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STEALTH

Started by Bellaon7, November 04, 2009, 10:05:05 PM

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The None Blonde

Quote from: lexshue on November 16, 2009, 09:17:15 AM
More typical questions for me are:
* What kind of birth control do you use? -> Why are you sterile?
* Do you take any medication? -> Why do take estrogen?
* Why do you need to dilate?
etc

Of course most people are not so close to ask those kind of things. But with close friends it tends to come up as time passes.
I don't use birth control... Not every woman does. (I mean i use condoms rather than the pill as some friends do who dont get on with it)
My best friend knows i take estrogen, She asked why i had it in my room once, and I explained that I had no ovaries... solved both of those, and is entirely true. She thinks no less of me.
Dilate? Jebus,. if you're doing that infront of friends... erm... Just say its a dildo... loads of girls have them, we all get dry patches :D

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taru

Quote from: The None Blonde on November 16, 2009, 10:32:31 AM
My best friend knows i take estrogen, She asked why i had it in my room once, and I explained that I had no ovaries... solved both of those, and is entirely true. She thinks no less of me.

In liberal young circles most women who don't have ovaries *are* trans and people do know that. Most of my social circles seem to have 1-2% of trans people, so everyone is aware that trans inviduals exist.

No ovaries -> probably trans (in certain crowds).

Quote
Dilate? Jebus,. if you're doing that infront of friends... erm... Just say its a dildo... loads of girls have them, we all get dry patches :D

Maybe we are weird when we compare medicine cabinets, toys etc.

This came up with trekking two weeks and living together in a shared tent with very little privacy.
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Eamber

My greatest fear about death is that hell will be a small room where everyone inside does nothing but argue about stealth over and over again, until the rapture.

But seriously, the anti stealth sentiment - if you believe it exists - is probably just an inevitable product of how the trans community builds itself. Basically, you have two kinds of people who come into it. (This assumes everyone "enters" at the point they realize they are trans.) The first are the ones who, for whatever reason, won't be stealth at the end of transition. The second are the ones who will, eventually, manage it. Both basically start the same and have a lot in common. At this point, you don't have any conflict.

But, when you get to the point that both hypothetical types of people reach the end of transition, it changes. The people who are not stealth still feel a strong connection to their, err, "trans-ness". Whatever you wanna call it. So, they still think about it, still feel like talking about it, etc. So they remain on the forums. On the other hand, the people who go stealth have the opposite effect. The culture, types of conversations, and whatever, get boring, because it doesn't really connect to anything that happens in the "Real world" anymore. So, eventually, they bail out of boredom or some arguement and don't feel a complusion to return.

Thus, in the long run, you have a community that has a strong built up amount of out people, but only a passing in and out group of stealthers. Which leads to the overall melting pot not really "Getting" them. Which leads to topics like this, which just serves to bring out further the sense of dissonance stealth people get, which sometimes makes them hostile and appear elitist, if they don't just leave even faster.

That would be my theory on the whole deal, anyway. If trans support sites would stop breaking into debates over the same topic over and over and focused on helping people transitioning instead, both groups would probably stick around for longer.
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Bellaon7

Quote from: Eamber on November 16, 2009, 01:20:49 PM
My greatest fear about death is that hell will be a small room where everyone inside does nothing but argue about stealth over and over again, until the rapture.

But seriously, the anti stealth sentiment - if you believe it exists - is probably just an inevitable product of how the trans community builds itself. Basically, you have two kinds of people who come into it. (This assumes everyone "enters" at the point they realize they are trans.) The first are the ones who, for whatever reason, won't be stealth at the end of transition. The second are the ones who will, eventually, manage it. Both basically start the same and have a lot in common. At this point, you don't have any conflict.

But, when you get to the point that both hypothetical types of people reach the end of transition, it changes. The people who are not stealth still feel a strong connection to their, err, "trans-ness". Whatever you wanna call it. So, they still think about it, still feel like talking about it, etc. So they remain on the forums. On the other hand, the people who go stealth have the opposite effect. The culture, types of conversations, and whatever, get boring, because it doesn't really connect to anything that happens in the "Real world" anymore. So, eventually, they bail out of boredom or some arguement and don't feel a complusion to return.

Thus, in the long run, you have a community that has a strong built up amount of out people, but only a passing in and out group of stealthers. Which leads to the overall melting pot not really "Getting" them. Which leads to topics like this, which just serves to bring out further the sense of dissonance stealth people get, which sometimes makes them hostile and appear elitist, if they don't just leave even faster.

That would be my theory on the whole deal, anyway. If trans support sites would stop breaking into debates over the same topic over and over and focused on helping people transitioning instead, both groups would probably stick around for longer.
There is the secret stealth in this place after death as well? I must pray now.
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Steph

Quote from: Bellaon7 on November 16, 2009, 02:13:57 PM
There is the secret stealth in this place after death as well? I must pray now.

She was so stealthy that when she got to the pearly gate St Peter checked his list and said "Who the hell are you?"

:D

-={LR}=-
Enjoy life and be happy.  You won't be back.

WARNING: This body contains nudity, sexuality, and coarse language. Viewer discretion is advised. And I tend to rub folks the wrong way cause I say it as I see it...

http://www.facebook.com/switzerstephanie
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The None Blonde

Quote from: lexshue on November 16, 2009, 11:22:49 AM
In liberal young circles most women who don't have ovaries *are* trans and people do know that. Most of my social circles seem to have 1-2% of trans people, so everyone is aware that trans inviduals exist.

No ovaries -> probably trans (in certain crowds).

Maybe we are weird when we compare medicine cabinets, toys etc.

This came up with trekking two weeks and living together in a shared tent with very little privacy.
No ovaries here... follows a logicical theory trail to... uh, no ovaries. Not trans really. 'why don't you have ovaries?' 'I was born without them....' 'oh' and she and the others it came up to, assume i was born with a genetic defect, and sans that.... Hrt is fairly common here, and one of my friends did mention she knew another girl that was born without a uterus, but with ovaries as a 'ah yeah xyz'  These things happen, and It's a pretty far stretch of the imagination to believe I'm trans because of that... heck, when i DID last tell someone I was trans, they turned around and asked how long i'd felt i was male.... Your young liberal circles must be fairly.... diverse, There are no transsexuals here that I know of, nor do they move in the circles I do if they do, and I'm fairly socially active. redefine 'most' and 'are' and think logically from the pov of someone that doesnt interact with trans people what seems like a LOT in your case.
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Bellaon7

Quote from: Ladyrider on November 16, 2009, 02:55:55 PM
She was so stealthy that when she got to the pearly gate St Peter checked his list and said "Who the hell are you?"

:D

-={LR}=-
Please, I ask you nicely, do not make funny about the secret stealth.
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xsocialworker

At my age, most GG's have no ovaries and most likely on HRT, but maybe not both depending on the reason there are no ovaries. If a woman my age askes me about periods and I say I don't have them, nothing further is said because nobody my age should be having them. Getting old is kewl. At my age, you are just an older woman and nobody really looks at you that close and if you need to disclose your medical history (like before getting a new hip),nobody even seems at the least fazed.
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Alyssa M.

Quote from: The None Blonde on November 16, 2009, 03:12:53 PMYour young liberal circles must be fairly.... diverse, There are no transsexuals here that I know of, nor do they move in the circles I do if they do, and I'm fairly socially active.

Just as an example of how a not-overly-socially-active person like me in a liberal but not very diverse town might cross paths with a lot of trans people without seeking them out in any way:

I had a colleague for several years whose sister transitioned. Also, one of his best friend's sisters also transitioned a few years ago. Another friend from my department goes to a Unitarian church with a trans guy. A trans woman I'd never met, evidently an old friend of some of my friends, showed up to a barbecue I attended recently. A guy I knew as an undergrad moved to CA is now living in some intermediate gender space. My sister worked as a camp counselor for several summers with a trans guy, before he came out or began his transition. My ex-girlfriend has a good friend from high school who is transitioning, and I see him around from time to time. My ex moved away, and she has a trans friend who is most of the way through her transition.

That's just a very partial list of trans people I'm linked to with no more than two degrees of separation, based on relationships that I had before I came out. If I dug around, I could find many more. Okay, I live in an open, liberal area, but most of these examples, including myself, are here because of completely mundane work or college opportunities or because they were born here. So I don't think we're terribly unrepresentative; it's just that people are more willing to talk about it. But we're not diverse: the overwhelming majority of these people are from white middle-class suburban backgrounds.

Does that seem like a lot? I'm not sure what the denominator would be if I would try to compute a percentage.
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another.

   - Anatole France
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Bellaon7

Quote from: Julie Marie on November 16, 2009, 08:05:36 AM
Every year there are people born in America who wish they were born in France.  Some move to France early because their parents move there or they go there with a relative to live.  They learn the language and integrate successfully into the French culture and way of life.  By the time they are in their 20's no one knows they were born in America.

But there are also those Americans who, for varying reasons, don't get to move to France until later in life.  They have a hard time mastering the language and culture but they are happy they at least are now living in France.

And there are some who just have a natural gift for being French.  It's nothing they did, they were just born with it.

The French don't like Americans and don't want them living there.  So if they sense or know someone was born in America, they are immediately prejudiced against them and discriminate against them.  So all American born people know they must do their best to move about imperceptibly if they want to avoid prejudice and discrimination.

When the American born people get together they have a commonality and like to tell their stories.  The ones who came over very early don't understand the plight of the ones who came over late or what it was like living in the wrong country for so long.  The ones who came over late wish they could have come over early.  And the ones who have that natural ability to integrate just feel lucky.

For the most part they all get along until an early arriver says she doesn't feel comfortable with a late arriver because they might "out" them.  A late arriver is upset with the early arriver for not being more compassionate.  The natural understands both sides.  So little by little the American born people begin to lose their bond and the group splinters.

Julie

Do they have the secret stealth in this France. Do I have to speak this France to get the secret stealth?

Post Merge: November 16, 2009, 05:13:17 PM

Quote from: xsocialworker on November 15, 2009, 08:21:17 PM

It's not deceptive at all . Being stealth is not sneaky either. It's just that it is an impossibility for many in the trans-community for multiple reasons.
Please, tell me why some can have the secret stealth and some can not. Who makes this choice of the secret stealth?
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FairyGirl

Quote from: Julie Marie on November 16, 2009, 08:05:36 AM
Every year there are people born in America who wish they were born in France.  Some move to France early because their parents move there or they go there with a relative to live.  They learn the language and integrate successfully into the French culture and way of life.  By the time they are in their 20's no one knows they were born in America.

But there are also those Americans who, for varying reasons, don't get to move to France until later in life.  They have a hard time mastering the language and culture but they are happy they at least are now living in France.

And there are some who just have a natural gift for being French.  It's nothing they did, they were just born with it.

The French don't like Americans and don't want them living there.  So if they sense or know someone was born in America, they are immediately prejudiced against them and discriminate against them.  So all American born people know they must do their best to move about imperceptibly if they want to avoid prejudice and discrimination.

When the American born people get together they have a commonality and like to tell their stories.  The ones who came over very early don't understand the plight of the ones who came over late or what it was like living in the wrong country for so long.  The ones who came over late wish they could have come over early.  And the ones who have that natural ability to integrate just feel lucky.

For the most part they all get along until an early arriver says she doesn't feel comfortable with a late arriver because they might "out" them.  A late arriver is upset with the early arriver for not being more compassionate.  The natural understands both sides.  So little by little the American born people begin to lose their bond and the group splinters.

Julie


I just moved to Australia and avoided that whole "French/American" thing completely. No one here can even tell I'm American, but not because I'm trying to specifically hide the fact. It's more because I kinda look Australian, though I admit I'm still working on that accent a little.

I always love Julie's little analogies :laugh:
Girls rule, boys drool.
If I keep a green bough in my heart, then the singing bird will come.
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Bellaon7

Quote from: The None Blonde on November 15, 2009, 06:48:11 AM
Look, Knock it the hell off with mocking stealth. It's a choice that we make. and our right, just as much as yours to be out. So please refrain from taking the piss. It's not funny.

There would be outrage if 'stealth' defined people began to mock out people.... 'lol look at those silly people parading around being weirdos, they must love the attention...' See where im going with this?

Can't we all respect eachother's choice? It's a way of life. And our choice, and our choice alone. NOBODY has the right to tell anyone how to live, or mock the way they live.

I WRONGLY assumed that in a trans forum, that people would have copped the hell on and realised the hypocracy behind thier words.
I must make issue with you on this. I agree it is very very bad to make funny about the secret stealth and these evil people must be made to pay!
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heatherrose



Quote from: Becca on November 09, 2009, 05:45:13 PMI only know a couple others even remotely nearby though and I don't particularly like them as people,

Ummm... do you consider three hundred and sixty miles remotely nearby?
Well, do ya, do ya? :eusa_eh:


"I have always wanted to have a neighbor just like you,
I've always wanted to live in a neighborhood with you.

So let's make the most of this beautiful day,
Since we're together, we might as well say,
Would you be mine?
Could you be mine?
Won't you be my neighbor?" - Fred Rogers
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The None Blonde

Quote from: Alyssa M. on November 16, 2009, 04:21:13 PM
Just as an example of how a not-overly-socially-active person like me in a liberal but not very diverse town might cross paths with a lot of trans people without seeking them out in any way:

I had a colleague for several years whose sister transitioned. Also, one of his best friend's sisters also transitioned a few years ago. Another friend from my department goes to a Unitarian church with a trans guy. A trans woman I'd never met, evidently an old friend of some of my friends, showed up to a barbecue I attended recently. A guy I knew as an undergrad moved to CA is now living in some intermediate gender space. My sister worked as a camp counselor for several summers with a trans guy, before he came out or began his transition. My ex-girlfriend has a good friend from high school who is transitioning, and I see him around from time to time. My ex moved away, and she has a trans friend who is most of the way through her transition.

That's just a very partial list of trans people I'm linked to with no more than two degrees of separation, based on relationships that I had before I came out. If I dug around, I could find many more. Okay, I live in an open, liberal area, but most of these examples, including myself, are here because of completely mundane work or college opportunities or because they were born here. So I don't think we're terribly unrepresentative; it's just that people are more willing to talk about it. But we're not diverse: the overwhelming majority of these people are from white middle-class suburban backgrounds.

Does that seem like a lot? I'm not sure what the denominator would be if I would try to compute a percentage.
Heh, wow... thats impressive. Honestly thinking about it, I can't really think of any... One of my close friends did toy with f2m for a little while, then hit a later puberty, got a boyfriend, and became happy.... but i honestly can't really name anyone i know that 'could' be trans.... I could guess, but it would be BS really.

Bellaon: Seriously, enough with the 'secret stealth' crap, its not funny, and its begining to border on insulting. your 4chan aproach to posting in this topic is really begining to grate.... This isnt a chew toy for you, so stop taking the piss.
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Bellaon7

Quote from: The None Blonde on November 16, 2009, 07:25:04 PM
Heh, wow... thats impressive. Honestly thinking about it, I can't really think of any... One of my close friends did toy with f2m for a little while, then hit a later puberty, got a boyfriend, and became happy.... but i honestly can't really name anyone i know that 'could' be trans.... I could guess, but it would be BS really.

Bellaon: Seriously, enough with the 'secret stealth' crap, its not funny, and its begining to border on insulting. your 4chan aproach to posting in this topic is really begining to grate.... This isnt a chew toy for you, so stop taking the piss.
I do not understand, you turn back on the secret stealth? Why you say I like chew toy? I know where chew toy has been. What is this 4chan? I talk to CERN, they say no three 1/2's. I tell them they are wrong, I have heard of the three 1/2's & I tell them you go play with subatomic racetrack, and I will teach myself about the three 1/2's!   
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tekla

Like the planes that the practice was named for, stealth does not mean invisible, it just means it don't show up on radar, but anyone on the ground can look up and say "it's an airplane."  In a similar manner, just because no one calls you on it does not mean they don't know, more like they just don't care - or are bored with the entire deal.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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heatherrose



Quote from: tekla on November 16, 2009, 08:18:13 PMjust because no one calls you on it does not mean they don't know,
more like they just don't care - or are bored with the entire deal.

Truth!


"I have always wanted to have a neighbor just like you,
I've always wanted to live in a neighborhood with you.

So let's make the most of this beautiful day,
Since we're together, we might as well say,
Would you be mine?
Could you be mine?
Won't you be my neighbor?" - Fred Rogers
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The None Blonde

Or, they could just not know.... is it that unfeasable? really? There are transwomen and men, that look like thier true gender, 100% of the time. Yes, significant investigation could turn it up, but who is likely to do that short of govornment agencies?

When i leave university, I'll likely get a background check for employment... What will it show?

Tax records from part time job... female.
Degree... female,
School records... female,
Person.... female.

whats there to look up and see? And I don't mean my skirt :P
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tekla

People in real life tend to be more perceptive then those at the uni.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Julie Marie

Quote from: tekla on November 16, 2009, 08:18:13 PM
Like the planes that the practice was named for, stealth does not mean invisible, it just means it don't show up on radar, but anyone on the ground can look up and say "it's an airplane."  In a similar manner, just because no one calls you on it does not mean they don't know, more like they just don't care - or are bored with the entire deal.

And in one fell swoop our beloved Kat puts it in layman's/woman's terms.   :eusa_clap:

If the radar isn't on, isn't working or you're cloaked, they can't see you.  So you will never know.

Julie
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
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