Did anybody's GID ever just become a part of them?  I have beem thinking lately that maybe my GID is not bothering me much in the past couple of months is because I have gotten used to feeling it for 8 years and now it has become "normal" to feel this way.  I have become desensitized to it and so somehow while still existing in me, it does not bother me.  This is what I one of my biggest hang ups are.  I sit there and basically admit I have a problem only to contradict it in the next sentence.  This is what creates my "TS fraud" mentality.  The back forth stuff really is annoying.  Some days I am will be so confident that I this is what I want and other days I can come up with proofs to deny the whole thing.  There is strong evidence to support that I am woman and that I am not at the same time. 

I have come up with so many theories I do not know which one is true.  I am surprised I have not developed a split personality.

Supporting evidence

I have given myself both a girl's first and middle name
These thoughts have been going on for over half a decade
I tried developing a female voice
I cried a tiny bit when I told someone I like crossdressing and they said that I could never be a girl and that there was not a thing feminine about me
The girls I sort of hang out with at school are similar to me in some way be it personality wise or same hair color or height.  I tend to draw things towards me instead of being the one to go to something else.  It's kind of like I live a female through these other people or something.  It is rather hard to explain.  Sometimes I get a tinge of jealousy when looking at some other girls. 
If this was all a lie, wouldn't my brain have given up on it by now? 

Counter Evidence
I never had issues like this until after puberty hit
I was only a crossdresser when the feelings first started and I was once happy with it.  Since gender is a core part of you and TSism developed, this must mean I created in my head somehow.  These feelings were not always there, so there must be another cause for them
I am manly and I know it, so why do I desire to be a girl since I am not acting the part.
Since I am uncertain about myself, it must the case that my anguish is caused by my own doing and that somehow I can get back to "normal."

As you can purely see the evidence is pretty evenly stacked.

I don't know how to explain any of this crap to a therapist.  The feelings will rise up hard again, they always do. 

Sorry for the tenth billion topic of the same exact thing already in other posts.

For the longest time I though that it was gone.  Had a job, a woman who loved me,  Her three kids who called me "Dad".  And life was good.  But looking back I made some major mistakes and it was all from my GID.  I called it the "Demon" because it was ruining my life. 

I tried to exorcise the "Demon", but it wasn't something that was from the devil.  It was from God and he/she never would remove it, till I gave in the the power.  And now I am becoming whole.



Janet

Yes, I was desensitized for a long time. I liken it to stages of grief or tragedy. After awhile, you just become numb to it but it's always present. After puberty, I became so accustomed to the misery I hardly noticed throughout the rest of my teens.

Supporting evidence

I have given myself both a girl's first and middle name.
Names are important, I think they are part of our identities.
These thoughts have been going on for over half a decade
Yup, persistant an't it. I don't know anyone that has ever shaken it. Does not mean it can't be done, it is just very unlikely. For most it does seem to wax and wane. GID is not a constant thing. Sometimes it will seem to vanish only to come back when you are stressed.
I tried developing a female voice
How did that go?
I cried a tiny bit when I told someone I like crossdressing and they said that I could never be a girl and that there was not a thing feminine about me
That is a good indicator. I think you know what you want, but you have internal barriers that keep getting in the way.
The girls I sort of hang out with at school are similar to me in some way be it personality wise or same hair color or height.  I tend to draw things towards me instead of being the one to go to something else.  It's kind of like I live a female through these other people or something.  It is rather hard to explain.  Sometimes I get a tinge of jealousy when looking at some other girls. 
If you were a girl, and you looked like a boy, you would be jelouse fer sure.
If this was all a lie, wouldn't my brain have given up on it by now?
One thing to think about it, how many people are there that have these persistant feelings and are not transgendered in some way? I would think none. Some people find temporary escape, but it always comes back to bite you.

Counter Evidence
I never had issues like this until after puberty hit
This is pretty common. I would not see it as an against.
I was only a crossdresser when the feelings first started and I was once happy with it.  
You felt your were a crossdresser. But you probably did not know the whole story then and probably still don't. Inititlly simply dressing can help make you feel so much better it feels like the solution. But for some of us crossdressing in the long run it is not enough, it does not feel like you are being fully authentic to yourself. I was the same, I had thought I was a 'crossdresser' at one stage. It is like silver is really cool untill you realise there is gold out there.
Since gender is a core part of you and TSism developed, this must mean I created in my head somehow.  These feelings were not always there, so there must be another cause for them
What causes TSism? I don't think anyone really knows. It could be created in our heads. Does this make it any less meaningful? There is a suggestion in this that you can 'cure it'. I don't think anyone has been able to do that. Lots of people have these feelings emerge later in life. I think if you examined your past you might find evidence that it was actually always there. Either way there are times when you won't feel it and it makes you doubt everything.
I am manly and I know it, so why do I desire to be a girl since I am not acting the part.
What makes a girl? I know some women who could out 'man' anyone I know. They are still women. How you act is not what makes you. If you are a girl you actually don't need to do anything to be that girl. But once you stablise your core self everything else will follow me thinks. I'm not surprised that you are manly. People that are raised as boys often are.
Since I am uncertain about myself, it must the case that my anguish is caused by my own doing and that somehow I can get back to "normal."
It is perfectly natural to feel uncertain. You have no strong role models for being TG. There are all these messages we get from society that says what we are feeling is wrong of bad or unnatural. We are bound to internalise at least some of these messages. Self exploration will help, it just takes time. Sometimes you will think you have it only to find you need to rethink things. I think this is perfectly natural.


Now the concrete thing is this - you suffer from GID. Are you a girl? Tough question. But what I think you do know is what you would like if you had absolute freedom. I think that is a good place to start thinking about it. If you hear a voice that says "this can't be" - you got to ask it why?

I have examined the earlier parts of my life and that is what makes my feelings weird.  My feelings are inconsistent.  For everything one of the proofs there is an equal contradiction to it.  That cry I mentioned was not really anything.  I went into the bathroom and kind of shed 2 tears for 10 seconds as that was it.  I was not all frustrated and did not say things like "I AM A GIRL" then storm off to cry somewhere.  I probably overexaggerate everything and that could be my problem.  I do want to be a girl, but isn't that just another thing for the counter evidence.  TS people "are" girls and do not "want" to be girls.  So if I "want" to be a girl, that is different from actually "being" a girl.  I am not doing this for some false perception or at least I don't think I am, but the counter evidence does have a point. 

Maybe you need to throw out this idea of evidence and proof, cause I don't think you will find any and I don't think it is helping. I think it is better to work out what you want. You want to be a girl. Build on that. Maybe you could ignore the question about your gender for now and focus on what you want - it could be you want to live as a girl, get body changes, be socially viewed as a girl, be free to behave as a girl, date as a girl, shop as a girl, get hormones, grow breasts. None of this actually requires you to be sure about your gender. You don't even need to define yourself as transexual.

All the evidence is telling you at the moment is you are not happy living as you are. The evidence is telling you that you have gender issues. Sometimes the feeling is stronger than other times, this is really normal for transgender people and just indicates that you still have a lot of sorting out to do.

Keep exploring, keep testing the waters, keep trying stuff out. Things will become clearer in time. Take baby steps. If it feels right keep doing it. If it feels wrong take a break.

Best of luck Lauren!

QuoteI'm not surprised that you are manly. People that are raised as boys often are.

Nicky makes a really good point here. As transpeople, we often cite masculine or feminine behavior as 'evidence' of our maleness/femaleness. But some cisgirls who were raised mostly around men and encouraged to be tomboys often exhibit masculinity too. And would we really expect a cisgirl who had been raised as a boy for some reason to be much different? Behavior is a blend of nature and nurture. We're not exempt from nurture's effects just because we're trans.

Wow! This is almost exactly what happens to me! I thought all my GID problems were completely buried and that my 'manly' activities negated any of my female tendencies. It's sad really, because looking back, my parents were worried about me when I was in my late teens. They said I had a lack of friends and self esteem. Maybe, just maybe they saw another problem but didn't tell me: after all things were very different then. They got me involved in motor racing of all things! Part of my charade was to let dad think I shared an interest in cars and racing. The truth be known, I was more interested in the looks of the cars than anything else. Oh well, I went along with it and ended up enjoying it immensely. I then became a motor mechanic: once again to be really manly! I hated that whole thing to death. Not that I wasn't interested in the mechanical side of things but because my charade had to go into overdrive! It was exhausting and emotionally draining.
This sort of pattern carried on, but I could never work out why I was never contented. I always felt like a lost soul. To get back to the point, my GID was always there but buried under a cloud of "acting". I very secretively cross-dressed, but felt so guilty afterwards. I think because I repressed my gender identity for so long, it goes some way to explain why it has suddenly exploded forth. Luckily for me I'm a bit of a Peter Pan and people constantly think I'm 10 to 15 years younger than I am. I've never had a very male physique other than the fact I'm 6'2". My GID has been completely re-sensitized lately,and after all I just want to be happy.

If it were only that simple.  I wish I could just do all of that but I need to prove it so the doubts do not return anymore.  I met another TS on youtube that has said similar things to nikki.  I just don't want to get things wrong and come out, then have to retract it.  I don't want a therapist to say "WTF YOU ARE A MAN, YOU COULD NEVER BE A WOMAN" or something, not that they would do that.  If I end up not having an issue but still have these feelings, then I will have nowhere to turn.  I appreciate the help even though I know I am being difficult.  I don't want to make it so hard. 

I just want to be certain.  It is annoying to be at the same spot you have been at since 03/04

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Post Merge: November 29, 2009, 10:35:38 PM

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That is the thing though.  You know who you are because you were "acting".  I am saying I don't have that problem but somehow I have these GID thoughts even though nothing is technically wrong.  I tried being genderless but that did not work though.  The next question will be "If you are fine then what is your problem?"  That is the whole thing.  I am just insane.  I am fine but I'm not.  Maybe I am psychosomatic.  I only think I have a problem when I don't.  Everytime I try to explain this, it never comes out correctly.  Even if I can never be helped, maybe I can assist other TG people who really need it.  I don't know why these feelings are in me or why they developed over time.  Sometimes I just want to be completely destroyed because I am insecure about everything and not just this TG stuff either.  I am always questioning myself about everything to this degree all the time.  I never used to be that way and this also develped after the TG feelings were created. 

Quote from: lauren3332 on November 29, 2009, 10:18:11 PM
If it were only that simple.  I wish I could just do all of that but I need to prove it so the doubts do not return anymore.  I met another TS on youtube that has said similar things to nikki.  I just don't want to get things wrong and come out, then have to retract it.  I don't want a therapist to say "WTF YOU ARE A MAN, YOU COULD NEVER BE A WOMAN" or something, not that they would do that.  If I end up not having an issue but still have these feelings, then I will have nowhere to turn.  I appreciate the help even though I know I am being difficult.  I don't want to make it so hard. 

I just want to be certain.  It is annoying to be at the same spot you have been at since 03/04

You're right about the therapist thing: (A good) therapist should never say that to you. Their role is to guide, not lead.

Concerning the proof bit, though, hon you may never find "proof," depending on what exactly you're looking for and for who. I'll say, though, you'll never know what direction is right until you take a step. It doesn't have to be a big one. But you know that: you've already shown you've already taken a few.  One of the best pieces of advice I've received is to "keep doing what feels good or right until it doesn't."

If you can do that honestly, you'll never make a mistake and should never have any regrets.

EDIT:

Quote from: lauren3332 on November 29, 2009, 10:18:11 PM
Everytime I try to explain this, it never comes out correctly.

For what it's worth, every post of yours I've read in which you've tried to "explain this" has made perfect sense to me. 

I like your Mega Man 2 Boss Introduction avatar. 

Quote from: lauren3332 on November 29, 2009, 11:10:09 PM
I like your Mega Man 2 Boss Introduction avatar.

Thank you. I have a lot of vacation coming up next month. I might get around to doing some more spriting then.

You have to make one that moves and put the song with it. 

I think a lot of people who struggle with GID struggle also whether or not they are "real."  This is mostly because of the polarity that seems to exist in the trans community - especially among those who like to paint everything black and white.  Seems that the prevailing idea is, you are either a woman (thus your GID shows that you are REAL) or a man (thus your GID must be the result of fetichistic crossdressing).  I realize I made those two sides very extreme for the purpose of my example, but I'm sure you understand my point.

The reality is, if you struggle with GID that says nothing to your inner core/sex.  A common slope I see is:

1) I feel I should be (am) the other sex and most people do not feel the way I do
2) Because most other people don't feel this way, there must be something different about me
3) The different thing about me is that I must have GID
4) If I have GID that means I am a transsexual
5) If I am transsexual, that means I must actually be the other sex
6) If I am the other sex, I must seek transition.

Well, it isn't so cut and dried.  Points 4 and 5 are a bit of a leap, though it is hard to tell based on reading the posts of many transsexuals.  GID doesn't necessarily make you a woman or a man - it just is a condition.  A person can struggle with all the things you struggle with and not necessarily be the "woman trapped in a man's body" etc.  The push to be recognized as "legit" or "as really a woman" in your case might be related to fear of the alternative - that somehow you are a crossdresser that brought upon yourself these intense feelings.  Regardless of the origin, these feelings still have to be dealt with or they can consume you.

Dealing with the feelings means exploring them, normally under a therapist or other professional's supervision to determine how deep they go, how manageable they are, and what you should do as a long term solution.

I would definitely break out of the "am I legit" cycle and accept that you, to some degree or another, suffer from GID.  Now tackle the issue of how to deal with it.

BTW, be careful of logic like this:

Quote from: lauren3332 on November 29, 2009, 05:49:26 PM
Supporting evidence

I have given myself both a girl's first and middle name
...
I tried developing a female voice
...

Most likely you first felt you might be a girl, then did these things, and now are using them as evidence you might be a girl.

Perhaps an oversimplified version of the same would be:
I think I like trying new foods.  I am trying new foods.  Look I tried new foods, I must like doing it!

Quote from: lauren3332 on November 29, 2009, 05:49:26 PM
If this was all a lie, wouldn't my brain have given up on it by now? 

Brains lie... a lot.  Cognitive dissonance is an example of a lying brain.  So are hallucinations and schemas (to some extent).  I'm not saying YOUR brain is lying to you, but don't close off the possibility.

Quote from: Nero on November 29, 2009, 06:17:18 PM
Yes, I was desensitized for a long time. I liken it to stages of grief or tragedy. After awhile, you just become numb to it but it's always present. After puberty, I became so accustomed to the misery I hardly noticed throughout the rest of my teens.

So true... I find myself cycling thru these stages on almost a weekly basis. Now my mindset is off transition, its buried beneath again, but I now feel more comfortable to express my masculine traits as a female... with frequent but more mild GID flareups....

Hmmm..interalia, really I believe GID comes down to innate gendered behavior. It is very biologically based. Even animals show it, GID is just the extreme of typical cross-sex behavior. A person can be a delusional paranoid schizophrenic and still be transgendered after all.

Really to the OP don't try looking for the cause or reasons why or why not you're transgendered.. You'll never find the 'truth'. Just try to find a way to deal with it.

Quote from: northy on November 30, 2009, 12:12:48 AM
Hmmm..interalia, really I believe GID comes down to innate gendered behavior. It is very biologically based. Even animals show it, GID is just the extreme of typical cross-sex behavior. A person can be a delusional paranoid schizophrenic and still be transgendered after all.

Perhaps, northy, but you don't have to look far to see a MTF TS who displays no such cross-sex behavior save a burning notion that they are in fact women.  I think those individuals are as likely to have GID as the boy who has displayed feminine interests and behaviors since the womb and claims the same.

that de-transition blog is brilliant...it says exactly what I think.
http://gdinteralia.blogspot.com...

those 'transsexuals' going to the restaurant were not TS but what CD/TV/Effem Homosexual?
At electrolysists today my usual girl was telling me that yesterday she had to do a guy, very male, no female dress/maekupo/accessories at all who is getting a vagina but has no intention of living female at all but wants to stay with wife...

I believe GID comes down to innate gendered behavior

Outside of the biological implications following hetrosexual intercourse in which only one of the partners has the possibility of getting preggers, I don't think that most of the 'behaviors' that people see as gendered are more social constructions than genetic ones.  Mechanics was seen as some sort of god-ordained male province, and it's very possible that more men have good mechanical/spacial abilities then women do, but once the door opened up it turned out that there were in fact many woman who were most excellent at it.

One of the funniest scenes in the movie they made where Merle Streep plays Julia Child is watching her try to talk her way into these big French cooking schools because women were just not cut out to be chiefs.

Many women, lots of them feminists, talk that talk about how woman are more nurturing and if placed in positions of power, like head of a nation would govern more peacefully then the men had.  Most of the women who did exactly that went to work on proving them wrong as their first acts in office.  And we know that many men have proved to be incredible parents and there seems no shortage of candidates for Negligent Mother of the Year.

I think its very dangerous to 'reverse engineer' behaviors into being.

Just because you like to do A, or at good at B, does not determine who or what you are.  It only shapes the number of things you can and can't do.

Its not so much about men and woman as it is about human potential.  Given the opportunity to learn and the ability to practice it turns out that most stuff once considered 'gendered' was a mere social invention.

My biggest problem is that I focus on the consequences too much.  Even though I did not feel I was a different gender at a young age, I did feel different from other people.  My TG issues arose out of my own self without any influence from anybody else.  I guess I feel the need to have proof in order so that others believe I am Lauren.  Being transgender hurts but it also is rather eye opening.  Before I realized I had issues I would have never talked to or hung out with somone of our nature and I am glad that I have grown through this experience.  Sometimes I wish I would get caught because then it would finally be out in the open.  Thank you for all your help and I am sorry for being both hard and difficult.