There are quite a few people here with zero libido.
Even after orchiectomy/SRS and cessation of anti-androgens the testosterone level may not rebound to female levels (20-80 ng/dL).
In such cases (as with natal females with a low libido), supplemental testosterone may be indicated.

I agree with you demoiselle, but I think I'll talk to the endo first. He might have some other ideas (like maybe inceasing my finasteride). I tried to get an appointment earlier but he is really busy and it was not considered urgent. I'm going to have to wait till Jan, feb next year. I think the reduced spiro thing would suit me well too. My goal is really to have some feminisation, I'm not a Mtf that wants the whole shebang.

Alyssa - I was not on E as that would affect my fertility too much. But after I have another kid that could be a possibility. I never got another blood test. I was only on sprio for about 3 weeks, though had the forms to get another blood test about a month after I started.

I think the combination of finasteride and SSRIs and Spiro all at once has got to be hard on the old libido. So I think talking to the endo about it first is a good idea before I start playing about with hormones.

Thanks! I like my picture too. It's not how I thought I looked.

I think your wise to get this sorted out by the endo. After last week when you were so tired, and and now with your meds, I'm sure all your need is a little Adjustment and all will be well.

Jamie

P.S. Hot looking avatar photo ! You look Great !

I agree with Alyssa M.  Or at least, that's more like my experiences.  I was okay on the Spiro for a couple months and then earlier this year my sex drive just totally collapsed. 
The E helped me out a little, but I find that it's mostly psychological. 

I talked to my wife about what I liked, and what she liked, and we've experimented a bit, and that has actually helped a lot.  The thing I noticed is that the need isn't present like it used to be for me, where i couldn't think of anything else.  It's more like a subconscious thing, and is easily triggered by something like a text message that says "I want you tonight".  Seeing a movie or a show on TV, I can get feelings like *I want to be kissed like that* and that makes me start looking at my wife in a completely different way. 

Everyone reacts differently to hrt, and I guess my point in posting is to say that I think the drop in libido would be normal and would probably require some adjustment even in the best of cases. 

You know, I think your probably right Jessica. Perhaps I did not give it a chance. In some ways maybe I was unprepared for the changes and panicked a bit. I was not in a good frame of mind. My biggest fear was to do with how it would affect my relationship with my wife, after 10 years of penetrative sex and being in a good place together having a spanner in the works was rather scary.

Quote from: Nicky on December 01, 2009, 05:03:20 PM
You know, I think your probably right Jessica. Perhaps I did not give it a chance. In some ways maybe I was unprepared for the changes and panicked a bit. I was not in a good frame of mind. My biggest fear was to do with how it would affect my relationship with my wife, after 10 years of penetrative sex and being in a good place together having a spanner in the works was rather scary.

----caveat: this is a bit of a TMI post, so apologies for anyone that finds this and is offended.  It's not my intent, just sort of an explanation of how HRT affected my sex life and how I dealt with it.  Also, apologies in advance for dropping my experiences as an MtF in the Androgyne section. 

So here goes:

gods yes.  I was terrified when the libido collapse happened to me.  Combine that with the erectile dysfunction and it was sort of a recipe for disaster.  my wife and I weren't in the best of places when I started HRT, so we started going through this just as things started getting better.  It was a little frustrating several months ago. 

I was somewhat lucky during this phase-- my wife has historically had a fairly low sex drive, so my lack of interest didn't bother her very much.  I've always liked sex, even as a guy, so I would usually want it more than she did, but my wife considered it not so big a deal. 

As things started to balance out, and some of my libido came back, my wife still wasn't always interested, so I had to make do on my own.  In the interest of trying to figure out what sex was like with my "new" body*, I started experimenting: vibrators, masturbating, etc.  I find that in order to really get turned on, I have to be engaged in it, and so does my wife.  I have also found that almost every nerve ending just comes alive.  My breasts are a huge erogenous zone, whereas I was pretty uncomfortable being touched when I was still a guy.  Now being touched sends these little shockwaves of sensation through my body. 

So, we've tried some things.  I bought a lesbian sex book.  For positions that would require a strap-on, we save those for the nights when "it" decides it still wants to work.  Which is surprisingly frequent.  If we're both pretty into it, I can still get it up.  Maybe not much more than twice a week, but I've heard from my therapist that that's a pretty rare experience, so I'm convinced that it's a very psychological thing. 

In the interest of trying other things, there's a lot more oral sex, grinding, touching, etc.  We try things, some of which work, some don't, some end up with one or the other of us crying.  We talk, try to be open about how we're feeling, and sometimes it's just frustration over how my body just pisses me off sometimes. 

My wife has told me that she's started enjoying the sex a lot more, and she wants it more frequently.  I like to think that some of it has to do with me feeling much more comfortable with myself overall.  I think I'm a lot more confident, seductive and open.  I make a point of saying things that I might have been mortified to say a year or two ago, and I make a point of telling her what I want.  It can get uncomfortable sometimes, but I try to remember that it's not her job to guess at what I want.  So I help her. 

I like to be touched like a girl.  Open palm, rock it back and forth over the pubis, that kind of thing.  It's how I used to masturbate when I was younger, and I had recently read a book where the author made a point of saying that's how she used to masturbate.  She claimed it was a very "female" way of touching oneself, by which she meant that most young girls start out that way, which I had never known, and have no idea whether it's true or not.  But it reminded me of what I used to do and put me in the frame of mind of trying new things. 

When I mentioned this to my wife, she gave it a try, and OMG, it was amazing.  I made a point of telling her so.  Overall, I have found that the sex is a lot better for me (and I wasn't complaining about it before) but I think that makes me a lot more passionate and interesting in bed, and I think that in turn has had an overall positive effect on my wife's sex drive and on our relationship in general. 

But I'm not trying to convince you to go back on hormones or anything like that.  Everyone reacts differently, and that's how I reacted.  Short of going off hrt altogether, I don't think I'd ever completely recover my sex drive, but I'm okay with the way it's changed.  I think if you're comfortable with where you are, and you're happy with your sex drive then that's the important thing.  The goal shouldn't be to look a certain way, or behave a certain way.  The goal is to be happy with yourself.  If you're happy as you are, then no worries.  If you decide that you want to go back on hrt all the way, then maybe some of our collective experiences will help you work through some of the tricky stuff. 

BTW, your new pic is hawt.  Looking good. 


--------------
*I'm not trying to be weird, just that being on hormones has completely changed the experience of sex for me and I'm not really sure how else to put it.  I can put on a somewhat revealing dress and with the right push up bra, I've actually got cleavage.  I make a point of wondering sometimes whether these actually belong to me.   

You are pretty darn fetching yourself my dear 

Thank you for sharing Jessica, I really appreciate it. I feel much better about the whole thing, a lot better. It was really helpful hearing that you were terrified too and that you worked things out.

I'm thinking now that I was/am not in the best place to cope with the changes. I was on a low just before I started and am still rollercoasting a bit. These things might just take more energy than I have to spare at the moment. I am setting up an appointment with my counsellor next week and hopefully will make some progress.

Quote from: Nicky on November 25, 2009, 04:58:27 PM
Maybe, I think there was talk about them in the hair removal formums, I'll have a look. I think a lot of them say don't use them on your face.

I saw one review that said that you can get IPL ones and laser ones. One reviewer said it took 15 minutes to do a whole leg with one machine and 40 minutes with the other. That actually does not sound too bad, and hairs fell out - like 30-70% reduction on one pass. No word on long term effectivelness though.

Have a read of the following:
http://hairremoval.about.com/od/lase1/a/home-laserhair.htm

I think the strongest home laser you can get is the Tria Beauty. I have one at home and use it every month or so on my facial hair. It is slow going but is definitely removing my darker hairs.

A very common machine in my country is the Rio laser. I'm currently bidding on several on trademe (I think trademe is a bit like ebay). Hoping to get one for about $100 NZ. As it is coming up to xmas lots of people are desperate to sell things and just this last week a whole bunch have turned up for sale with 1$ reserve, some of them new too. 

Hi,

I've been really busy so I didn't get to read all the posts in detail but I did a general skim, and I think I have experienced some of the same stuff you were describing. When you were talking about the spiro and anti-depressants, I didn't find it, but did you have the effect of being more and more tired and out of it and such? Like I know for me it sucked the life outta me (plus I had a general thing for depression anyway :/). Lack of libido did scare me a little too, as in some ways I did enjoy those feelings, and still do. I'm definitely something different from all gender anyway, so I'm just....me. I'm weird, but yeah, I am in that same limbo about whether to just stay as I am or transition too.

Quote from: Nicky on December 02, 2009, 08:04:07 PM

I'm thinking now that I was/am not in the best place to cope with the changes.

Honestly, I think the fact that you know that about yourself is probably the most important thing.  For all the anecdata that you get-- "this was my experience" or "I had something totally different happen to me" it's important to know that everyone's going to react differently and being able to cope with it (or realizing that you're not in a place to)  is what separates out successful transitions from unsuccessful ones.  I mean, anyone can pop some pills or get a shot.  Being able to handle what happens after (and make sense of it) is the important part.

Thank you, Jessica, anecdata is one of the cleverst portmanteaux I have come across in quite a while. I'm going to have to remember that.

Oh, yeah, and the whole "dealing with it" thing ... that sounds like an awesome idea. I might have to give it a try one of these days ...

Nicky, do not do laser before HRT. My endo told me he chastizes laser places periodically for not recommending trans patients to be on HRT for a year or two first before body laser hair removal.

You will have suboptimal results. If you are going to do parts of your body, the chest and underarms are some of the best ones to do, but my legs... took a hell of a lot of laser for poor results before I finally got on HRT. Of course, face doesn't apply here. Mixing electro and laser will get beard removal done faster.

Spiro without E makes you feel really ->-bleeped-<-ty. You also develop bone loss eventually and aches and pains from that. You need one fuel or the other. And mixing antidepressants with hrt is going to mess all sorts of stuff up.

Also on full HRT I can still get an erection and have sex, so far. My T was only 37, while on progesterone (which can raise T.) I definitely have different outlooks towards sex and all, but if I'm attached to a person emotionally or drunk I don't have a problem.

*cough*

Caveat: I wasn't sure I would transition, and laser made holding out much easier for me. If you decide you really won't transition, then the laser will make you feel much more feminine. But if you're this close to trying real HRT, then I'd wait other than the sweet spots.

Quote from: Alyssa M. on December 03, 2009, 10:07:23 PM
Oh, yeah, and the whole "dealing with it" thing ... that sounds like an awesome idea. I might have to give it a try one of these days ...

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not exactly an expert at it, either.  Since I'm already doing the TMI thing on this thread, I'll say it-- I'm a cutter*.  That's definitely not a healthy way of dealing with anything.  Over the last several months I've realized that you can try and be prepared for something but that doesn't always mean that you really are. 

I wasn't trying to disparage anyone that has trouble handling stress, just saying that I think Nicky is in a particularly good place, especially if zie's figuring out what zie can and can't handle.  From my own experiences, especially as a cutter, that's really important. 

-----------------
*I see a therapist (another therapist, not my gender therapist) for this.  And he's great.  So don't worry.  Just in case you were. 

Quote from: Nicky on November 23, 2009, 01:55:50 PMHormone therapy always seemed liked the holy grail.

Lack of hormones is my holy grail. Hormones did not agree with me. I love menopause. I love who I'm becoming as my hormones subside and so does my partner.

Jessica, no problem. I just wanted to make it clear that I'm definitely not someone people should look up to as a paragon of composure and effective living. I'm just a mess in general (transition notwithstanding) especially in that I am a creature of habit, and I don't deal well with transitions in general. Which is, you know, kind of inconvenient for me right now.

And my heart goes out to you. I'm not a cutter, but of course I know plenty of people who are or were, and I have had some pretty intense discussion with people telling me about their struggles with cutting.

Thanks to Jessica L for that wonderfully detailed account of your sex life.  Its really fascinating to me that there are as many sexual forms as there are people, and even more when we're talking couples--and all evolving, separate from but closely intertwined with the permutations of gender, as the folks on this site know, better than most it would seem

I think this has been a really good discussion. Thank you all!

I've actually decided to go back on my hormones again. This weekend I came out of my depression and could think much clearer. The reasons I wanted hormones in the first place have not gone away, and I think I am better able to cope with the changes mentally now.

I'll see how it goes anyway. I have an endo appointment early next year, I can revise things then if I need to, but I think I need to give things a chance. I trust the endo to know what they are doing, I'm sure they won't let me get osteoperosis and if I am feeling crap or struggle to 'get it up' I think they will be able to help. But first I need to see how things pan out, see how I adjust to the changes in sexual response. I don't think I will be on just spiro forever. This is just untill we have another kid and then will have a review.

As a 'man' sexual arrousal was always a given. Didn't matter if I was really sick, or tired or not in the mood. All it takes is for my partner to sidle up and I'm ready to go. But when I think about my wifes sexual response it is quite different. I suspect I will end up being more like her. I just need to adjust to that.

I've only had laser on my face. I started out building slowly to being comfortable with myself when I really did not know what would be required, this was a step in the process. I'm glad I got rid of the facial hair (though sill have some electro to go, looking back at my old photos it is just like ich... I can't imagine dealing with that hair again.  I have some in my blog if you want to take a look. After the laser and the change in presentation and coming out, I still need more. I want to get rid of the dull ache and longing I have about my body, hormones are the next step for me.

Nicky-- good for you!  I wish you the best of luck. 

@demoiselle65:
no worries.  If I can't share the info with someone who might benefit, what's the point?  Sometimes all you need is just an idea: "Hey, I hadn't thought of that before!"

@Alyssa M.:
I understand completely.  And thanks.