Quote from: Robin. on November 20, 2009, 05:52:15 PM
I don't mean to offend anyone by this, so plz forgive me if it does offend you...not that i think it will..but anyways its just a question that poped into my head. And I am interested in what christians think of this.

Anyways:

If one does wrong but did not know anything such as to lead them to think that wrongness in that way was possible. Then I would think they were innocent. Like a child running with scissors and hurting herself, or a baby throwing a sharp object at her mom.
If acting with such ignorance is then innocant then it would seem that informing someone of the wrongness of an action would be wrong because that then leaves them responsible if they take that action.

So I was thinking that since the Bible tells us what is wrong, by then knowing what is wrong we become culpable. So it would be better not to know. Thus better not to have the bible...

Perhaps this would even have something to do with eating of the tree of knowledge...

Yep, and back when I was in college, I didn't know it was wrong to smoke Mary Jane, so I shouldn't have been busted for it. . . .

As a matter of fact, I don't know that it's wrong now.  Ya got one?

Interesting note on the 'witch'-thing:
The hebrew didn't have a clue what a witch was. (Well; neither did the medieval christians, but hey.. Honestly, most modern pagans don't have a clue on what makes a witch a witch, so that's hardly a point of blame.)
The original word was meant: Poisoncrafter. The translation to 'witch' is of a much later date.
Basically, the Bible doesn't hold anything against witches.

As for whether or not the bible is evil:
For our modern standards, a large portion of the bible was written by a people we would consider evil. They were mostly raiders, pillagers, murderers; attacking everyone in sight. Their God was a Volcano God; a god of wrath, fire, brimstone, destruction, hatred, selfishness and conquest.
Gradually, this God became a God of love and compassion.
Judging the whole Bible under only the latter image of JHWH simply doesn't make sense. You'll see passages of awful things, where the 'unbeliever' must be destroyed, and where God is set on the destruction of all non-hebrew people. When you leaf on, you'll see pages on how God loves all peoples, including the ones that don't even believe in him/her/whuver, and conversion isn't even in the far end of the picture. Strange, strange book.
If you'd understand that this God is in fact two Gods, and the first God changed significantly into the second God, with the... 'evolution' of the religions involved, it's much easier to see where all the inconsistencies come from.
And it shows us that the Bible isn't evil. It's not good, either. But it encompasses both.

Ya'll know this is just a collection of folk tales passed down through countless generations of oral tradition, written down in an now archaic language, then badly translated several times, rewritten to suit kings and empires, and now in your local bookstore?  And that's you're basis of proof?

Quote from: tekla on November 25, 2009, 12:47:51 AM
Ya'll know this is just a collection of folk tales passed down through countless generations of oral tradition, written down in an now archaic language, then badly translated several times, rewritten to suit kings and empires, and now in your local bookstore?  And that's you're basis of proof?

I'm issentially atheist, but its fun to talk about the stuff one side or the other.

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Post Merge: November 24, 2009, 11:13:24 PM

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i believe that no material item can be good or evil but i also believe that evil exists in the world just as i think absolute good exists imo evil is an intellegent manipulating entity that excist to cause suffering pain and death. It is not a human construct and opperates independant of human activities yet is intimately tied to humans.
jessica

Quoteaccording to TORAH and NEVI'IM this is not necessarily true...

Ehm.. The part you mentioned doesn't say anything about witches. It just says something about a 'wizard' with a 'familiar spirit,' which may have just been meant to be a spirit that was, you know, familiar, instead of a pet-like familiar, who did divination and necromancy. Not really what a witch should be wasting her time on, anyway.
Besides; witches were part of a culture the hebrews had never even heard about. Because most of Europe was in between.

Transexuals were called something different in each culture and treated differently too. To say there were no Hebrews practicing the craft is probably incorrect and insulting to them. It prolly looked differently, as the trappings of their lives were different, but meh.

In some native american cultures, transsexuals were considered sacred, and often became shamen.

Becca: Witch-craft is a purely germanic tradition. To say Hebrews didn't practice Witchcraft is about as insulting as to say Eskimos didn't practice Guna Guna.
While in these times, an Eskimo could easily learn Guna Guna, it'd be rather hard for a Jew, or anyone else, for that matter, to learn Witchcraft, since it's nearly completely disappeared, being replaced by something called Wicca. (Which is absolutely not witchcraft.)
Because of an immense distance between the old germanic countries and Israël, I find it rather unbelievable that the bible would hold any grudges against witches. (That, and the fact that that quote is badly translated.)
(I apologise if I'm being overly defensive, by the way. *blushes*)

Yer not being overly defensive at all, it's an interesting discussion. Witchcraft proper might have been germanic, but what I was getting at is we see similar religious rites through most pagan cultures. I don't know enough about judaism to be sure, but wherever it came from there are bound to be vestiges of paganism in it. Casting out the wizards and all that stuff is prolly an account of disposing an opposing political force or religious system that threatened the rising patriarchy, or it could all be made up.

I was in the hospital with a guy who pulled triples for UPS. I remember when he mentioned that in group I told all the other girls in the room "oh wow, he's the best of the best" and immediately someone they thought was a scuzzy truck driver transformed into a highly trained and experienced professional right before their very eyes. People believe what they are told to believe, wizard, witch, tomato tomatoe.

He didn't correct me either, Hmm, but he sure liked telling stories and everybody listened like he was a war hero. Apparently that third trailer pretty much does whatever it wants and gets rather stessful.

The bible evil? No, The Bible is a 2000 year old tome written by sexist men who were homophobic and wanted to control those unable to think for themselves, So no the bible it's self is no evil, just the people who wrote it. Now religion on the other hand is evil, or at least those who take there religion as reality and not what it is, a story... They are the evil ones...