gifts for the baby, the bride, whatever, and having fun.  You certainly are not going to hurt that.  Sometimes people just don't know, they probably have a hard time thinking of you as a woman.  I always wanted to sit down with the girls and chat.  But when I walked in the room they would all get quiet, look at me, and I was struggling to keep a conversation going.  They saw me as a man, whatever that meant.  I wonder if it would have been different if they had known I saw myself as a girl.  Perhaps that's your family and friend's problem.  They don't know that you were always a girl, you did what was uncomfortable for you to be a man for them; inside you always wanted to be part of the female celebrations.

You deal with this everyday, it's all new for them.  Help them grow.

Randi1214

Dawn
Jay has a point, I hope he's correct. I was heartbroken with your story. I find three kinds of people
1 People that will never accept
2 People that accept you warmly
3 People that will accept over time
People we think of as friends turn out to fair weather friends. Everything is fine as long as they don't have to deal with problems. Family on the other hand should be supportive some may take time.
Hang in
Sarah

I'm sorry it's been so long since I opened this thread. I should have posted and update to this situation sooner. I have appreciated all the advice and kind words expressed here.

This situation it turns out, was no oversight on my friends part. It seems that I have fallen out of favor with this side of the family, so to speak. It was determined that my transitioning makes it too discomforting to be included in their social settings.

As such, we simply sent a gift ahead to the mother-to-be. My wife proudly stated, "If you can't go. Then I won't go". Now that's how you measure acceptance! She's such a sweetheart.

I haven't spoken to these friends since then and I know it's only a matter of time, but, they'll need something from me at some point not to distant in the future (it's just the way they are). I'm just not sure what I'll do when that time comes.

Of course this would not be a pleasant event for any of us. Yet, it is a part of the process, sad as it is. The way I see all of this now is, I cannot afford to dwell over this situation. It causes too much distress emotionally. I simply have to face the fact that this process is constantly evolving and there really is not much that I can do to alter the feelings and fears of those that refuse to allow for difference. I'll do what I can when people have questions and concerns, so long as they afford me an opportunity on a level playing field. However, this is my life and this is who I am.   

Sarah; I'd like to add a fourth to your list. 4 People who claim to accept you and really do not. And I agree with the thought about fair weather friends too. I have a couple of that type now as well.

Thanks, all!


Dawn

Dawn, I'm so sorry to hear about this.  I know how hard it is, I wasn't invited to my brother's baby shower (well, the one for his wife), so I get how it felt.  I think it's important to focus on those people who do accept you, not in spite of your being trans, but just for who you are. 

For those friends who will only want something from you, you might be better off just getting away from them.  That whole attitude can be really poisonous and draining in the long run, and you don't deserve to be treated that way. 

I loved what a wise man taught a group of us years ago. "There are two kinds of people: People who draw a circle and draw you out, and People who draw a circle and draw you in." 

It has focused my life for years, always asking where am I drawing the line.  I love short thoughts like the Savior gave, easy to remember profound in their implications.  This phrase has that same quality.  I have drawn my circle Dawn and drawn you and your wife in.  Good people!  Merry Christmas

Randi1214

Dawn I really feel your pain. Feelings are something that is not exposed to attack. After all our feelings are something very personal.
I know the price you pay is very high and no one should have to go through that. I also feel that woman like you and to all our sisters out there trying to live your lifes are true pioneers. Flag bearers, in my mind heros in our community
I know this may sound sappy, but it's my feelings
Sarah

I feel I must give more thank yous to you all! Your support and caring thoughts have meaning beyond measure.

Jessica:

QuoteFor those friends who will only want something from you, you might be better off just getting away from them.  That whole attitude can be really poisonous and draining in the long run, and you don't deserve to be treated that way.

This is pretty much the way I feel about this as well. I won't toot my own horn in the level of support I had for these "friends" and they're issues that have occurred over the years. However, it is pretty disheartening at the shallowness they express in return. Thank you!

Randi:
I do so, appreciate your most caring thoughts. I feel so very thankful. Merry Christmas to you and yours as well!

Sarah:
Sappy you are not!

Isn't it odd that those whose feelings you might have had so much concern for, find without real thought, trouncing upon the feelings of others can be done so cavalier? As for the price I have paid personally, well, I have to say I still feel extremely fortunate that I've been able to enjoy the level of success and continued support that I do have. That's due to sisters such as yourself, brothers and all the rest here on this site, family and loyal friends, too. As well, my biggest supporter and most bestest friend ever, my lovely wife!

I follow in so many others footsteps that have come before me, I'm sure much braver than I. I'll proudly bear the flag for them, you and I. Yet a hero, I'm not. I do however, appreciate your sentiment!

Stay well, my firends!

Dawn