No predator bats 100%, I'm just saying that they have already done the surveillance and found the people with the right 'deer in the headlights' look and feel about them.  They pick off people who are isolated in a physical sense to the rest of the room and people in it, and who are also obviously isolating themselves, i.e. not moving to be with a bigger group of people, but moving away - in other words, they have cut themselves off from the herd.

You rarely, if ever, have to worry about the guy who will try to pick you up or whatever while you're in the middle of a group (he may well be an egotistical ->-bleeped-<-, but he's not a predator), the people you worry about are those operating at the fringe, and they pick on people who have self-selected themselves to also be on the fringe. It's really weird to watch.

And they are not going for that super-confident person (again, that's the egomaniac who picks the hardest target in the room), the look you in the eyes type, the person with that certain swagger or sense of presence that implies that that they are part of this place, this scene, that in some sense they have some ownership in it.  Matter of fact, I'm pretty much convinced that the first 'tell' of the prey is an unwillingness to meet people's eyes, like they don't want to be seen or recognized where they are.

Nobody is ever going to be 100% safe and everyone has different standards as well. Often, those standards get lower as more and more drinks are consumed. Personally, I like sex and I enjoy one-night stands with no strings attached. That doesn't mean I am not highly selective, however. I would much rather leave alone or with friends than leaving with the wrong person and having to deal with drama which could include anything from having a nuissance stalker to a wasted evening to having to get the police.

Again, anyone who is so quick to talk about sex in an explicit manner is someone to keep an eye on. Chances are they are already drunk. They are also not showing you any respect which means that it could get worse if you hang out with them after the club. The most common problem I've had when leaving with someone at a bar is that they become a pest. Once you leave with them, you can't seem to get rid of them.

Believe it or not I had an inappropriate incident at a Phoenix-area club last night. A girl (GG) came in who I've talked to many times and who is friendly but this time she came with her brother who decided to immediately pinch my butt. He then says "Wow, I never pinched a guy's butt before." Now I could have created a major scene but sometimes it is better to handle things in other ways. I simply told him point blank that you are not to touch me without my permission. The girl told me he meant no harm and I could see he was a bit drunk so she had talked him into apologizing to me which he did so I just left it at that. Generally, I will issue a person one stern warning and if it continues I will simply get the bouncer and have them deal with it. If it continues further, then I would question whether that it is a club I would want to hang out at and I would probably use physical force or even call the police to get it to stop. I have noticed a trend at clubs though that the more upscale the place is, the fewer you have these incidents and the rougher the bar is the more common. These things can happen anywhere but when they do happen in nicer places, you can generally count on the management to handle it appropriately and promptly.

As to the OP carrying a gun in her purse, this is what I generally do as well. Retention is important and naturally a gun grab is easier when the gun is in a purse vs. a retention holster. If the gun is concealed and you don't let people know you have it, it is less likely they will try to grab for it. I never leave my purse unattended, EVER. This includes in the company of even the best friends because someone could try to grab it from them. I always have it close by and keep one hand on it but not in a way to make it look like I'm paranoid. It is hard to conceal firearms in crowded clubs when holstered because of the close contact. The second someone hugs you or merely bumps into you, they are going to discover it. Even if the club does not have a sign prohibiting weapons, if it is brought to their attention by an uncomfortable customer, they would probably ask you to leave it in the car and it would be embarrassing. Some states allow open carry in drinking establishments but I wouldn't do it because it is socially awkward. A lot of people may think that if there are bouncers and it's a nice place, why do you need a gun? While needing it is probably highly unlikely, crime happens anywhere at any time. To me it is like a fire extinguisher. You aren't likely to need it but it is there in case you do.

I hope the OP comes back soon because she does seem like she has been in a lot of stress lately. Good luck.

Jesse didn't go anywhere, she's fine.

Britney, I'm a little worried about this advocating of carrying handguns, and I tend to disagree. If the guy in the store wanted a piece of you he would have called the rest of his friends and they would have had a piece of you, gun or not. The other way it could have gone is just to not go into a shady Frys in a bad neighborhood at night.

Most ->-bleeped-<-s (us) aren't going to be trained as soldiers and police in their appropriate use, and would more than likely just be carrying the instrument of their own demise. When it comes to fight or flight, flight is usually the better option. Some situation one might find themselves in where their lives were saved by a firearm might be one they would not have put themselves in if they weren't armed.

this is actually good advice becca guns have a bad habit of escalating a situation that may have been escapable prior to the weopon being drawn. i carry because im required to carry and since i dont frequent bars that often its not a big issue for me. all i can say is if your going to carry please seek training in its use and what constitutes a legal shooting. most importantly never ever pull a weopon if you dont have the will to use it. if you cant conceive of ever taking a life dont get a gun it could be the tool the offender uses to put you in the ground.
jessica

Like I said, it is up to the individual to decide. I'm simply stating what I have decided to do. I agree with Jesse that you need to have training on any weapons you decide to carry. I also agree Becca that it is better to avoid situations rather than enter them just because you can. I usually do avoid problematic places such as that Fry's but there are times where that isn't feasible. I may have been low on gas that time and had to go there on the way to somewhere else. Sometimes things simply come up but I do agree that the more you minimize putting yourself in risky situations, the more likely you will not have problems. Unless you live in gated mansions with limousine shouffers to take you everywhere and armed bodyguards, you are never going to be in the best places 100% of the time.

Overall, I do encourage TG people to take responsibility for their safety as much as possible. However one decides to do that is up to him or her. I couldn't help but notice, however, that the last 200+ hate crime murders listed on the TDOR website did not include even one story where the victim had a handgun and fought back. I fully believe that some of these crimes could have been prevented had the victim had a gun handy. Many others could have been prevented by the victim making wiser decisions about who they were hanging out with that day/night. Some of the crimes involved an intruder forcing their way into the victim's home. Home defense is much easier when you have a gun than when you don't. I wish we were in a perfect world but we aren't.

All I know is that if some crazy person decides that I need to die for being who I am and is coming at me with a kitchen knife, take a wild guess on whether or not I would prefer to have a gun within arm's reach. While I do believe a minimum level of training is important, I think there is an over-emphasis on training by some people. Driving a car, swimming, and bowling are all far more difficult activities than firing a gun. Reading up on one's state laws, being aware of their surroundings, regular practice at a range, and simply using common sense should be sufficient. You don't need "FBI" training like they show in the movies.

Anyway, welcome back Jesse!

thanks britney i agree since being  our selfs puts us at risk far more readily then the average person i think we should consider protection my main point is insuring that if you are considering something that is or could be considered a lethal force weopon then please make sure what the laws are governing its use. Nothing would grieve me more then to show up at a shooting a transperson was involved in and have to arrest the trans person because the shooting was wrongful.
jessica

I guess I'll derail (and get back to the original post):

I think some of it depends on what you're looking for.  Jessica-- sounds like the guy wanted something that you didn't, so I think you made the right decision. 

I'm not sure I agree with everyone else that the guy was a sleaze, at least he was honest about what he wanted.  As a trans woman, that's actually pretty good-- you know he's not going to freak out if you decide to go home with him and he discovers that you're pre-op.  The surprise is what got Gwen Araujo killed (not that you'd be in the same situation, mind). 


I forget who said It's a shame he read you as a T. If he read you as a female he wouldn't be interested, that is the irony of it all.

but I've noticed that in gay clubs or bars that I get clocked a lot, and I pass (or at least I think I do) in pretty much every other situation.  It's a combination of height, build, voice and probably body language.  There's only so much you can do if you're really tall or whatever.  When I've been out, most of my friends ask me if I think whether such-and-such a person is trans-- it's usually just a masculine looking woman, though, and I've noticed that the tall girls tend to get singled out a lot. 

As for the come on-- that's totally something I expect in a gay bar.  I don't know why it is, but it seems like there's a lot more hooking up in gay bars than in straight ones.  I may be overgeneralizing there, but it fits my experience-- most of my straight friends go to hang out and drink.  My gay friends go to hang out, drink, and make out with strangers.  I wonder if it has something to do with knowing the people at the bar all bat for the same team and you don't have to worry about stepping all over someone's hetero-normative privilege. 

there's a lot more hooking up in gay bars than in straight ones

I think that's true in places were there are only one or two gay bars.  If you have gay neighborhoods you'll likely find a few of the same kind of tavern type establishments that every straight neighborhood has, but if you only have one it's going to be a meat market.  Lot's of straight bars like that too.

A response to the original point:

If a guy wants something between your legs that's not a vagina, he's a big mistake--perhaps a dangerous mistake--waiting to happen.  Make your regrets, and then keep your distance from him, but keep an eye out for him. 

The creepy alarm doesn't go off for no reason....

If a guy wants something between your legs that's not a vagina, he's a big mistake--perhaps a dangerous mistake--waiting to happen

Of course if all he wants is a vagina between your legs, your not a real girl, or even a lover, your just a life support system for a pussy.  Great alternative.

I can't believe you people are still ripping on that guy. It was a gay bar, presumably the meat market kind we discussed earlier. Transexuals are a pretty mixed group as far as our sexuality goes and well, you don't get what you want if you don't ask for it. I asked a professor to let me retake an exam last term, and rather than getting all weird and calling me a slacker student he listened to my reason why and made his decision. This is kind of the same concept just way kinkier...Being in a place like that can be construed as a sign that your'e looking. Give the poor guy a break, sheesh, his proposition was a little indecent but he's not the first douchebag out there and that doesn't make him psycho. My boyfriend once slapped my ass in a chinese restaurant and asked in a loud voice if I was going to "be his little slut" that night and I didn't draw a gun out of my purse and shoot him in the face.

and I didn't draw a gun out of my purse and shoot him in the face.

And you passed up on a chance like that?  Hell, I would have shot him twice.  Once for saying/doing that, and once more just for luck.

Ah, tekla, ever in touch with your femme side....

I agree Jesse. It is important to use common sense, know the laws, and especially avoid trouble if possible to begin with. Any action may have to be explained to a judge. This is why I try to hang out around better quality people in better quality establishments. It minimizes the risk of problems. When problems do arise, I try my best to de-escalate the situation as quickly as possible (i.e. if someone calls me a name I may pretend I didn't hear it). However, if a situation requires any type of force, it is important to know what level is allowed by law (i.e. if someone punches you in the face you can't shoot them but may be able to tase or mace him).

For everyone going out tonight for New Year's have a safe and happy night! Avoid problematic situations and if you drink too much, please don't drive. Happy New Year everyone. Britney

What's wrong with someone being attracted to your in between status?  Assuming, of course, that it's not a deciding factor.  Personality, beauty, and compatibility should take priority over anything else in attraction.  But, what's wrong with finding a man with whom you can enjoy a normal sex life with and function just like any other couple?  A man who completely respects and upholds your gender and your transition and can love you after surgery just the same.

It's as though any male who pursues relationships with transsexuals are automatically put in negative connotation with the term, "->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-."  Well, not all of them are that bad, just like not all guys are bad.  Sure there's tons of men out looking for just one thing, but that's something even biowomen have to contend with when they're seeking companionship, even when they're looking for something long term.

Jesse just managed to be approached by a complete douche-bag.  He could have just as easily been prince charming.  Not all guys who go clubbing are there to hook up, there's plenty there simply to dance and have a good time.

This is why I try to hang out around better quality people in better quality establishments.

I tried to do that.  Really I did.  But whatever threat to my safety was counterbalanced by the feeling that I was going to die of boredom instead.  Like Billy Joel said:
They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the sinners are much more fun...
you know that only the good die young

But if you have OK people skills, and a bit of (very rare) common sense, the world is not as dangerous as people make it out to be.  I know that all sorts of people think that New York City is some super dangerous place - that's the way it's depicted on TV, but in reality, when you consider the number of people who live there in relation to the crime rate, NYC is very safe.  Perhaps not out in Bed-Sty, and not for people who tend to create problems with other people everywhere they go, but for the majority.

heres an update on this thread i go to this club fairly frequently its not a big place but it stays busy enough that i can meet interesting people. For the most part i dont run into guys like the one this thread was about its usually gay men or lesbian women that i meet. the nice thing is even though im read fairly frequently there as i havnt finished laser/electro on my face and my voice isnt that good yet. i dont mind. (im actually read less on the street) the people are usually respectful and call me by my gender presentation. This guy was a novelty for me. In hind site if he hadnt been so verbal about my body parts in public i may have even left with him. So it remains to be seen if the next guy like him is a little more respectful ill have to think about it more. thanks for all the comments
jessica

jesse! what do you mean you get read?  If that really is you in the pix then you must hang around with Vulcans or similar trekkie-trash with microsocope vision.  You look great.  Hard to imagine you getting read frequently.  But like you say the G&Ls in the bars will treat you OK as you are no threat to their hunting.

i get read because im still new to transitioning i present well but as i and many others have come to learn its not just looks that keeps you from being read its manerisms voice and im sure a myrid host of other things i havent even learned yet. so in a club with glbt people who have a better understanding of trans then the average person it dosnt surprise me that i get read alot there. as i get more comfortable in myself it will probably decrease and im just reading whats on their faces as i said most of them call me by my gender presentation ive only had a couple here that were rude enough to say sir.
it still stings though when it happens
jessica

Just because they don't say it, or point it out, does not mean they don't know or don't suspect.  They might be very supportive of ->-bleeped-<-, they might just be being politically correct, they might not care enough to question it, they might be big city people who know better then to confront someone they consider off the deep end.  You can know peoples' behavior, but rarely, if ever, their intentions.

And yeah, people in a LGBT club are more exposed to it.  I know a lot of LGBT bars where they would know right off, because the non-trans women who come in there don't look that good, or pretty - ever.  I've been told by quite a few people that the hardest place to pass is San Francisco where 'spot the ->-bleeped-<-' is almost as much a sport as 'guess why the other people on the bus aren't allowed to drive cars.'  Again, its a matter of familiarity.

I mean I don't speak or read Japanese, Chinese, (Mandarin or Cantonese), Koren or Vietnamese - but by being around that most of my life, I can look at a sign and tell what it is, even in its English translation.  To someone who was raised in say Kansas and never seen any of that I'm pretty sure it all looks the same.  I'm even more sure that they would have an even harder problem guessing who is who, but again, familiarity brings you to the point of noticing those very fine details and differences, so you can tell if someone is Japanese or Chinese.  Someone like Barbie who was born and raised in Korea can probably tell from two blocks away.

Consider that despite all the 'do I pass' photos and questions about haircuts and all - most people can correctly guess gender from the back, a half a city block away just by the basic dimensions of the body.