Hi again, and sorry if this is an icky or gross topic, but it's the main thing on my mind right now.

I'm one of the weirdos who still masturbates, even though I would like very much to be a woman, complete with any and all surgeries that I could get (if I could afford them). So on the one hand I do feel like an actual transsexual, because I want to transition completely, rather than a ->-bleeped-<-, the difference (as far as I can tell) being that the ->-bleeped-<- is ok staying a man, and doesn't want to lose the penis. Me, I'm fine losing the tackle, in fact I'd be very happy with that... most of the time.

The thing is, I do get a sexual thrill out of dressing. And when I masturbate, the "trans" feelings go away completely immediately after climax, for a couple of minutes or more it's like something's been lifted from my mind and I just don't feel it any more. I feel silly for wanting to be a girl, I'm a man after all, and at this point I often end up taking the clothes off again. The trans feelings inevitably gradually come back though, usually within a couple of minutes.

This is most disturbing to me, because it makes me doubt whether I am "really" a transsexual, or if I have just somehow gotten some sex/gender wires crossed in my brain. Am I just a sexual fetishist? What about the fact that I want to transition, do surgery etc, the whole deal? Does a fetishist actually want those things?

What's the difference between really wanting something, and just having very vivid sexual fantasies about doing it?

I mean I would actually do it (transition completely) if I could, but the fact that the urge goes away so completely immediately after climax makes me wonder if it's all just actually some sex-driven thing.

I have started therapy, and she has suggested that I might try de-coupling the masturbation from the dressing to see how it feels. So far, two days, I've masturbated both times, but kept the clothes on afterwards, and felt very ok with it after that brief "post orgasm chasm". In fact I felt rather sad taking the clothes off later on when I had to go out. So I'm a little confused as to what's going on here.

Has anybody else any insights? I'm looking for a bit more than validation as in "don't worry, you're a girl" etc, I'm actually trying to work out what this means.

Thanks!

Meow

Are you on HRT? If you aren't, you may discover it is very different when the correct hormones are in your blood.

Maggie

Hi Maggie, no I have no started hormone therapy yet. How do you think that might change things?

Thanks!

Meow

The post sex hormone change that occurs after HRT is really different. I once had almost a feeling of depression after orgasm but on HRT, these feelings went away. Some therapists use HRT as a diagnostic tool. Some people who think they may be trans can't tolerate life on estrogen. For me it was wonderful!

Maggie

HRT will lessen and change the sex drive - specifically anti-androgens.  Your story is not uncommon though, but we already talked about that in your previous thread.  I believe it is possible to have intense gender dysphoria while also having a prevailing fetish concerning the clothes etc.  I won't say they are linked or that one causes the other because they don't always appear together.  I have known and read others who have been happy transitioning who also felt the way you did.  After HRT and surgery they tend to lose the sexualized side effect and end up just being in a comfortable position.   Anne Lawrence is a great example of one of these individuals. 

On the other hand I've read of others who have really regreted it once done.  They liked the sexual component and realized it was a large factor in why it felt good to be a girl, and transition was no more than acting out a fantasy, a fantasy that actually unintendedly killed their fantasy.

Were I you, I'd figure out how deep these feelings go.  See if you CAN "be yourself" without resorting to sexual behavior or sexual thoughts (I'm fairly certain that before masturbation you begin to think of yourself in sexual positions as a female, but I could be wrong).  Try to instead think of neutral things, like... going to the store, etc, or just do everyday things as "you".  If after an extended bout with no sexual component, you look at yourself in the mirror and say, "WTH??! That isn't me.. what am I doing!??  I'm wearing a dress!!"  Then you might have your answer.

Remember though, not everything we "want" or "feel" is good for us or even right for us (one doesn't have to have children to see they often intensely want something TOTALLY not good for them).  It takes a lot of work to determine the "right" path and it isn't always the one that immediately feels the best.

If you continue to be honest with yourself, you will be fine, regardless of how you choose to deal with it.  Keep working with your therapist and delving into your motivations and you will find a way to be at peace I believe.

Masturbation promotes release of the brain's opioid-like neurotransmitters (endorphins), which cause feelings of physical and mental wellbeing.

It's only natural to feel good, mentally, for a little bit, after letting one off.
As such, it's perfectly natural if GID fades or even goes away completely for a little bit when you masturbate, especially if you orgasm.

This also means that wanting to masturbate is natural as the feelings of wellbeing are really attractive if you experience depression, stress, dysphoria, and other related sensations, pretty much 24/7 outside of masturbation.

When I was younger, I had a very strong sex drive, and I was easlily aroused by many things. This was very confusing for me because it was hard for me to separate my GID from the arousal. I wondered whether my GID might just be another erotic aspect of my out of control sex drive, and that, once my sex drive was under control, I would no longer feel like a woman.

Now that I am getting older and my sex drive has declined, I can see that my GID is independent from my sex drive. I am taking an anti-androgen and have a reduced sex drive due to that also.

I guess my point is that I understand how an overactive sex drive can confuse the situation so that it is hard to know what role the GID plays. Now that I have a much reduced sex drive, I have no doubt about being TS. Sex is not really much of a part of it. Knowing this helps, since I can focus more on what to do about rather than whether it exists or not.

You are asking good questions. Your answers may be different from mine, but you are smart to be as analytical as possible about it.

Good luck,

Steph

Thanks, these are some very interesting observations, please keep 'em coming!

To me, this has always been the most intriguing side of my GID. I do find a sense of peace (and wonderment) settling in once I get past the masturbation and just "be" around the house wearing the women's clothing. And as I said before, there is a feeling of sadness and regret when the time comes to take it all off and go back to wearing my regular guy clothes. I think I really do enjoy and feel comfortable in women's clothes.

When I was talking about all this with the therapist, I was trying to pin down exactly what it was that makes one a "woman". To me, it seems like there are just so many trivial little qualities that some people seem to latch onto, e.g. painting nails or wearing certain clothes or having hair in a certain style, putting on makeup, or behaving with certain mannerisms (some seem to think women should be more "prim" and "proper" or should or shouldn't do certain things etc). But when I look at each of those, I can think of many women who don't exhibit this behavior, or wear that clothing, and so on and so forth. Often it seems that these things are somewhat of a throwback to attitudes toward women from back in the 1950's or something. I'm not talking about anybody here, but rather looking at some of the fantasy literature out there, it just seems a bit much, sometimes, and actually seems to exhibit rather demeaning attitudes toward women in general.

So for me, one of the biggest aspects of my desire is to actually go as far as possible with respect to making my body female, so that means FFS, SRS, and whatever else I can do. It's almost that the clothing, makeup and the rest of it are just props, what really matters to me is how I am underneath it all. This is probably why I feel dressing to be so unfulfilling nowadays. It was very titillating at first, but now it just feels like a bit of a dead end in its own right. So my own personal intuition is telling me what some have suggested above, that the sexual arousal from wearing the clothes is not fundamental to my condition, but is rather just an expression of the idea of seeing myself as female (which clothing helps). It's not the be-all and end-all of my GID, if that makes any sense.

The chemical changes that take place in your brain immediately after orgasm seem very interesting to me. That must be a fascinating area of study.

I've been thinking about how I would be after transition. I believe that if I were able to do sufficient FFS and SRS, then I would probably aim for something not too radically different from "me now", but just a more feminine version thereof. Hopefully with restored hair (perhaps transplants, but whatever works), I might be able to present convincingly in a kind of feminine and/or androgynous manner, somewhere between, but not looking hideous if I want to dress in a feminine way. I think I would probably be quite open about my past, rather than trying to hide it away and lie to people. In my experience so far, people generally have been very open and accepting of the concept of me being transgender or even transsexual. It's easy to think ourselves into a funk with this, imagining that everybody will point and laugh cruelly before kicking us out onto the street. And while it's true that there are probably some places that would do that, most of the time, people are actually pretty ok and decent, even interested. I think a lot has to do with your own attitude and demeanor. If you come across as relaxed, rational, and calm, then people respond to that. It's funny what people will accept if someone just acts like they know what they are doing, and that they belong there. If you start acting all cagey and start stuttering and your eyes dart around, then that makes people nervous, and it's a self fulfilling thing.

I made an appointment today at a local Wig shop (The Beauty Stop here in Eureka) to get fitted up for a wig. I just walked in and calmly explained that I wanted to find a woman's wig, for myself. The lady, Kathy, was so friendly and helpful, and even though she had an upcoming appointment, she took me around back to do some preliminary measuring. I will go back in about a week, when she will hopefully have more options (not a lot right now in my size). The more I find I am just open and direct with people, explaining that I am transgendered and being friendly and calm, the more I realize that a lot of how we are perceived derives from our own attitude.

Sorry, now I'm rambling on... thanks again for the tips.

Meow

You are worried that having sexual stirs because of this means that you are really a guy that is only confused.  I don't think just because you get sexually stirred over clothes that this disqualifies you from being a transsexual.  If you have desires to be a girl while you are sexually aroused, than that would be a different story.  The body is going to do what it is going to do when it comes to sex.  Even though people can be Transsexual, they still need release from sexual tension.  Do you ever have thoughts of being a girl in a nonsexual setting?  Do you find yourself at work or at school, or wherever looking at other women and fantasizing about being similar to them?  Do you see a group of women and get depressed that you are not like that?  These types of things are not set in stone either, but things like this indicate what your dysphoria is like and how it acts. 

I tend to be drawm towards women that have similar attributes to me.  I never really noticed this until just a little while ago.  I think it is because I feel I will never be able to portray a feminine image and these girls help give me hope that maybe one day I can actually do this.  Maybe the clothes themeselves actually represent a personality trait about you.  This sounds weird I know. What I mean iis similar to how red means blood, or black is a symbol for death.  Do you associate a certain meaning to the clothes you dress in?  Do you ever feel like you need more than just clothes to be happy?  It seems to me that you do. 

I got stuck in this whirl myself.  Some how my TG issues were triggered by pantyhose,  I first I thought it was wierd that I wanted to dress up in it and all.  I used to have strong fantasies about this and then I started fantasizing about dressing up in other things.  I finally did dress up in a skirt and blouse in 2002 and I put on a few dresses.  This satisfied me for awhile but eventually clothes were not enough.  I was too scared to push forward but a year later I started trying to work on my voice.  then I got too scared again and thought since there was not a big difference between the genders anyway, I should not want to do this to myself.  For a while I could put these feelings out of my head but then they would return.  When I played games I would always put my initials in as the female ones I gave myself.  I also had fantasies of dressing up like a female school teacher.  I thought this discounted me as a TS and that I was actually a male because of this fantasy and thought this type of outfit might be making me horny without me realizing it.  Anyway, I realized that this was not the case.  Since I feared this as being a male fantasy and hated that this could be just that, I learned that this was yet another indicator of how strong my dysphoria really was.  Then I realized I thought of this school teacher stuff because this is where I engage most of the outside world as well as other women and I am studying philosophy so it was only natural that I would fantasize about school teachers. 

Another reason this is hard is because of the "primary TS" stories that are out there saying " I felt this way since I was 2 seconds old."  I am not saying these stories are wrong but it does create a problem for those that don't feel anything TG until later like you and I did.  I did not feel any inkling of being TG until 15 or 16.  I believe that some TSism can develop over time.  The fear also arise because we fear that therapists won't let go through with it because they will say we are men and then stop us in our tracks.  Then yout think, if I am diagnosed as a man, what do I do about these feelings then and how can I do anything about them when no one believes me? 

Sorry for taking forever           

Hi Lauren, thanks very much for your thoughtful insights. I can relate, I think. My trigger was also pantyhose for a long time, and I too progressed on to more complete outfits. For me, though, I know these feelings where there way before puberty. I think I didn't quite know what to make of them as a child, but they were there for sure. I don't think that makes me any more or less of anything than anyone else, but it does give me some inkling that perhaps it's not simply a sex driven thing, since it was around a long time before those sex hormones started screwing everything up.

I can relate to your comments about looking at other women and fantasising about being similar to them. In fact, now when I see any attractive woman I find myself mentally taking notes on what it is she has done to make herself so attractive - those little things, the shoes, the dress, whatever. Usually, though, it's just a beautiful woman - they could wear a trash bag very often and still look fantastic. Kinda depressing - I mean, I'm steadily losing weight now (been doing lots of exercise, motivated by wanting to get rid of that extra fat around my middle - nothing like women's clothing to make that so much more noticeable!), but I don't think I'll ever get to that classic hourglass figure. Not without a lot more work!

I'm curious as to where you are now in your expression of your gender dysphoria. Are you keeping it "under control" as a male, or are you transitioning?

Thanks again!

Meow

Keeping it "under control."  School helps me keep busy.  I am just getting over the whole 'does this really exist inside me thing." 

Lauren, have you seen any gender therapists? I don't really like the term "therapist" because it makes it sound like there's something wrong with us, but I don't think that's necessarily true at all. I see all of this as being simply an indication that we don't fit into the rigid gender stereotypes that are imposed by society. The thing about a knowledgeable psychologist, particularly one who specializes in transgender, is that they can help you come to a better understanding of what it is you are feeling. It doesn't have to lead to transition, it can simply help to talk about it with someone, especially if that someone is a professional who can help you figure this out. Sorry if all that's blindingly obvious, it's just a thought.

Meow

Hi Meow!

My estimation is that what your experiencing is as others have stated, it's not that uncommon. I used to feel tremendous guilt after arousal. I just wanted the feelings to not return and leave me alone; they always came back. The same as what you described. Eventually, when I could not even pleasure myself from wearing female clothes, I had no way to get rid of the continuous thoughts of having a need to present in a feminine fashion. This is when I began to really research why I felt this way and discovered myself at the same time. So yes, you may be transexual. That's something you'll figure out as time goes on, whether you are or you aren't.

Glad to hear that you went to see Kathy! I've purchased many, many wigs from her. She's a very good person and very trans friendly. Her assistant, Sara, is as well. Which reminds me, I have one there now to pick up!


Dawn

   

Hi Dawn! Yes, Kathy seems great. It's really nice just being so matter-of-fact about this stuff with someone, and having them just accept it without feeling a need to explain everything from scratch (Imagined scenario: "What? You want a woman's wig? For yourself? You mean, like, for a party or fancy dress? You think you're what? Transsexual?? WHAT? GET OUT OF MY SHOP YOU FREAK BEFORE I CALL THE POLICE!!! HELP!!!, cue sirens, spotlights etc - the fear I think we all have in the back of our minds when we try this sort of thing  )

Meow

I can relate to your experience. I had the same exact thing happen to me when I was younger, and it really confused me. In the same way you described, I would dress up and after the climax the feeling that I was a girl completely went away, as in 100%. Then, after about 5-10 minutes or so, it would be back as usual. I fought with myself so much about this, since like you say, it goes away so completely.

I even started to do it just so I could feel normal. I would dress up and climax just so I could get that brief few minutes of relief that maybe I can be normal and not need to transition. However, it always came back.

HRT has changed it though. Now, after I climax I only have stronger feelings that I am a girl. I believe there must be something with regard to the large amount of hormones being triggered during masturbation and climax. I haven't had those feelings at all since I started HRT like 5 years ago, and now that I've been full time for a couple years now, everything has settled into normalcy. I wouldn't go back for anything.

I wouldn't take it as a sign that you're not transsexual, especially since the feelings come back so soon after. I understand exactly the feelings you're talking about and know first-hand that it has no correlation to your true gender, just a moment of hormonal imbalance that causes a shift in your mind for some reason.

~Sarah

Hey guys sorry I am late, Hi Meow I've missed talking to you for a while . This forum is fantastic and such a knowledge base that we perhaps might not need any outside therapy after all . Seriously though, I am seeing a theme emerging from all this discussions, and it is an image assimilation. Clothing, nails, heels, hair etc.
If we would strip all those to the bare skin, and give no significant attention to body shape or sexual characteristic I wonder weather we would feel the need for reaffirmation of one gender or the other, we would simply be our selves. I often wondered about reaffirmation, the process of approving one self as a specific brand or gender, where in fact gender lines are not even lines but rather overlapping interconnected psycho-fog. Proven by science, intertwined in every being is male and female ingredient. For most, dosage of one overwhelms the other perhaps for us is more of a equilibrium and we tend to have more of a confusion as to whom we ought to be rather than clear picture of who we are.

another one with similar experience.  The suggestion to de-couple masturbation from dressing was something that helped me to understand that it wasn't just a sex thing. 

Of course, to complicate things, I was into fetish clothing a while back, so separating clothing from the sexual activity was pretty much impossible.  One of the other responders said it though: sometimes when you wear things or picture yourself in certain situations or positions, it can be something of a turn on.  I don't think that means you're not trans, it just means that you have something that excites you. 

All that to say this: if you need more 'regular' clothes, you might try that out.  Get things that aren't exciting or stimulating.  I think Interalia was saying something similar-- if you're wearing very mundane clothes and you aren't just interested in getting into something sexy then that might be an informative experience. 

It's already been mentioned, but since orgasms usually make you feel better mentally and physically, and since having GID is a stressful thing, it's probably normal that the GID feeling would seem to go away after an orgasm along with other stressful things. Too bad it's only for such a short time though..

I am thinking about seeing a therapist, but I am afraid of what I described in my above post about earlier.  The funny thing is, I don't feel as if I am "acting" like a male.  But it still bothers me that I am not girl for some reason even though my actions and manners are that of a man.  This why a good bit of the time I believe that somehow I made myself have gender dysphoria in a way or I am psychosomatic and think I have dysphoria but actually do not.  I don't know why I would do this to myself though.  Then other times I just get all sad when looking at another girl.  I don't know why I am an idiot.  I could never pass in a million years, and no one would ever believe me as a woman.  I know all of this but somehow my brain continues.  I also feel guilty for wasting other people's time.  I hate my feelings because they are fake but they feel real.   

Hi Sarah, that is very reassuring! Thanks. And I love your pic, btw.

Alexia, hi again! Yes, I'm still here. I drop in and out of view like a little ghost.

Jessica, thanks as well - I've been experimenting these last couple of days with just being around the house while dressed - luckily I work from home (software developer, my own website) so I can do that. It's nice! I have to say, the thing I'm noticing is that I feel really sad when I have to take this stuff off. It's not that I feel myself changing into a different persona or anything so radical, but just that I actually really think I enjoy wearing women's clothing, it makes me feel good about myself, more who I'd like to be. Currently getting used to wearing high heels (I know, I know, most women don't wear high heels all the time, but I am just working through my clothing stereotypes here). I love your pic too, by the way - you look beautiful.

Lauren, I would go find a good trans-friendly therapist, really. I hate how that sounds, it seems like I'm saying "you need help", but that's not it at all. Have you ever talked to anybody about this stuff? I know I hadn't, prior to my first session back in 1999. But it was huge, such a big load off my shoulders simply to express all this stuff to someone who actually understood what I was going through. Trust me, just go do it, you'll feel so much better. It's not even about getting any particular outcome, it's just not very healthy (imho) to keep this stuff bottled up all the time. Online interaction helps, but it's anonymous and it's different talking to someone who's sitting right there in front of you.

I used to do Improv back in NYC at a great little workshop run by Tom Soter. He always tried to drum into us when we went up on stage, to not go up there with some big plot in mind - just keep your mind open, and react to the other people, don't block, don't say No, say "Yes, and..." - in other words, agree with what the other person comes up with, and add something else to it. It taught me not to try to second guess what's going to happen in life, but just to pay attention and try to take things as they come, and go with the flow a bit. That's how I'm trying to approach this transgender thing now. It scares me a little to think about HRT and getting breasts etc before I'm ready to start living as a woman (I think I need quite a lot of FFS before I could pass convincingly), but part of me is saying "Just go with it, don't try to second guess the future, it'll all work out somehow..."

My new sig pretty much says it all. Great song, by the way!



Thanks again, everyone!

Meow