Sexual orientation and gender identity are completely different things.

NO ONE is 100% male or female.

Femininity and Masculinity are subjective.

Quote from: heatherrose on November 15, 2009, 11:07:04 PM

"then why do most of them act feminine?"

That's a very broad brush statement. Most homosexuals do not act feminine.
It's just that, the ones that act "normal" are not as noticible.

Best answer so far.  Effeminate men, drag queens, etc..., stand out.  Men who simply speak with a higher / softer voice also stand out.  This doesn't make them TS or TG.

Being TS/TG is the instinctive "knowledge" that one's gender identity does not match up with their physical sex, and desire to live completely as the opposite sex lives and is treated.  Some TS/TG persons choose to be "out" about being TS/TG, others don't.

Can't use logic & reason to talk a man out of a false assumption he didn't use logic nor reason to get to.

I always thought that some gay men acted femme to  attract other gay men.But that theory do's not hold water.I mean if you are a gay man,you want a man,not someone who is trying to emulate a female.I also found this interesting  that when i used to get really dressed up and go out to party it was the so called "straight" guys that would hit on me.The gay guys did not even give me a second look.

Both Gay men and M to F's live lives in some ways contra to the tradional views of what a man should be. My opinion.  True, a post-op stealth TG woman may not be a man any longer, but she started life identified as male in her community and went against the "expectations".

I think that in order to come to a serious understanding, we need to think far outside of the box of gender roles. A man can be extremely feminine and a woman can be extremely masculine yet at the same time be perfectly comfortable with their bodies. The same even applies to TG people. I am a pre-transition MTF yet most people I know do not consider me to be very feminine. At the same time I'm not all that masculine either. The important thing is that it really doesn't even make a difference. It is about how you feel inside, not just how you present.

Just because I feel like a girl does not mean I want to spend all day at the mall shopping. In fact I hate shopping. I also don't have any desire to have a pink cell phone or turn my apartment really girly. I even have two hobbies which are made up of predominately males: coin collecting, and shooting guns. None of this changes who I am, however. This also applies to cis-gendered people who are heterosexual. If you look around you most men in general are not masculine like the movies show them and most women are not feminine like the magazines show them. Believe it or not, an awful lot of our concepts of gender are man-made. Only a few hundred years ago, American and European men were wearing dresses and wigs. Go figure.

Quote from: Miniar on November 17, 2009, 07:03:59 AM
Can't use logic & reason to talk a man out of a false assumption he didn't use logic nor reason to get to.

Well-said.

Quote from: YoungSoulRebel on November 18, 2009, 01:59:15 AM
Well-said.

It's a mangled quote from somewhere, don't remember where.

Gender is an identity.  Straight/gay, those are "sexualities".

Testosterone is a funny thing.  Prisons are full of men.

I, personally, am very proud of who I was, as a straight male.  I was not particularly "masculine", or lets say, I do not have many neadrathal characteristics.  BUT as a male in society, I am recogonized.  AND I don't/didn't have the ability to be a complete AH.

 Estranged?

Quote from: Abby on November 19, 2009, 12:54:51 PMTestosterone is a funny thing.  Prisons are full of men.

Way to insult almost every TS man / FTM transsexual on this forum.  Go you.

You could use the example of someone like me for the sake of contrast.

I was born with a female body, a male brain, and a sexual preference for men.

So, currently, I'm a gay guy in a biologically female body. 

Although I identify as male, it's easier to present myself as female, so I've postponed doing much of anything about it for a long time.  But that might change soon.

Anyway, I'm certain I'm a TG gay guy - an FTM with a sexual preference for other guys.

This is a common misconception amongst people that don't have a clue about the differences between gender identity & sexual orientation.  You won't catch any gay man having GRS or taking hormones.  They like that special part of themselves between their legs & any of thought of losing their male virility will drive them crazy.