Quote from: Arch on November 27, 2009, 02:54:05 PMThat happens to a friend of mine. I don't get it; people must think he's a very hairy lesbian. It must be maddening, but some people just take longer to masculinize than others.

But the ma'am thing, instead of miss, is a bit of a mystery to me.

I think it may largely be because this is a small town, I'm from around here, and so people are just used to seeing me.  Obviously only people who are or were at one time my friends are comfortable asking me questions like "where did the tits go?" or "what's with the stuff on the face?" (which is so rarely asked of me that I had to think of how it would be worded), so everybody else just assumes "business as usual", it seems.

As I said, my weekend in Philadelphia was fine -- only time I got a feminine honorific there was caught by the person saying it before he was even done saying it, and then quickly followed by "sorry man, just saw the red hair and was reminded of my sister".  I wound up telling one person, who I assumed could tell I was TS, and he actually seemed kind of surprised -- but then again, this was Philadelphia, he's an old punk, and he's friends with The Dead Milkmen, who are all kind of short, so he may have very well just figured "oh, another short ->-bleeped-<-gy punk guy".

When I'm having a bad day it really helps to cheer me up when I hear it. Still not to the "not surprised" point yet, but about half the time I don't think much of it. I hadn't heard sir in probably a year and then this guy said it about a month ago and I couldn't believe it, and wondered why for a bit.

of course it's not just "ma'am" either

As i was leaving the supermarket today, a man ask his son to step back and "let the lady by"



the other day I was in an office and one of the workers ask me "ma'am what car are you driving?" (apparently someone was mis-parked) and before I could answer the maitenince guy who'd seen me pull in said "she's driving that gold one" - SHE!!!!

there are so many variations on the theme....

Still waiting for that flirting thing Kate was talking about in the other thread though...

I donno about any of you, but I have a HARD time not having a giddy grin spread across my face every time I get correctly honorific'd. And nothing quite makes my day like the double affirmation, i.e. more than one person in a group identifies me correctly out loud(a couple did this today to me at work).

It still feels weird when people who called me "she" so long all of a sudden switch...I can't wait to no longer be used to being called "she".

A year maybe. I'm used to it by now.  I'd be more surprised & devastated if people called me "sir".

The day I properly transitioned I was unrealistic enough to expect to be called Miss by everyone from then on. I was very young, probably too young to understand that it might not happen, but strangely enough it mostly did.

These day's after so long I have reached the point where I honestly no longer notice or care what pronouns people use. I'll answer to anything as along as it isn't rude! I think the fact that I was mostly allowed to grow up in my preferred gender and only really lived as a "male" for a few years as a form of (failed) reparative therapy probably makes me less sensitive to this issue.

I made myself mad just now...boy working at the supermarket passes by me and says "Hi Mr. G____" and reflexively i said "Hi"

i.e. I acknowledged he was talking to me.

I've been pretty good about not doing that so far but I still got aggravated that I forgot.

It happens.  They see us, recognize us and the reflex is to call us by that name they have know us for a long time.

He will one day call you, "Miss G____".  Don't beat yourself up.  It takes time, Hon.



Janet

I know what you mean, Laura.  A few days ago I responded without thinking when someone called me by my old name.  I beat myself up for a while until my usual "aw, screw it" attitude returned.

- Kate

Quote from: Arch on November 27, 2009, 02:54:05 PM

But the ma'am thing, instead of miss, is a bit of a mystery to me.

I've passed a great deal on days even letting the whiskers grow out for some time. People don't always look. Different people have different levels of criticism and scrutiny. People who know someone with PCOS wouldn't bat an eye at a trans person with facial hair and feminine features.

The worst thing are the people who you only know by proxy - restaurants, school, business relations, etc. They see you often enough to mentally adjust to the changes. There's one guy in the food court who calls me by the name on my credit card and I cringe. He's providing great customer service but it makes me want to die. Another restaurant that I go to is staffed by one guy who's been there as long as I have worked here and he knows I'm a guy... I think. But most of the rest call me her... or are very confused mexicans.

I just saw a friend that I hadn't seen since august and, well, she was mostly amazed by my breasts. But she said my face was a little different too. I took her to a lesbian club to go dancing and I got quite a few smiles from the ladies in the crowd. I did as much people watching as I could exhausted, tipsy, and dancing, but looking at the faces of the ladies there, it's really no question that a lot of us who don't think we're passing pass. And I'm sure at times they have to go "Excuse me?" when someone refers to them as sir.

I just had to prevent myself from *hugging* a staunch straight friend goodbye on aim - he has no real idea about what's going on because he never sees me. I'm finding myself 'pulling my punches' regarding my personality sometimes, on things that I want to say to coworkers... but for the most part I express exactly what I feel. I took quite a bit of pride the other day when a male coworker surrendered to me and told me that I argue like a woman. I half giggled and said "Yeah kinda."

I'd say I'm not surprised at all anymore - but there are times when I don't expect to pass at all where I do. Opened a stock account with my mother - handed him my male driver's license and he goes "This is mother-daughter right?" after entering my full legal name. Mom being clinically insane made it so  awkward since she wanted to play it along but kept slipping in 'he' here and there and then making a big show of showing she was referring to the broker... oi.

I accidentally called a large black man "ma'am" when he asked where the restroom was today, just because the last 4 people who asked were female.

Womens clothes over 2.5 years, 9 months on spiro, 3 months on E, being called "ma'am" off and on for 23 years.

I got a mam once at the grocery store.... the bagger person must have been on drugs 

I liked it though, and I was far from trying to pass.

I wouldn't expect anything else really.  If they called me sir I would be very shocked.  But it's cute when I'm with my girlfriends and someone is like "ladies" and we just beam and giggle LOL oh my I'm silly

hehe you're all so inspirational. ive loved reading all these posts

i longg for th day that someone says "let the lady pass" and stuff like that!

i get it ALL the time no fail on the phone... cuz i talk really sweet thats why

surprised? it was more like a constant source of embarassment and joke everytime i was out with my schoolmates or friends at that time 

so ya guess i never went through the 'surprise' stage...not to mention any element of pleasant feelings from this mdm/sir thingy...

why are human languages so obsessed with gendering?

From my early teens onward I was the source of considerable confusion - some "miss", some "master" and some didn't know which. It was a relief to transition and simply get "miss" and now, many years later "ma'am". I never thought about it back then.

I agree, many things are very easy to take for granted.

So strange at times. The new job I am just m,e a male employee, only refered to as male, sir, he handsome. There have been a few times where I'm like ohh yeah thats me.
Myles

Quote from: milktea on March 06, 2010, 10:10:03 AM
why are human languages so obsessed with gendering?

I still wonder the same. Especially with languages that assign genders to inanimate objects or ideas.

Well, if you really want to know there's a wonderful book: Women, Fire, and Dangerouse Things by George Lakoff.  He is a cognitive scientist and wrote this book for others in the field, so it can be a bit difficult at times.

I think the short answer, though, is that the world is a complex place and we categorize things to simplify it and make it easier for us to understand.  To those first speakers, gender was an obvious way to differentiate things since gender differences - to them - were so readily apparent.  And many of the elements of language are in place because of our history.

And now, back to our regularly-scheduled thread...

- Kate

After 21 years, I have heard all the appropriate gender terms and sentences and I have never been addressed otherwise.  When I first started out, my hearing was hypersensitive for the appropriate gender terms, but as always everything fades into the background over time.  Once in a blue moon I will notice the proper gender term or an act of difference to my gender and a smile will cross my face.

Which basically comes to what Rejennyrated said, I don't care what people call me behind my back (I don't really give two hoots) I'm not able to do anything really about it, however I do care when it is in my presence or with friends, is where I take exception.

Kind regards
Sarah B
PS I do take exception to the title Miss, for me, it's Ms.