I have some odd memories of my early years: Of a visit to the hospital that when i asked my mom about she says it never happened and was probably a dream. And other things....

Is there some way of finding out if i was born with androgynous genitalia? I have asked my mom at least and she said no. But I honestly don't trust her. She might be afraid i would hate her or something if i found out...

The best way to find out is to get the medical records from the hospital where you were born. At age 22, you can do that. All you need is to have a friendly doctor request the files. If you are in a major centre (or near one) you may be able to track down a geneticist or urologist who deals with infants born with ambiguous genitalia - they would be the best ones to interpret your file - but if there was anything unusual in your file any GP would be able to tell you. If you had multiple hospitalizations the doctor should also request the files from that hospital.

Intersex is rare and usually comes with complications that extend well into childhood, puberty, and young adulthood so it is not likely for a person to be Intersex and not know it by puberty.

If any sort of surgery was done - it should be fairly obvious.  Scar tissue would exist.  If they needed to redirect your urethra subsequent surgeries would most likely have been needed over the years.  Since you don't indicate either of those - it's unlikely.

I do know of some cases where no surgery needed to be performed, in those cases intersex conditions became apparent at puberty with the beginning of menstrual cycles and breast development.  Since you don't indicate either of those - it's unlikely.

Yeah i don't think it is likely either... I'm probably not going to bother looking into my medical history, i guess it doesn't really matter much to me what i was...I know what I am.

Quote from: Robin. on December 12, 2009, 02:47:01 AM
it doesn't really matter much to me what i was...I know what I am.

There you go.  Would it make a difference if you're intersex?  Would it change the fact that you're female? ~smile~

Ok..I've been thinking about it more and I have more questions about it.

1.) Are there any natural herbs that could be added to food to decrease the show of symptoms? (my moms an herbalist)

2.)What sort of signs would there be?
    A.) not just the big signs but the little ones too?
    B.) I have always had a somewhat feminine figure, I have been called    mam from behind... Male pants never fit right....
    C.) I have what I have thought were hemmoriods but my doctor has even said i was a little young for that. It seems to occur in cycles. Could bleeding have been diverted to the colon or something?
    D.) I have had "man" boobs a long time. Enough so that someone commented on them when I was 11. And I wasn't fat.

3.) Could I be XX and have been born with a perfectly functioning phalis and testicles? Or XXY..and what not, for that matter?

4.)What does it take to find out what your chromosones are?

5.)And if i am XY could I still be intersex?

6.)And what sort of complications might arise around birth, I guess especially if one is born XXY...?

And because i suspect one or more of my family members may be on this site, I would just like to note that if this is the case, while i would feel emotional about the whole thing, I would by no means hate anyone for having hid this from me. I understand that people do what they think is best, and the future is unknowable.

Quote from: Robin. on December 14, 2009, 12:32:16 AM
Ok..I've been thinking about it more and I have more questions about it.

1.) Are there any natural herbs that could be added to food to decrease the show of symptoms? (my moms an herbalist)

Not really.

Quote from: Robin. on December 14, 2009, 12:32:16 AM2.)What sort of signs would there be?
    A.) not just the big signs but the little ones too?
    B.) I have always had a somewhat feminine figure, I have been called    mam from behind... Male pants never fit right....
    C.) I have what I have thought were hemmoriods but my doctor has even said i was a little young for that. It seems to occur in cycles. Could bleeding have been diverted to the colon or something?
    D.) I have had "man" boobs a long time. Enough so that someone commented on them when I was 11. And I wasn't fat.

Intersex conditions are not a specific condition, but rather a series of them.  And the symptoms are wide and varied.  But probably 90% of them are focused on the genetalia and if that is not abnormal, you are most likely not intersexed.

Wiki gives a very basic understanding:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex_conditions#Conditions


In terms of "feminine figure", there is often a huge variation within both male and female and many attributes we assign to one or the other occurs naturally in both genders.  This isn't really a sign.

In terms of the bleeding, if it is coming from the rectum/ anus it cannot be menstrual.  I've only ever heard of a handful of cases where folks do not have a visible vaginal opening and their bleeding appears far from the anus.

In terms of man bewbs, Gynecomastia is fairly common and is not, in and of itself, an indicator of intersex conditions.

Info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gynecomastia

Quote from: Robin. on December 14, 2009, 12:32:16 AM3.) Could I be XX and have been born with a perfectly functioning phalis and testicles? Or XXY..and what not, for that matter?

4.)What does it take to find out what your chromosones are?

5.)And if i am XY could I still be intersex?

6.)And what sort of complications might arise around birth, I guess especially if one is born XXY...?

And because i suspect one or more of my family members may be on this site, I would just like to note that if this is the case, while i would feel emotional about the whole thing, I would by no means hate anyone for having hid this from me. I understand that people do what they think is best, and the future is unknowable.

Robin,

I don't want to seem like I am de-legitimizing your concerns, but I would caution you in pursuing these questions.  Based on all you have said, it's not likely you have an intersex condition -- if you were to turn out to have one it is a very mild case.

What really troubles me is your concern over your family's responses.  Reading your posts, I'm left with the sense you are struggling with gender and having your family accept that journey.  A number of transpeople attempt to pursue whether they have an intersex condition as a way to "justify" to others their transition.  In the vast majority of those cases, no such condition exists.

In part I speak from experience on this.  Questions of an intersex condition have circled me my whole life.  I became aware the central question in my journey needed to be "Who am I?" and not "What am I?".  I had the awareness if I pursued the possibility of an intersex condition and found I did not have one, I would likely be derailed and delayed from truly deciding how I needed to live and how to reincorporate my old life with my new one.

Eventually I resolved that question - I felt like I always lived between genders and I needed to continue doing so, just closer to female than the male I was.  And when I began to actually to action to make my life congruent with who I was, I also came to discover that my initial thoughts were correct.  I do have a mild intersex condition.  It didn't affect my decisions in the least nor would it have.  In fact, the only real impact was a need to modify my HRT to take lower levels of what most MtF's would take.

I'd caution you to consider doing the same.  Resolve the conflict you seem to have regarding your gender and how your choices there affect your relationships.  Then, if you still feel the intersex questions are there, revisit them at that time.

Quote from: pheonix on December 14, 2009, 09:32:39 AM
Not really.

Intersex conditions are not a specific condition, but rather a series of them.  And the symptoms are wide and varied.  But probably 90% of them are focused on the genetalia and if that is not abnormal, you are most likely not intersexed.

Wiki gives a very basic understanding:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex_conditions#Conditions


In terms of "feminine figure", there is often a huge variation within both male and female and many attributes we assign to one or the other occurs naturally in both genders.  This isn't really a sign.

In terms of the bleeding, if it is coming from the rectum/ anus it cannot be menstrual.  I've only ever heard of a handful of cases where folks do not have a visible vaginal opening and their bleeding appears far from the anus.

In terms of man bewbs, Gynecomastia is fairly common and is not, in and of itself, an indicator of intersex conditions.

Info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gynecomastia



Robin,

I don't want to seem like I am de-legitimizing your concerns, but I would caution you in pursuing these questions.  Based on all you have said, it's not likely you have an intersex condition -- if you were to turn out to have one it is a very mild case.

What really troubles me is your concern over your family's responses.  Reading your posts, I'm left with the sense you are struggling with gender and having your family accept that journey.  A number of transpeople attempt to pursue whether they have an intersex condition as a way to "justify" to others their transition.  In the vast majority of those cases, no such condition exists.

In part I speak from experience on this.  Questions of an intersex condition have circled me my whole life.  I became aware the central question in my journey needed to be "Who am I?" and not "What am I?".  I had the awareness if I pursued the possibility of an intersex condition and found I did not have one, I would likely be derailed and delayed from truly deciding how I needed to live and how to reincorporate my old life with my new one.

Eventually I resolved that question - I felt like I always lived between genders and I needed to continue doing so, just closer to female than the male I was.  And when I began to actually to action to make my life congruent with who I was, I also came to discover that my initial thoughts were correct.  I do have a mild intersex condition.  It didn't affect my decisions in the least nor would it have.  In fact, the only real impact was a need to modify my HRT to take lower levels of what most MtF's would take.

I'd caution you to consider doing the same.  Resolve the conflict you seem to have regarding your gender and how your choices there affect your relationships.  Then, if you still feel the intersex questions are there, revisit them at that time.

i think the question definitly began as a hope for a means of justification as you said. But for some reason I guess you could sy I'm still paranoid about it.

Quote from: Robin. on December 14, 2009, 10:40:02 AM
i think the question definitly began as a hope for a means of justification as you said. But for some reason I guess you could sy I'm still paranoid about it.

So let's say you *do* pursue whether you are intersex and the results are no.  How will that affect you?

A few TSs see founding that they are intersex as a means of validation. More like: OMG im IS, then transition its "right" for me.

Ugh, im sorry but being intersex just mean your body its not exactly "normal" or better say standard. But it doesnt mean nothng regarding your gender. Thats one of the things I learned here that your gender isnt defined by your genitals.

I feel being intersex might affect your perception of gender and who knows. Maybe there "is" something hormonally that affects but so far who knows. Still just think that one common IS condition as XXY. That person might had a male gender or a female one. And by not means being IS will justify which one that person might choose. Gender after all its something very personal.

Im not sure if this is the case with Robin, but sometimes its really needed to just know what the heck its going on with your body. Because in the case of an IS condition the options of surgery and HRT might vary.

Quote from: pheonix on December 14, 2009, 11:10:46 AM
So let's say you *do* pursue whether you are intersex and the results are no.  How will that affect you?

Nothing would really change. I'd have one less possibility to worry about. Ultimatley just having a definitive answer is all I want... proof one way another, so i can stop wondering. I can't say I would be disappointed, I know I'm a woman, regardless of my genitalia.

It does very occasionally happen - particularly for those born prior to the 1970's - but it really doesn't make any difference.

It's how you feel inside that matters, and finding out that you were IS makes no difference to that. That is what defines your identity, not some arcane variation on one tiny chromasome.

So I agree with the others, in terms of your GID it's actually an irrelevance.

Hi Robin,

From my own experience it is possible to be intersex and not know it.  Intersex covers a very wide range of conditions.  Most books on the subject stress the existence of ambiguous external sexual organs.  There are, however, several other conditions that can make a person intersexed.  You could, for example, possess both ovarian and testicular tissue in your gonads without knowing it (Ovotestis).  You could be a male with XX-chromosomes instead of XY-chromosomes (de la Chappell's Syndrome).  There are several other conditions that would make you intersexed without showing it.

In my own case i have the condition known as Ovotestis - I have both an ovary and a testicle.  I only discovered this condition two years ago after many medical examinations by a researcher who is studying sexual abnormalities.  The only external indications that I have are fairly large female breasts and very small sexual appendages.

I have decided to live with my condition and have refused to undergo surgery to "correct" my sex.  By the way, I am now 68 years old.

Lot's of love,
Nevelle

Chantal wrote:
I don't see how being intersex could validate anyone...A karyotype/PCR/FISH tests, CT scans, hormone level checks can also be helpful.  Very expensive & not usually covered by insurance.

My OBGYN was able to turn my karyotype in to my insurance as treatment for a hyposexual disorder. IIRC he said it was about a thousand dollars. Although not necessarily related, conclusively proving I am intersexed would make a HUGE difference for my wife in accepting my transsexualism. Giving her something concrete she can put her hands will be worth its weight in gold.

Ginny

Don't take this seriously, BUT...

There is only one way to find out. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think hermaphrodites have testicles...so - to find out if you have real or fake testicles:
Cut off your testicles. If you still can ejaculate, you are infact a hermaphrodite.
If you can't ejaculate anymore, then you are a genetic male.

Quote from: Robin. on December 14, 2009, 04:11:02 PM
Nothing would really change. I'd have one less possibility to worry about. Ultimatley just having a definitive answer is all I want... proof one way another, so i can stop wondering. I can't say I would be disappointed, I know I'm a woman, regardless of my genitalia.

I agree with you Robin 

Quote from: JillEclipse on February 23, 2010, 09:55:53 AM
Don't take this seriously, BUT...

There is only one way to find out. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think hermaphrodites have testicles...so - to find out if you have real or fake testicles:
Cut off your testicles. If you still can ejaculate, you are infact a hermaphrodite.
If you can't ejaculate anymore, then you are a genetic male.

Do you stick a stake through the person's heart before or after you cut off their testicles? Van Helsing is asking.

Quote from: JillEclipse on February 23, 2010, 09:55:53 AM
Don't take this seriously, BUT...

There is only one way to find out. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think hermaphrodites have testicles...so - to find out if you have real or fake testicles:
Cut off your testicles. If you still can ejaculate, you are infact a hermaphrodite.
If you can't ejaculate anymore, then you are a genetic male.

What is defined as a "true hermaphrodite" has both ovarian and testicular tissue in their genitals.  Some have a mosaic structure in their genitals with both ovarian and testicular tissue in the same gonad.  Others have separate ovaries and testicles.  Such people can be fertile.  This condition is very rare.

love,

Nevelle

There is so much new research to be done, but I pretty much know a little bit more about what has been going on with my body, and because of this conflict, might be why the s r s surgeons are putting off having surgery done to me below the waist.