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Finding a girlfriend

Started by Syles81, December 18, 2009, 10:30:20 AM

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Syles81

It took me about 10 years or so to finally tell my counselor that I was trans. I just didn't want anyone to know how I felt. But it felt good to get that out in the open with her, and we do talk about my gender issues. But that's all we can do is talk about it. I don't know if there is anything else to do but talk about.
Quote from: Lachlann l
i]
"Lord grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."

^ This is what I'm speaking of.
[/i]


I've heard that payer before. But I just can't accept it if it's not acceptable to God.
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Lachlann

And what about having a girlfriend while you are physically female? From what I know of your faith, they would consider that a sin as well. From what you know from what others in your church have said, homosexuality is a sin and it's debatable if that's true or a mistranslation. Now technically if you were to get a girlfriend non-transitioning, that doesn't necessarily make you a lesbian, but if being transgender and transitioning via hormones and surgery bothers you because you don't know if God accepts that, how do you work your way around getting a girlfriend?

To me that seems a bit weird. You think it's alright to be with a woman while being physically female, but transitioning and being transsexual isn't something you can accept? The only other way I could think of this working right is if you were part of an LGBT branch, but then you wouldn't have an issue with transitioning as much because it's supported as being a disorder or a defect by doctors and we've gone over that.

Have you tried praying about it and meditating? That's probably the best answer you're going to get from God before you die.
Don't be scared to fly alone, find a path that is your own
Love will open every door it's in your hands, the world is yours
Don't hold back and always know, all the answers will unfold
What are you waiting for, spread your wings and soar
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Syles81

Quote from: Lachlann on December 21, 2009, 11:26:07 PM
And what about having a girlfriend while you are physically female? From what I know of your faith, they would consider that a sin as well. From what you know from what others in your church have said, homosexuality is a sin and it's debatable if that's true or a mistranslation. Now technically if you were to get a girlfriend non-transitioning, that doesn't necessarily make you a lesbian, but if being transgender and transitioning via hormones and surgery bothers you because you don't know if God accepts that, how do you work your way around getting a girlfriend?

To me that seems a bit weird. You think it's alright to be with a woman while being physically female, but transitioning and being transsexual isn't something you can accept? The only other way I could think of this working right is if you were part of an LGBT branch, but then you wouldn't have an issue with transitioning as much because it's supported as being a disorder or a defect by doctors and we've gone over that.

Have you tried praying about it and meditating? That's probably the best answer you're going to get from God before you die.

I've never had a girlfriend. Never dated anyone. However, I have kissed 2 guys before, but I was in denial at the time, but felt absolutely nothing. I pretended kissing someone else, like a female I had a crush on. There was nothing there for me, and one of the guys was a very good looking, very attractive guy, but there was nothing there for me. We weren't dating or anything, we never really talked to each other, we just had one class together and that one time he pulled me back in the gym and started kissing me and then a few other times when we were alone, and that was it. It was nothing. But I know I don't like guys at all. They do nothing for me sexually.

As for me dating a female while I am in a female body... yes I do believe it would be like a lesbian thing, but in my mind I don't see it like that, but I know in reality that on the outside I am female which in a way would make out to be lesbian even though that's not how I'm viewing it. So that part is hard since I will never transition, but I would never see it as gay relationship because I am not gay.  I am straight, just not in the right body, which is so frustrating when it comes to dating that's why I'll probably be alone for the rest of my life.

Post Merge: December 21, 2009, 10:59:30 PM

but if being transgender and transitioning via hormones and surgery bothers you because you don't know if God accepts that, how do you work your way around getting a girlfriend?[/b][/i]

I don't. I haven't been looking. I guess I have to accept the fact that I'll be alone forever because of how I feel and my beliefs.



"To me that seems a bit weird. You think it's alright to be with a woman while being physically female, but transitioning and being transsexual isn't something you can accept?"


No, I don't think it's okay to be with a women being a woman, but I'm not seeing myself as a woman, I'm seeing myself as male, but since I'm not a real guy, that is a huge problem for me, and I will most likely be alone forever because of that.

"Have you tried praying about it and meditating? That's probably the best answer you're going to get from God before you die."
[/quote]

Yes, I pray every night before I go to bed. I ask God, "why was I born this way? What happened to make me this way?"  I ask God to help me with what I am going through because it's too hard for me to deal with.
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Dianna

I can only say one thing here, Lachlann, you have done a admirable job addressing Syles 'dilemma'.

I'm a chtistian, and frankly God/Jesus Christ is an all loving God.   Syles much of what catholicism practices and preaches comes from 'man' here on this earth or the Pope in Rome.
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Syles81

Quote from: Dianna on December 22, 2009, 12:03:39 AM
I can only say one thing here, Lachlann, you have done a admirable job addressing Syles 'dilemma'.

I'm a chtistian, and frankly God/Jesus Christ is an all loving God.   Syles much of what catholicism practices and preaches comes from 'man' here on this earth or the Pope in Rome.

I agree.  Lachlann has helped me out a lot. :)

I believe God/Jesus is all loving too. Yes I agree with you that a lot of catholic teaching has man made laws or beliefs and I don't agree with them all.
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Lachlann

Quote from: Dianna on December 22, 2009, 12:03:39 AM
I can only say one thing here, Lachlann, you have done a admirable job addressing Syles 'dilemma'.

Thank you.

Syles, I wish you the best in your endeavors and hope that you find your answers soon. Feeling uncertain can be rather intimidating and scary. At a time there were many things I thought were not acceptable by God because I was scared of them or ignorant of them, I'm not saying that you are, but to a degree I can understand what it's like to not know and fear the consequences. And I do think it's possible that there is more than one solution to any given situation, that you can't expect everyone to do the same thing or to solve their situation in the same manner. And I hope that these answers and solutions come soon for you and work well.

And as for your relationship matters, I believe there is someone out there for everyone, several actually. I'm sure you'll be able to find a girl who will love you for who you are, regardless of orientation. There are too many people in this world with all sorts of views for there not to be at least one.
Don't be scared to fly alone, find a path that is your own
Love will open every door it's in your hands, the world is yours
Don't hold back and always know, all the answers will unfold
What are you waiting for, spread your wings and soar
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tekla

Not all questions have answers.  And just because it has an answer, there is nothing in the universe that compels it to be reveled to you.  There is lots and lots - perhaps even most things - that you are just never going to know.  Learn to live with it.  It's not going to change.

And knowledge alone does not bring understanding, and even if you get this great understanding, it might not last long, and then you can add to my GFs mom's edict that "You may understand, but you understand wrong."


As for me dating a female while I am in a female body... yes I do believe it would be like a lesbian thing, but in my mind I don't see it like that, but I know in reality that on the outside I am female which in a way would make out to be lesbian even though that's not how I'm viewing it. So that part is hard since I will never transition, but I would never see it as gay relationship because I am not gay.  I am straight, just not in the right body, which is so frustrating when it comes to dating that's why I'll probably be alone for the rest of my life.

Whoa there partner, you are way overthinking the issue.  All that label stuff and boxes, and who is what and what limits does that place on me - its just so much jibber-jabber.  About the only thing it accomplishes is making you blind to what may well be right there in front of you, and at any rate, while you are contemplating it, you sure are not doing it. You don't date or fall in love with groups (unless you are Tiger Woods) you fall in love with people.  And that's as best as I can figure out about the only way to go about it, one person at a time.  It's almost like pinball, you put the ball in play, play it as well as you can, play it as long as you can and when the ball falls (and they do) you take a pause, breath deep, and play the next ball.  I've never been to hot on the whole gay/straight deal, I think people push so hard on it because of some social crap, but there were people who I could have fallen in love with had a few things worked out a bit different who were not 'in my chart' as it were.

You know, had I been there at a slightly different moment for me, or for them - who knows?  But of course, Ted Bundy's victims could say the same thing.

And its not some immediate 'love at first sight' deal all the time.  If ever.  Lust at first sight I dig and understand, but love takes time, and lots and lots of lovers will tell you that they ended up falling in love with someone they never had any intention of loving in the first place.

Lachlann may well be right about there being a person for everyone.  However that does not guarantee that you are going to run into them in the proper conditions. 

And, there is that other question, of if that person who is out there for you is the right person for your life.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Lachlann

Dang it, Tekla, every time. I have to agree with you yet again, which isn't a bad thing, you tend to be one of the wiser ones around here. I always learn something about life, that's what I love about this place. I think we do over complicate things way too much.

Lust at first sight, that's definitely what I'd call it. It's not that I'm not romantic but it's the pheromones, the look, the body language and I better stop there before I work myself up... but it's not love. I think if you're going to be a romantic at least register the realities of things, but not to the point where you're overly bitter. And don't even get me started on how you come to know someone and even then it's hit or miss on how long it takes. I'm already on a tangent.

I think we could talk about relationships all day and still not get through all of it.
Don't be scared to fly alone, find a path that is your own
Love will open every door it's in your hands, the world is yours
Don't hold back and always know, all the answers will unfold
What are you waiting for, spread your wings and soar
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tekla

I'm hardly any sort of wise (except wise ass, I think I got that covered), I just watch a lot and, as Yogi Berra said: "You can observe a lot just by watching." 

The hard part is training yourself to see what is actually there, and not what you want to be there, and to just watch and not judge or project values.  And, to do that, you need to STFU and sit and let it be.  We spend so much time on our own internal dialog, on our own interpretations, on projecting ourselves outward that we never really learn to sit and watch from a calm natural standpoint.  We never really see what is there, settling instead for our own garbled Procrustean bed where we bend reality to suit us, not the other way round.

Or, perhaps (and it could be both) we lack experience that would inform what we see.  For all the times when "I need some person in my life to love because that's the only way to true and lasting - like forever love - happiness" turns out to be true, and love lifts up and elevates (swell romantic string section here) us to be better people than we wold have been without it, for all that - there is still another side to love.  The side that gave rise to the famous idea that "It's OK to love crazy until crazy loves you back."  The kind of love where Chris Brown can beat up on Rihanna twice, 'cause the bitch didn't listen the first time - and because in that desperate love she went back after the first time to be there for the second go round.   Until you actually see, up close and personal, how love can drain and debase people just as much as it can energize and elevate them its hard to see love in any sort of right relationship to the world and to person hood.  Without the full view its all too easy to see love as some miracle be all and end all and miss it's real power and real danger.

Love is like fire.  Sure, you can use it to cook a tasty meal.  But you can also burn down the forest with it. And as anyone who has seen wildfires out in the Western US or in Australia, those fires don't just burn down the forest, they burn down the mountain, they burn down the world.  Love can make you Rihanna too.

Love is a drug sang Roxy Music and that's not all that bad a comparison (aside from being true, as any combination of college level chemistry and biology will tell you).  They can both be used and or abused, and that's a pretty fine line out there in deep space and its way hard to tell when you've gone past it until you are long past it.

So you have to - just like with fire - love carefully. 




We all have to make scary decisions and wonder if it was the right one. But choosing not to do anything, to take no important steps, to not take a journey through what your life has to offer, results in a life unlived
That's pretty much the classic formula for your classic Greek Tragedy.  You can write any paper on any Greek Tragedy based on this: You're dammed if you do, your damned if you don't.  To the Greeks, a lot of life was not a choice between good and evil - it was between sucks a lot and sucks even more.  It sucks to be Hecuba.  (Hell, I can tell you that it sucks to be living with someone as I did who was doing Hecuba professionally and thus living it every day for well over half a year, as an added treat - those who know the story are going to love this - she used her, (our) children in the play.  It was all kinds of messed up.)  It sucks to be Agamemnon.  Its not all that hot to be his daughter Iphigenia either, and by the way it also sucks to be Clytaemnestra, but in a different way.

So, if both choices suck, if you are damned if you do, and damned if you don't, then what is it to be human?  Well, to the Greeks (and this is why the early Christians hated this stuff and burned every copy they ever came across) the nature of humanity could only be achieved by action, and in acting you can at least defy the gods and be human. 

As all the fans of The 300 know them pesky Spartans were pretty much in the same boat (they were Greek after all).  There was no way they were going to avoid that war.  Either way, they were going to lose.  If they blocked the Hot Gates they could buy time, but they would be slaughtered, if they let Xerxes roll on into Greece it would be horrific - because horrific was pretty much the way Xerxes rolled period.  So...

So, we love this story so much that almost every culture has one.  In the US its the Alamo.  Where a bunch of people face down overwhelming odds and certain death with hell bound for leather attitude of '->-bleeped-<- 'em, we ain't going down without a fight."  We really like that kind of proud, stubborn and relentless dumb fight it out deal.  It's very human.  That's when the Greek Tragedies turn, when the person choose not to wait for fate (the gods) but to go out and meet them head on.  Sure, you're going to lose.  Hell, you were going to lose all along, so you might as well have it go down on your terms. Man becomes man, man becomes human - not in submitting to the will of the gods, but in defying them. 
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Syles81

Quote from: Lachlann on December 22, 2009, 12:46:47 AM
Thank you.

Syles, I wish you the best in your endeavors and hope that you find your answers soon. Feeling uncertain can be rather intimidating and scary. At a time there were many things I thought were not acceptable by God because I was scared of them or ignorant of them, I'm not saying that you are, but to a degree I can understand what it's like to not know and fear the consequences. And I do think it's possible that there is more than one solution to any given situation, that you can't expect everyone to do the same thing or to solve their situation in the same manner. And I hope that these answers and solutions come soon for you and work well.

And as for your relationship matters, I believe there is someone out there for everyone, several actually. I'm sure you'll be able to find a girl who will love you for who you are, regardless of orientation. There are too many people in this world with all sorts of views for there not to be at least one.

Thanks Lachlann. I hope I find the answers soon too and hope I find that right girl that will accept me for me someday.

Post Merge: December 22, 2009, 12:56:32 PM

Quote from: tekla on December 22, 2009, 01:08:56 AM
Whoa there partner, you are way overthinking the issue.  All that label stuff and boxes, and who is what and what limits does that place on me - its just so much jibber-jabber.  About the only thing it accomplishes is making you blind to what may well be right there in front of you, and at any rate, while you are contemplating it, you sure are not doing it. You don't date or fall in love with groups (unless you are Tiger Woods) you fall in love with people.  And that's as best as I can figure out about the only way to go about it, one person at a time.  It's almost like pinball, you put the ball in play, play it as well as you can, play it as long as you can and when the ball falls (and they do) you take a pause, breath deep, and play the next ball.  I've never been to hot on the whole gay/straight deal, I think people push so hard on it because of some social crap, but there were people who I could have fallen in love with had a few things worked out a bit different who were not 'in my chart' as it were.

Yeah, I do label things, sometimes without meaning to.  But I guess I have my mind set on not dating or looking for any women who are gay because it won't work out if I'm seeing are relationship one way and she's seeing the relationship the other way, ya know what I mean? I don't want to have a gay relationship. So since I'm stuck in this female body I can't date or else it's gunna be like a gay relationship and that is something I do not want.

Post Merge: December 22, 2009, 02:18:13 PM

Quote from: Kvall on December 22, 2009, 06:17:41 AM
Having gender dysphoria is considered an illness. Trans people are much, much more likely to commit suicide if they are unable to access treatment. So yes, that does mean that for many, it is a situation of transition or die (not for all). For that matter, there are plenty of non-fatal illnesses that we treat without moaning about whether it is natural or God's will. Cleft lip is a good example of this. People do not generally die from having a cleft lip, but surgery to fix the lip significantly improves their quality of life.

Why do you think God wants you to merely survive? Don't you think God wants you to thrive?

My understanding is that the official Catholic position is that while they do not support transition, it is preferable for the person to transition than for them to commit suicide. I think they are wrong to not support it in general, but they certainly are spot-on that it is a much better route than suicide.

I think it's also a much better route than the suffering you're going through. I don't mean to be trying to pressure you into transitioning or anything like that, but I hope that you keep your mind open to it because it sounds like it could really help you out.

As for God causing or not causing sickness... this is debated within Christianity, but John 9 gives ample support to the idea that God creates some people with illnesses and birth defects--with the intent that they be healed. In John 9, Jesus heals a blind man and when his disciples ask whose sins made the man blind, Jesus replies that "Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life." That is, God intentionally created the man blind for a greater purpose--to show God's healing work via Christ, and also to give the man an opportunity to have a transformative experience alongside Jesus. I recommend that you try for something similar in your life -- use this as a means to become closer to God. Pray, meditate, do whatever you normally do to connect with God, and ask for the clarity and strength to see the right path for you and to follow it.

We all have to make scary decisions and wonder if it was the right one. But choosing not to do anything, to take no important steps, to not take a journey through what your life has to offer, results in a life unlived.

If you do decide to transition, then remember that there are many ways of doing it. Some guys just cut their hair, switch to male clothes, pick out a male name, and start going by male pronouns. No hormones, no surgery. They're still transitioning, just not medically. Others will do just hormones or just surgery. Others will have hormones & top surgery. Others will have hormones, top surgery, and genital surgery. And so forth. Point is, don't feel overly pressured by the idea of transition being one set path. Your transition can be "customized" to be right for you.

Remember always that "[T]he Lord does not see as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart." (1 Samuel 16:7)


As for the girlfriend issue: Even if you have not taken hormones or had surgery, my experience is that many straight girls will still be open-minded about having a trans boyfriend as long as he presents as male (male haircut & clothes, goes by male pronouns and name, and so forth). The more male you look, the more it will help. I agree that a bi girl may be more likely to want to date you, just make sure that they recognize you as a guy and not as a girl or a boy-girl hybrid.


Why do you think God wants you to merely survive? Don't you think God wants you to thrive[/i
]?

I agree with that.


Yeah, I agree also about the catholic church not being supportive of transitions. It's like the catholic church is pushing away someone who is different and God would never push away someone who is different. So they think they are doing what is right, but really, God would never do what the catholic church is doing, he would be accepting, right? This is where I'm confusing myself her a little bit, depending on whether transitioning is right or wrong according to God.


I wear unisex type clothes, I'm trying to get people to call me by another name, but for some reason they won't or forget or it's too weird for them to call me by another name, but I got my online friends to call me by another name. It's not the name I want, but it's just a nickname of my last name. But if I were to ever change my name for real, I'd want another name, not that nickname that my online friends call me. I have several different names I want to  be called but can't decide on one.  I like my hair long, (shoulder length) I don't want to cut it real short, but my hair it's still a unisex type haircut. I guess I just have to style it so I look more like a guy.

As for transitioning, I'm still thinking. But I'd have to wait until I came out to my mom and family about this before I would do any transitioning.

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