My friend knows a girl who went on t and then realized she wasnt ftm after all. I think partially the reason it happens more to mtfs though is because they may have mistaken gender identity with their sensitivty or autogynephillia. Its my worse fear that Ill regret this, but thats why we go through so much counseling before we do anything.
I dont know if ill get a hysterectomy. Its too early to think about it.

Quote from: Myself on November 30, 2009, 08:29:33 AM
I heard and had the chance to talk to 2 mtf who regretted and then did it again.

Never an ftm though.
I do think it's a lot due to sociality and that ftm pass so much easier usually.

Another thing can be hormonal, testosterone affects you in one way, estrogen in another.
There are many researchs on how additional dht and testosterone make you more sure and confident of yourself, while the other way around, you can become quite really unstable. Now add on top of being unstable the social part and you can easily collapse.

That's my theory, not experimented or tested in any way.

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Post Merge: November 30, 2009, 08:31:21 AM

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here we go, wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_man

Makes sense to me, untested or not.

As for me... The reason I'm not even remotely considering HRT or GRS is because I'm still not sure exactly where I fit in the gender spectrum. Yes, I hate my body. But am I willing to make those kinds of drastic changes?

I feel like even if I do decide to make steps towards going on T or getting top surgery, that's all I'd do. The GRS options for transmen doesn't look nearly as promising as those for transwomen, either. It just looks so risky, too. Possible nerve damage? Yikes. I think I'll pass.

So hopefully, if I ever decide to really transition, I'll be sure enough about my gender identity that this won't happen to me.

Quote from: Myself on November 30, 2009, 08:29:33 AMAnother thing can be hormonal, testosterone affects you in one way, estrogen in another.
There are many researchs on how additional dht and testosterone make you more sure and confident of yourself, while the other way around, you can become quite really unstable. Now add on top of being unstable the social part and you can easily collapse.

I don't find that true at all.  In some areas, yes, I'm a little more sure of who I am, but the voice change has affected my emotional state far more than I anticipated pre-HRT.  As a singer, it has completely re-written who i am and what I can do, and now many things I was perfectly competent at prior, and probably still am, I find myself second guessing on because I went twenty-seven years and change with an incredibly "flexible" voice and now it's gone.

Don't misunderstand, I'm still a man, I know that much, but as far as I can tell from my own experiences, "testosterone = more sure of oneself" is just machismo and bravado and has no basis in fact.  It's a practically untestable hypothesis, making it veritable hokum.

I think why you don't hear as much about ftms regretting as mtfs 1.) you don't hear about ftms as much period and 2.) women have more gender expression flexibility than men, and thus are less likely to attempt transition because of constraining social roles.  There's probably other factors, but I'm not buying this whole testosterone=confidence thing.

There used to be this bloke in my support group that detransitioned.  He'd already had his breasts & internal reproductive organs removed & a clitoral release. He used to say that a complete hysterectomy is a requirement for trans blokes that have been on testosterone for over 5 years or else they get ovarian cancer & cysts.

Whilst I don't doubt that people like him have other mental issues going on, detransition oftentimes happens when the person isn't in fact transsexual but something completely different like transgender or genderqueer maybe.  I have my doubts & strong reservations about people who are supposedly "transsexual" but enjoy what they've got between their legs & don't want any kind of GRS. 

Quote from: Pia on December 04, 2009, 05:23:54 PM
There used to be this bloke in my support group that detransitioned.  He'd already had his breasts & internal reproductive organs removed & a clitoral release. He used to say that a complete hysterectomy is a requirement for trans blokes that have been on testosterone for over 5 years or else they get ovarian cancer & cysts.

Whilst I don't doubt that people like him have other mental issues going on, detransition oftentimes happens when the person isn't in fact transsexual but something completely different like transgender or genderqueer maybe.  I have my doubts & strong reservations about people who are supposedly "transsexual" but enjoy what they've got between their legs & don't want any kind of GRS.

Remember -- all transsexual people are transgender, but not all transgender people are transsexual. "Transgender" is just more of an umbrella term. But I think I understand what you're saying -- people who are some other form of transgender.[/size]

Quote from: Pia on December 04, 2009, 05:23:54 PM
There used to be this bloke in my support group that detransitioned.  He'd already had his breasts & internal reproductive organs removed & a clitoral release. He used to say that a complete hysterectomy is a requirement for trans blokes that have been on testosterone for over 5 years or else they get ovarian cancer & cysts.

Whilst I don't doubt that people like him have other mental issues going on, detransition oftentimes happens when the person isn't in fact transsexual but something completely different like transgender or genderqueer maybe.  I have my doubts & strong reservations about people who are supposedly "transsexual" but enjoy what they've got between their legs & don't want any kind of GRS.

I've heard the cancer/cyst thing as well, though I can't remember where...something like its reccomended you get a hysto within 5 years of starting T? Either way, not a biggie for me....three women in my immediate family have had to have hystos for the same thing, so I'm hoping to see if I can get that covered by insurance as "pre-emptive".

While I'm not one of those that are perfectly okay with their genitalia I do understand why people (ESPECIALLY MtFs) would choose to not undergo GRS. Even among the MtFs, not all are willing to give up the sexual feeling they already have, some might not like surgery in general (my girlfriend is actually terrified of surgery; she's cis female, but still would have to be drug into an operating room kicking and screaming). People have various reasons for it...sometimes just being seen in society as female is enough to quell any gender issues they have with themselves.

Personally, I'm all for scooping out the bad innards, getting a meta (or if arm penii start actually consistently looking like penises and not fleshy bratwursts, a phallo) and getting the hole closed up for good.

Quote from: Pia on December 04, 2009, 05:23:54 PM
He used to say that a complete hysterectomy is a requirement for trans blokes that have been on testosterone for over 5 years or else they get ovarian cancer & cysts.

Yep that's what my endo said 2. he gave me alot of info. I'd been on T for 4 yrs b4 I got my hysto last month. 

if u've been on T for a long time, best thing's 2 talk 2 ur endo 'bout this.

theres also this: http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Doi=94097

or u can join the yahoo groups: http://groups.yahoo.com/adultconf?dest=%2Fgroup%2Fftmsurgeryinfo%2F

Quote from: Pia on December 04, 2009, 05:23:54 PM
Whilst I don't doubt that people like him have other mental issues going on, detransition oftentimes happens when the person isn't in fact transsexual but something completely different like transgender or genderqueer maybe.  I have my doubts & strong reservations about people who are supposedly "transsexual" but enjoy what they've got between their legs & don't want any kind of GRS.

This is why they've got to have a medical diagnosis of trannsexualism & not just "believe" they're transsexual.  These kinds of problems happen when they "rush into things" without knowing if they're in fact transsexual or they "wanna try things' without knowing about the consequences about the effects of testosterone.  Hopefully they're seeing a reputable gender specialist that doesn't only want their money but their wellbeing too.

Quote from: Christian >.> on December 04, 2009, 09:46:06 PM...(or if arm penii ...

It's penises.  "penii" isn't even vaguely correct mock-Latin.

Sorry, pet peeve.

Quote from: Yvonne on December 05, 2009, 03:03:22 AMThis is why they've got to have a medical diagnosis of trannsexualism & not just "believe" they're transsexual.  These kinds of problems happen when they "rush into things" without knowing if they're in fact transsexual or they "wanna try things' without knowing about the consequences about the effects of testosterone.  Hopefully they're seeing a reputable gender specialist that doesn't only want their money but their wellbeing too.

Unfortunately, I'm betting that most people who've actually transitioned don't meet any kind of currently-established medical criteria.  How many TS persons on this entire forum have had chromosomal or DNA analysis?  How many have had a pre-HRT EEG or similar brainwave scan to compare to cisgender persons?  How many have had a hormonal baseline that actually revealed "abnormally high" pre-HRT counts of testosterone (or oestrogen)?  How many people here, in-transition or total post-Genital Op have substantially more than intuition?

Sorry, neither chromosomes or hormone levels or even EEG can tell you if you are transsexual.
The first two could tell you if you are intersexed.

There are no real medical criteria for transsexualism except how you feel.

Quote from: Renate on December 05, 2009, 09:49:38 PMSorry, neither chromosomes or hormone levels or even EEG can tell you if you are transsexual.
The first two could tell you if you are intersexed.

There are no real medical criteria for transsexualism except how you feel.

Also true, mostly.  This is why I simply cannot advocate re-classifying transsexualism as a "physical issue" rather than a "mental/emotional issue".

Of course, i say "mostly" because an EEG scan, pre-HRT, may be able give "male" results for FTM transsexuals and "female" results for MTF transsexuals -- it measures brainwave patterns, not hormones or chromosomes.  EEG studies have produced distinct results showing that bipolar and schizotypal persons, for example, have truly different brainwave patterns from those who are not; unfortunately, the studies with TS/TG persons are practically embryonic -- there just haven't been enough pre-HRT TS persons willing to take part in these studies to produce anything conclusive, so EEG results for TS persons is pure hypothesis at this point.

The only reason we know is "because we know".  That said, first person to bring up Fibromyalgia will get dealt a heaping hand of Fail.  While there is a general consensus on diagnosis of GID/TS from the psychiatric community (though hardly a consensus on treatment), the the medical associations don't have one Fibro-, so obviously biomedical types aren't content to just know that you "know" you're in pain to diagnose.  EEG studies have shown that people with Fibromyalgia have a clear difference from those without, but all that proves is that the brain is registering as being in chronic pain, it doesn't show what's causing it.

To the degree that people regret this - any more than any people regret anything and everything else in life - depends on one or both of two factors:
a) expectations that are not realistic and hence, not achieved
b) changing realities, so that what you expected is actually not there anymore

Quote from: Pia on December 04, 2009, 05:23:54 PM
I have my doubts & strong reservations about people who are supposedly "transsexual" but enjoy what they've got between their legs & don't want any kind of GRS.

Have your doubts all you like, but I take some offense at the implication that I'm not transgendered because I don't want what's already working to be messed with.

QuoteI have my doubts & strong reservations about people who are supposedly "transsexual" but enjoy what they've got between their legs & don't want any kind of GRS.

Sometimes I wonder about my transsexualism because I'm relatively competent and able to keep my ->-bleeped-<- together and maintain a healthy GPA and employment and a happy social circle and be active sexually. Since it seems that if you polled the internet, those are traits that people in pre/early transition are not capable of possessing.

Some people are more stable than others. Some people are more realistic than others. Some people make better decisions than others. I'm pretty sure I'll have SRS eventually. When I can afford it, which is going to be a long, long time from now. So why sit around weeping into the pillow about something I can't change for the better part of a decade probably? Missing the present waiting for the future just breeds more misery.

Quote
Unfortunately, I'm betting that most people who've actually transitioned don't meet any kind of currently-established medical criteria.  How many TS persons on this entire forum have had chromosomal or DNA analysis?  How many have had a pre-HRT EEG or similar brainwave scan to compare to cisgender persons?  How many have had a hormonal baseline that actually revealed "abnormally high" pre-HRT counts of testosterone (or oestrogen)?  How many people here, in-transition or total post-Genital Op have substantially more than intuition?

Perhaps if transsexualism was actually classified as a physical issue, we could actually receive the care and testing required to properly diagnose it so that it could be legitimately treated. We appreciate your advocacy.

Personally, my estrogen almost tested outside of male range prior to HRT. The thing is that science really doesn't understand hormone levels for transsexuals very well. As well as what affect the body and brain has 'coping' with such a situation for a prolonged period.

I also didn't have the thousands of dollars to get brain scans done.

Quote from: Autumn on December 06, 2009, 02:45:30 PMSometimes I wonder about my transsexualism because I'm relatively competent and able to keep my ->-bleeped-<- together and maintain a healthy GPA and employment and a happy social circle and be active sexually. Since it seems that if you polled the internet, those are traits that people in pre/early transition are not capable of possessing.

Some people are more stable than others. Some people are more realistic than others. Some people make better decisions than others. I'm pretty sure I'll have SRS eventually. When I can afford it, which is going to be a long, long time from now. So why sit around weeping into the pillow about something I can't change for the better part of a decade probably? Missing the present waiting for the future just breeds more misery.

Then there's the fact that TS men don't really have the most functional or aestheticly pleasing genital recon options (not to say MTF GRS always end up great, just typically better).

Quote from: Autumn on December 06, 2009, 02:45:30 PMPerhaps if transsexualism was actually classified as a physical issue, we could actually receive the care and testing required to properly diagnose it so that it could be legitimately treated. We appreciate your advocacy.

That's not an issue that even re-classifying as "a physical issue" would fix.  Many people with fibro don't get proper care because there's "no physical reason for it".  It's the standards of care that need to change -- thanks for having the cognitive abilities to see the lacking care in the U$ as the complex issue it is.  After all, TS persons in Scandinavia, the UK, and Canada have the DSM to diagnose by, yet proper care is a non-issue because we're afforded proper care in those countries.

Quote from: Autumn on December 06, 2009, 02:45:30 PMPersonally, my estrogen almost tested outside of male range prior to HRT.

Good for you.  That's still not really proof of anything.

Quote from: Autumn on December 06, 2009, 02:45:30 PMThe thing is that science really doesn't understand hormone levels for transsexuals very well.

Science still doesn't completely understand DNA very well, either.  Again, you're not proving anything.

Quote from: Autumn on December 06, 2009, 02:45:30 PMI also didn't have the thousands of dollars to get brain scans done.

Most insurance, including Medicare, will cover almost every procedure that can be used to diagnose a condition.  Granted, this is not something that an EEG is authorised to diagnose in most areas, but if you can find a research unit, it won't cost you anything.  Nice cop-out, though; I was wondering how long it would take.

Autumn can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty certain she wasn't attempting to justify anything. I'm so sick of people saying "you're not a transsexual if this or that" and acting all holier-than-thou. People do what they believe is right for themselves. We don't all fit some perfect template. And we don't need to have medical tests run to show us we're right about who we are.

By the way, many of us (myself included) are quite poverty-stricken but do not qualify for medicare. Information is a good thing.

SD

Sometimes I wonder about my transsexualism because I'm relatively competent and able to keep my ->-bleeped-<- together and maintain a healthy GPA and employment and a happy social circle and be active sexually. Since it seems that if you polled the internet, those are traits that people in pre/early transition are not capable of possessing.

Perhaps if you polled the net only, I think in RL far more TS persons are like you then like many of the ones we read about here.  Lynn Conway maintains pages and pages of people who kept high GPAs, were successful in work, and in their social lives.  So often GID becomes either a cop out, or it is existing with lots of other problems, many of which transition does not solve.  There are many people in here who did the same.  People who are highly social, working in real (as opposed to marginal) jobs, who have social lives, a few of which have even created - or helped create - social groups, who have and maintain intimate relationships, all that stuff.  So while often you might not read about it, it is existing.  People are not just coping, but flourishing.

for whoever said he has doubts about people who choose to keep what they have in between their legs.
I'd maybe have doubts, but only in the female section.

Thing is, the female surgery is pretty great, even my gynecologist tells me that he saw people back from suporn and it's just "AMAZING".

But in the case of the guy? I can understand not wanting a surgery to stick something which looks far close from the real thing, barely works and who knows how it feels.. That's just silly.

The confusing thing is that you might see messages "I have something that's working, I don't want to mess with it.", personally, it sounds like something that would give you doubts - until you remember that their surgery would leave them as sexually disabled men instead of.. I dunno, sexually different but functional men.

Quote from: Sebastien on December 06, 2009, 05:07:09 PM
Autumn can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty certain she wasn't attempting to justify anything. I'm so sick of people saying "you're not a transsexual if this or that" and acting all holier-than-thou. People do what they believe is right for themselves. We don't all fit some perfect template. And we don't need to have medical tests run to show us we're right about who we are.

Well, see, you've simply paraphrased what I've been saying.  Testing is unnecessary -- my intent is clear.  Personally?  I have nothing biomedically proven to "back up" my intuition, and I can't stand it when people start making wild and highly unlikely claims that "being TS is a completely physical condition" -- if that were true, there would be physical symptoms; instead, the only symptom is the patient's intuition.

I'll even go so far as to saying that TS persons who insist "it's completely physical" are ableist [expletive, deleted]s who think that mental conditions make a person inferior.  On the contrary, some of history's greatest minds and talents were also somehow mentally disordered.