Well said Alyssa. I'm in total agreement.
Sarah

Quote from: interalia on November 22, 2009, 11:10:05 PM
I've always been overly sensitive to it both when it is used against women and men.

I'm the same way.

Quote from: interalia on November 22, 2009, 11:10:05 PM
I've always been overly sensitive to it both when it is used against women and men.  I very much dislike expectations based upon sex, male or female.

Me too.

I don't understand what is meant by "sexism against men." I understand that in order to preserve a patriarchy, both male and female roles are restricted. But that's not sexism. Sexism is when a resume with a male name is seen as more impressive than the same resume with a female name. That goes only one way.

Really?  Try applying for an elementary school teaching position with a male name.

Sexism is bothersome and it does go both ways. Racism is bothersome also and it is prevalent among all the various races.

I've been sick and tired of all the various ism skisms for years 

having applied for several jobs lately I can say when they say they want diversity, or a few I applied for were from women run, owned operated and most 99% of the employees were women there is definitely a time when being a white guy is not to your advantage. How do I bring diversity to anything without outing myself.  One great job they wanted a women with entrepreneurial experience willing to work with women in the prison system. Interesting I was a women entrepreneur no longer though, so does my new gender take away from my pas,t no but like above do I out myself?  I think this definitely works both ways now days.
Andrew

Indeed. There are rare exceptions. It might well be harder for an equally-qualified man to attain the august and lavishly-compensated position of elementary school teacher. He'll probably have to settle for a position as principal.

Quote from: Virginia Marie on November 23, 2009, 05:35:57 PM
Sexism is bothersome and it does go both ways. Racism is bothersome also and it is prevalent among all the various races.

I've been sick and tired of all the various ism skisms for years 

Amen to that.

Affirmative action does not equal sexism.
Seeking women for jobs dealing with women's issues does not equal sexism.
Seeking diversity does not equal sexism; it corrects pre-existing sexism.

Sure, women have a somewhat easier time getting jobs with affirmative action in place than without. Still, equally qualified and productive women are overlooked compared to their male colleagues. I haven't seen this a few times; I see it all the time.

It's getting better. There is still a long way to go.

Sexism vrs TSism? Bring on the sexism if I can be left alone for being TS!

OK, Cool.  Now you're a woman.  Can I pay you 75% of what the guy sitting next to you makes and pocket the rest as my bonus?  Fine.  I'll call you anything you like.  And you wonder why women don't like you?  I'm amazed.

Quote from: tekla on November 23, 2009, 08:32:53 PM
OK, Cool.  Now you're a woman.  Can I pay you 75% of what the guy sitting next to you makes and pocket the rest as my bonus?  Fine.  I'll call you anything you like.  And you wonder why women don't like you?  I'm amazed.

I don't who if anyone you are adressing, but yes if I can start with your premise & then go from there then my answer is an unequvical yes!

So, 30 some years of women working for equal pay for equal work goes down the ->-bleeped-<-ter so you can be fem?  No wonder they don't much like you.

I suppose if the alternative is being fired for being trans and making 0%, it's at least an improvement. But I really don't like competing in the Opression Olympics.

To choose between 0 and 75% is a pimp choice.  People who are willing to settle for less, tend to get less - big surprise.  Odd deal that though, people who demand more, tend to get that too.

I think benevolent sexism bothers me more than anything because it is so devious and underhanded.

"Women are so much more pure and wonderful than we men that we must protect them and keep them in cages."

UGH!!!!

I hear that sentiment from well meaning men and I start grating my teeth.  It is worse when I hear it from women.  Call it sexism, whatever, but I hate judgments about someone based on their sex that have nothing to do with actual biological differences.

"Women can have children and men cannot."  - no problem with this statement, it is a judgment based upon biology.
"Women are more nurturing than men."  - sure studies can be shown to support this, but we have little to no biological basis, so it could very well be just a cultural condition, but I can understand sentiments like this alright without wanting to strangle anyone.
"Men are not good nurturers."  - I can feel my teeth grating.
"Women are not good providers."  - ACK!  Just because they live in a society that won't let them!??!?  UGH!

Every single candidate for Negligent Mother of the Year, as it turns out (and don't kid yourselves, the number is almost infinite) is a woman.

Quote from: interalia on November 23, 2009, 11:41:43 PM
I think benevolent sexism bothers me more than anything because it is so devious and underhanded.

"Women are so much more pure and wonderful than we men that we must protect them and keep them in cages."

UGH!!!!

I hear that sentiment from well meaning men and I start grating my teeth.  It is worse when I hear it from women.  Call it sexism, whatever, but I hate judgments about someone based on their sex that have nothing to do with actual biological differences.

"Women can have children and men cannot."  - no problem with this statement, it is a judgment based upon biology.
"Women are more nurturing than men."  - sure studies can be shown to support this, but we have little to no biological basis, so it could very well be just a cultural condition, but I can understand sentiments like this alright without wanting to strangle anyone.
"Men are not good nurturers."  - I can feel my teeth grating.
"Women are not good providers."  - ACK!  Just because they live in a society that won't let them!??!?  UGH!

I know exactly what you mean! I tend to only hear it from older people, though. Still grates on me, though, especially when they claim they're too old to learn.

Quote from: interalia on November 23, 2009, 11:41:43 PM
I think benevolent sexism bothers me more than anything because it is so devious and underhanded.

"Women are so much more pure and wonderful than we men that we must protect them and keep them in cages."

UGH!!!!

I hear that sentiment from well meaning men and I start grating my teeth.  It is worse when I hear it from women.  Call it sexism, whatever, but I hate judgments about someone based on their sex that have nothing to do with actual biological differences.

"Women can have children and men cannot."  - no problem with this statement, it is a judgment based upon biology.
"Women are more nurturing than men."  - sure studies can be shown to support this, but we have little to no biological basis, so it could very well be just a cultural condition, but I can understand sentiments like this alright without wanting to strangle anyone.
"Men are not good nurturers."  - I can feel my teeth grating.
"Women are not good providers."  - ACK!  Just because they live in a society that won't let them!??!?  UGH!

I agree 100%.