So...  I can't shake the feeling that we are somehow wrong in all of this.  I guess it's because I'm aware that gender is a social construct, and because I can't think of a single way in which coming out as transgendered is good except as a form of personal gratification.  I feel like I shouldn't even CARE what gender I am, but I can't help but feel that being male is wrong, and that being female is right.  It runs wholly counter to my regular reasoning, which goes "Good luck being successful," and "gender doesn't actually matter, it's who you are that matters," and "There's really no such thing as gender because it's a creation of the psyche."  Of course, there's a part of me that thinks that there are some inherent traits of gender.  But I dunno... I act like a guy most of the time (A particularly obstinate and forceful guy at that) but I feel like I'm missing something somewhere, in the form of a girl.  I might just be transplanting my co-dependent relationship focused nature on myself.... or I might be gay and unaccepting of it.... or just messed up.  I dunno.

as i view it there are 3 parts to the circles of gender

identity, the sense of self

role, which is made up by society and shaped by the individual (the stay at home dad is a good example of where traditional role is reversed)

and expression, which influences and is influenced by local custom and persons of influence in the media

in a way gender isn't logical, but then again many things of the human mind aren't, being yourself and accepting that is imho, probably a better practice then wondering whos little lala land you're busting by transcending the gender you were assigned with when a doctor or nurse slapped your ass after birth and said "It's a ____!"

I ask myself that a lot. Not that 'we' are wrong but more so I tell myself 'I' was born wrong. I can't shake the feeling of being a freak and knowing others do not see me as I see myself.  In many ways we're all similar in our issue, yet it's different for each and every one of us.  It's not something I'd wish on anyone and many times I think i'm paying for wrongs i've done in a past life.

Jester,

It sounds as though you are going through a very typical phase of coming to grips with your self. It sounds as though you are feeling guilty.

I don't beleive that coming out serves only for personal gratification. I feel very strongly that coming out in many instances brings loved ones closer to us. In some cases, it allows them to be nearer to us than ever before. So to say that it serves only for personal gratification does not paint the entire picture.

Our inner yearnings are not right or wrong. They merely are. The broad range of "nudges" that our our soul gives us telling us something ISN'T alligned - can't be judges logisitically or morally. What we feel is simply that. It just IS.


Hope that helps!


*huggles*

Does it matter if we are wrong? We are doing our best to correct our situation, by what means works for us personally and individually. Some people can live on without transitioning, some have to transition to live. When it comes down to it, transitioning is the last option. Nothing else has worked, so we do the drastic. It shouldn't matter if it's right or wrong if it works for us. If transitioning will keep me from killing myself, then what do I care about right or wrong? I did what I could.

Being TG, for me at least, isn't just about gender... it's about my body not feeling right. And for me, it's what speaks the loudest in this condition. Gender roles can be influenced or made up either by society or even ourselves, they can change all they like but it wont stop me from feeling uncomfortable in my body.

Quote from: Tristan H. on November 08, 2009, 04:33:43 PM
Does it matter if we are wrong? We are doing our best to correct our situation, by what means works for us personally and individually. Some people can live on without transitioning, some have to transition to live. When it comes down to it, transitioning is the last option. Nothing else has worked, so we do the drastic. It shouldn't matter if it's right or wrong if it works for us. If transitioning will keep me from killing myself, then what do I care about right or wrong? I did what I could.

Being TG, for me at least, isn't just about gender... it's about my body not feeling right. And for me, it's what speaks the loudest in this condition. Gender roles can be influenced or made up either by society or even ourselves, they can change all they like but it wont stop me from feeling uncomfortable in my body.

+rep for this. It's pretty much how I feel.

Quote from: Jester on November 08, 2009, 03:25:40 PM
So...  I can't shake the feeling that we are somehow wrong in all of this.  I guess it's because I'm aware that gender is a social construct, and because I can't think of a single way in which coming out as transgendered is good except as a form of personal gratification.  I feel like I shouldn't even CARE what gender I am, but I can't help but feel that being male is wrong, and that being female is right.  It runs wholly counter to my regular reasoning, which goes "Good luck being successful," and "gender doesn't actually matter, it's who you are that matters," and "There's really no such thing as gender because it's a creation of the psyche."  Of course, there's a part of me that thinks that there are some inherent traits of gender.  But I dunno... I act like a guy most of the time (A particularly obstinate and forceful guy at that) but I feel like I'm missing something somewhere, in the form of a girl.  I might just be transplanting my co-dependent relationship focused nature on myself.... or I might be gay and unaccepting of it.... or just messed up.  I dunno.

It is sooo tough to tell really and therefore comes down to a personal decision - at least until medical science can appropriately and consistently diagnose us.  For me my GID is very influenced by the social world - so much so I believe it is very likely that my GID might very well be the result of social conditioning.  Being a feminine male who isn't accepted as such in any capacity is bound to cause dissonance - but could that dissonance cause GID without an underlying biological base?  Maybe? maybe not.  I'm not discounting a biological origin, but I just don't know - there is no way to test it.  I do know that I experience GID and so the task is - how do I deal with it.  I personally don't feel transition is necessary for me - I tried it, but I don't think it to be the best solution for me.

You ask an important question we should consider before making life altering decisions.

Tristan H. I completely agree with you , it's not just the social aspect, what bothers me most about my GID is how I feel about the way my body is working. How could social conditioning cause me to want to dismember my sex organs?? or swing into depression because of this hormone cycle..?? I want to stop this part of my body, that is functioning as it's supposed to....!

Jester, I agree with Kelli that you're trying to come to terms with this... but we can ask these questions all day long, and never find the truth. you have to find what feels right, within your self.

The idea of gender being "a social construct" was born out of the early "women's lib" movement in an effort to play-down any differences between male and female as being insignificant.

The idea that gender was somehow "conditioned" in early childhood, an idea prevalent from the 1940's and 50's, still has some followers despite some spectacular failures.

The most current indications coming from medicine and psychology are identifying differences in brain function between male and female. In psychiatry the difference appear early in life and show as difference in the developmental time-line and differences in the overall behavior that would roughly correspond with the child's physical development.

"Differences" is not a popular topic in this day and age as so many are anxious to define "difference" as either superior or inferior.

From where ever the difference spring, I found myself more and more disconnected from everything after age 8, like I was trying to blunder my way along in a country where I didn't speak the language. After "transition" (at age 24) the first thing that struck me was how bloody easy and natural life became almost over night. It became easy and natural because I was finally speaking my mother tongue.

Quote from: Northern Jane on November 09, 2009, 07:28:31 AM
After "transition" the first thing that struck me was how bloody easy and natural life became almost over night. It became easy and natural because I was finally speaking my mother tongue.

Bravo!!! That is it exactly for me. I feel like before where I was struggling to be "male", now that i'm living as female its like a setting on the chess game just went from complex to easy/beginner. I merely have to express myself the way I feel inside and it rings true with my gender. I wasn't male on my own. If I remember back to my life growing up, my elder brother was the idol and male role model I based how I behaved on. It was him that I modeled how I walked, talked, laughed etc. But despite all of that, I wasn't me and it showed through as a weak copy of someone else.
I grew up in a very religeous community and much of that still remains with me especially the stigma of transition. I grew up being taught that people like myself are freaks and found myself on the receiving end of othat very same belief. It comes down to in your heart, if you are being honest with yourself what rings true, the sex or the gender?

Since we all know everyone thinks and works based off of perceptions the question becomes how do you want people to perceive you? After all, YOU know who YOU are. It's other people that are trying to understand you. A transition is just as much for you as it is for everyone around you.

If you tell someone "I'm really a girl on the inside" and let's say they take you seriously. They may even try to treat you that way. But, it'll never be the same because they'll be seeing a man right in front of them constantly. It's not their fault.

Transition is necessary for the people around you to treat you the way you want to be treated. If you're really a girl then people around you are going to have to see a girl in front of them to be able to naturally treat you as such.

There is nothing wrong about transition. It's something we have to do if we honestly feel the way we do.

Quote from: Jester on November 08, 2009, 03:25:40 PM
or I might be gay and unaccepting of it....

If I was a girl, I'd be gay.

But yeah there isn't two ways to accend a tree.  If you can't get up there, you can never get stuck.