Some of you guys may remember me, most of you won't. I haven't been on here lately. I apologize for that.
I'm a 18 year old girl.
Who's confused about alot of stuff.
I have a Therapist I go see about every 2 weeks to a month. I've only met him 3 times. He seems like a very intelligent man and kinda intimating. But I like him.
I definitely don't feel comfortable with him, yet. That's usual though with new people.
I feel like he can help me.
I've told him about not wanting the body of a grown woman, but not wanting to be a man or masculine either.
He thinks I have a deformed perception of my body.
And asked me to (and I agreed) to try a new type of medication called Invega for 2 weeks, along with my anti-depressants.
He said they would help to keep my mind off my body and to focus on my life rather then my body.
I feel conflicted.
I want to get better.
But I don't want to just say "who cares about being what I want."
I want to look like an effeminate boy.
Around 14 years old.
That's tiny, slender and feminine.

But it's hard, because I'm a woman with very womanly curves.
I think I'm fat, most people tell me I'm not.
I'm 5'5" 130 lbs, with an hour-glass type body.


I hate it.

I want to look like this (size and body wise):


Not like the fat version of this:



How can I explain it to my therapist so that he understands where I'm coming from?
Does anyone else feel the same way?

Uhhhhh, that first one looks terribly unhealthy.

Oh I know.
But that's what I want.
It looks unhealthy,  but I think it's beautiful.
And what 13-14 year old feminine boy has fat or muscle?
None, they're all thin and soft.


When I look in the mirror. I don't see myself.
I just see a body that's not mine.

So he wants to recommend an anti-psychotic med for that? 
(sorry, but I don't "get it")

I want to say classic "gender identity dysphoria" (in that you want to transition to a neutral physical form) but I don't know enough to make an informed guess at what's up. (if it's a body/mind difference, or somataform issue)

...Nor do I want to play psychologist....
*hugs*

They also don't have hips. If you're an hourglass figure, then it's probably because of your bone structure.

If you get that thin you're going to be ill often. Trust me, I've been that thin before, I was almost hospitalized and that's not fun. Made the depression worse.

@Flan Kitty
*hugs back* thanks.
What do you mean by anti-psychotic?

Neutral physical form? That sounds pretty accurate.
I want to be able to pass off as a legit pre-teen boy but still be able to look like a girl when I want.
Is that what NPF means? 

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Post Merge: December 13, 2009, 07:13:50 PM

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@Lachlann
Yeah. The hips thing doesn't help. 

Have you? I don't want to sound like I don't heed your warnings from experience (I understand the dangers involved with being to thin) but how did you get that thin?

Quote from: BlackRabbit on December 13, 2009, 07:10:47 PM
What do you mean by anti-psychotic?

Invega is a medication to treat schizophrenia

Quote from: BlackRabbit on December 13, 2009, 07:10:47 PM
Neutral physical form? That sounds pretty accurate.
I want to be able to pass off as a legit pre-teen boy but still be able to look like a girl when I want.
Is that what NPF means? 

My reference to "neutral physical form" meant a body that was (without the influence of clothing style and/or makeup) neutral or not distinguishable from male or female, including genitalia. (neither penis or vagina) If I got the latter wrong intent wise, sorry.

I was going to edit my earlier post about how if that is the intent, (transition to androgyne, maybe gender null) instead of talking about what you don't like about your body, talk about who you are and why it conflicts with your current body.

Quote from: BlackRabbit on December 13, 2009, 07:10:47 PM
@Flan Kitty
*hugs back* thanks.
What do you mean by anti-psychotic?

Neutral physical form? That sounds pretty accurate.
I want to be able to pass off as a legit pre-teen boy but still be able to look like a girl when I want.
Is that what NPF means? 

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Post Merge: December 13, 2009, 07:13:50 PM

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@Lachlann
Yeah. The hips thing doesn't help. 

Have you? I don't want to sound like I don't heed your warnings from experience (I understand the dangers involved with being to thin) but how did you get that thin?

I already have a fast metabolism. I stopped eating is what happened and I wouldn't recommend it to be honest. I don't even have big hips but the way fat distributes when you've got estrogen should be taken into account. If you've got an hourglass bone structure, it's just going to pop out more when you're thinner.

@Flan Kitty
schizophrenia? Hmmm he never said anything about that, though I know you can take one medication for a different reason.
I am definitely asking him about that.

Oh that's what NPF means. (uggh must learn these things Dx)
I'm not sure on that. Physically being gender null is ok, but not having either a penis nor vagina is not something I can related too.
So I guess not.

Quoteinstead of talking about what you don't like about your body, talk about who you are and why it conflicts with your current body.

Oh I get it.
I guess who I am is an effeminate gay guy, who loves arts and finding beauty in all medias. My current body conflicts with that by being something I don't find beautiful or me.



@Lachlann
Well we don't have to worry about that for now if it's just not eating. I have a killer sweet-tooth. And it doesn't help that my anti-depressants increase appetite. XP

I have a killer sweet-tooth as well.

Still being that thin will still make you sick.

I know and even after knowing, I still want it.
It's like something you know you're not supposed to touch.
But the more you don't touch it, and the more it's untouchable.
The more you want it.

I want it so badly I can taste it. It's like a tingling on the back of my tongue.

Try binding? I agree with everyone else, the person in the first picture looks WAY too thin to be healthy. Don't let yourself get set on being like that, once you've started a not-eating habit it's hard to break... 
Yeah, I feel the same way as you about wanting a fairly neutral body type, though I think I want something a bit more masculine than what you're describing. While I don't like being so obviously female, I see that if I transitioned I would not know how to cope with some situations where I've learned to use my 'girlishness' to good effect. I want to be able to experience being at all parts of the spectrum of gender though, which is impossible in my current body... damn puberty  While I can see my figure as a girl is pretty attractive by normal standards, it's really not how I want it to be or how I ever expected it to turn out. Now, I have to work with what I've got, building muscle and binding to try and get closer to how I want. Baggy t-shirts are also a godsend!
Maybe if you talked to your therapist more about how you find the social side of things? Eg. how you feel when people refer to you as female all the time, what you want to acheive in your interactions with others and how your current body is stopping you, etc. etc. If all you've been talking about is how you want to look like the first picture, I can imagine he might mistake your dysphoria for dysmorphia! Try and remain calm and reasonable, maybe write stuff down beforehand so that you can explain yourself better. If this guy really is prescribing you anti-psychotic medication, you need to give him a reason to stop that. Is he a specialised gender therapist? His reaction sounds like he might not know much about this kind of stuff...

@Fenrir

No, he's just a therapist. A good one, but not one in a special field.

Yes, I should write stuff down. I get tongue tied when I try to talk about it outloud. I get so nervous that my words come out in clumps.

Can binding even work if you have breats as big as a c-cup? I've read some things about it and about drag kings, but I never actually tried it.
But I know I'm obsessed with the idea of getting a mastectomy.
I don't like breasts...period. 

Quote from: BlackRabbit on December 13, 2009, 08:21:38 PM
No, he's just a therapist. A good one, but not one in a special field.

if hes "just a therapist" hes illegally prescribing you medicine.

Are you in a state where therapists can prescribe medicine?  It's not popular, and even where it is legal, most therapists/psychologists aren't licensed to do it.

Also, saying that any antipsychotic is strictly for schizophrenia is a grossly uneducated statement.  Antipsychotics, depending on which one (admittedly, I don't know as much about Ivega as others), can be used to treat a variety of mental health ailments.

Part of a class of drugs known as "atypical antipsychotics," Invega® (paliperidone) is a prescription medicine that has been licensed to treat schizophrenia and schizoaffective disorder.

Schizophrenia is one of the most confusing and disabling mental illnesses. It is a group of mental disorders that involve abnormal thinking. Although the causes of schizophrenia are not fully understood, it is currently thought that genetics and environmental factors play an important role in developing the illness. Depending on the type of schizophrenia (see Types of Schizophrenia), symptoms may include the following:


    * Hallucinations
    * Delusions
    * Thought disorders
    * Disorders of movement
    * Flat affect (immobile facial expression, monotonous voice)
    * A lack of pleasure in everyday life
    * A diminished ability to initiate and sustain planned activity
    * Speaking infrequently, even when forced to interact
    * Poor executive functioning (the ability to absorb and interpret information and make decisions based on that information)
    * An inability to stay focused
    * Problems with working memory (the ability to keep recently-learned information in mind and use it right away).
       

Although psychotherapy may be helpful for the treatment of schizophrenia (see Psychosocial Therapy for Schizophrenics), medication is often essential to schizophrenia treatment. Invega can help improve the symptoms of schizophrenia. It also helps to prevent schizophrenia relapses (worsening of schizophrenia); however, the medication is not a cure for schizophrenia.

Invega is also approved to treat schizoaffective disorder. Simply stated, schizoaffective disorder is a mental illness with combined characteristics of both schizophrenia and a mood disorder (such as depression, mania, or bipolar disorder). For schizoaffective disorder treatment, Invega is approved both to be used alone (as "monotherapy") or in combination with mood stabilizers or antidepressants (as "adjunctive therapy").


So if its being used for anything other then those two reasons, they are using it outside the licensing and prescription regulations.

I always get a bit concerned when I see people saying, "I want this body".
At the very least, I think that you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

There are many here who say, "I don't like this body, just give me some sort of body of the other sex".

I think that body image is a big problem for too much of this world's population.
Get yourself a healthy body, one not too inconsistent with your dreams and go live in it.

Quote from: Renate on December 14, 2009, 06:29:28 AM
I always get a bit concerned when I see people saying, "I want this body".
At the very least, I think that you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

There are many here who say, "I don't like this body, just give me some sort of body of the other sex".

I think that body image is a big problem for too much of this world's population.
Get yourself a healthy body, one not too inconsistent with your dreams and go live in it.

I agree totally with this. If you would need to bend to being really unhealthy in order to acheive the body that you want, don't do it. As I said, try to work with what you've got, alright? If you aren't a pre-teen yourself (which you aren't, you're 18, like me) then striving to look like a pre-teen boy is more than a bit unrealistic. I had a hard time letting go of my childhood body too, because it fit what I wanted so well, but there comes a point where you have to move on. If you want to PM me, feel free. 

I reckon C-cup is approaching the edge of where binding works pretty well. (I was an E the last time my mum took me to get a bra... I envy you...  ) I say you should try it and see if it makes you feel better? Of course, as with anything, follow the basic guidelines (not too tight, NO duct tape, not for very long stretches of time etc.) to avoid damaging yourself. 

You may want to look into eating disorder related material. From what you're saying, it sounds more like you have a body image issue than a gender issue. Many, many eating disordered girls dislike breasts and hips and want the body in the picture you posted. I'm not saying you don't have a gender issue, that could be possible too, but just letting you know of all the possibilities.

I've been that thin and it's not pretty. When thin is all you want to be, it doesn't matter how thin you get, it's never enough. I wanted a childs body too, because it was formless, because it was neutral. I became anorexic for the first time when I noticed I was becoming a woman. It's taken a long time and a lot of work to get over my eating issues. But I also realize that I did it partly because it helped me cope with other things in my life.
Now I am fairly comfortable with my body, although I'm trying to figure out where I fit on this gender spectrum. It's not like I hate the way I look, but I would still change things.
I'm a C-cup and I can create a fairly masculine looking chest with loose dress shirts and two very small sports bras. However, anything other than loose dress shirts and I just look like a girl with a uni-boob.