I'm just going to go ahead and say that Tekla is right. There's not much difference between the redneck muslims who kill people and the redneck americans who, for the most part, don't - currently. Ours are just lazier and less willing to sack up and do what they believe in.

In case you missed it, the man who walked up to an abortion doctor in a crowded lobby and shot him in the face is being allowed to argue that it was"voluntary manslaughter" (AKA "Justifiable Homicide") versus premeditated murder 1. 5 year sentence, versus death/life in prison.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_abortion_shooting_trial;_ylt=AkoLgScNuWdzQ1XEReyWRBYUewgF;_ylu=X3oDMTNmb3M3Ym5jBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwMTEyL3VzX2Fib3J0aW9uX3Nob290aW5nX3RyaWFsBGNjb2RlA21vc3Rwb3B1bGFyBGNwb3MDNQRwb3MDNQRzZWMDeW5fdG9wX3N0b3JpZXMEc2xrA3NvbWVmZWFya2Fucg--

Quote from: Becca on January 10, 2010, 04:21:30 AM
Jon Stewart has a nightly show as well, and it's a hell of a lot funnier than David Letterman ever was. You should see how he mocks Glen Beck, oh my gawd it's awesome. Having never seen glen beck, I actually checked him out after seeing one of Stewarts parodies and...there wasn't much difference.

Beck is self-parodying. Just watch about a paragraph of his show and you know all there is to know. He's funny regardless.

Quote from: Maggie Kay on January 11, 2010, 11:05:40 PM
Laura,
I don't spend much time remembering all the plethora of things that Beck did. I do recall him joking about killing Nancy Pelosi by poison. He is far too much of a buffoon to waste any discussion on, the Jerry Springer of political journalists. I'll tell you what, let's let you win this one. He is the salt of the earth and the protector of American corporate democracy. Mind if we drop it now?

Kay

I wasn't even trying to change your mind about Beck - I'm pretty sure I'm the only one hear that doesn't think he's raving loon or a meglomaniac or both.

I just thought the particular instance you referenced was a classic example of what happens on line - on both sides - all the time.

To go back to a previous incident - openly wishing Limbaugh dead is perfectly understandable...obliquely referring to Obama's "days being short" is an outrage.

Or vice versa if you are on the other side.

the point wasn't "Beck is a saint" - the point was "Do you realize how ridiculous it sounds that with ALL the MULTITUDE of ways one can go after Beck, that ANYone thinks it's a good idea to use a photo shoot to prove Beck can cry on command?"

And yet, as ridiculous as that concept is, it floated all through the left-wing net blogosphere as if it were a perfectly reasonable concept.

It's what political discourse has sunk to in this country.

First rule of acting is: Once you learn to fake sincerity, the rest comes easy.  To the degree that people like Glenn and Rush are not reporters, not journalists, not analysts, but entertainers, then anything suspect about them is just doin' what comes naturally.  Fakin' it, is what they do.  As Glenn himself said in a New York Times interview: "if you take what I say as gospel, you're an idiot."

Quote from: tekla on January 12, 2010, 01:40:53 AM
First rule of acting is: Once you learn to fake sincerity, the rest comes easy.  To the degree that people like Glenn and Rush are not reporters, not journalists, not analysts, but entertainers, then anything suspect about them is just doin' what comes naturally.  Fakin' it, is what they do.  As Glenn himself said in a New York Times interview: "if you take what I say as gospel, you're an idiot."

I wonder if they actually care about what is ranted about... I mean they're ranting about the stupidest BS imaginable...

But are they faking most of it just to make a buck? I remember he was saying to like... Not buy gold or something, and was then on a commercial about buying gold from a company. Almost seems more like an attention whore than a partisan jerk. Either way, I hate him... Still.

I remember he was saying to like... Not buy gold or something, and was then on a commercial about buying gold from a company.

I think if you check, you'll find the rant is about dumping dollars for gold, then comes the gold commercial.  By the way, had you put everything into gold in 2000 you'd be pretty rich today. It was $300 an ounce in 2000, today it was selling for $1152.30. 

Laura,
I wasn't going to do this but I have some free time and I have questions about your views on LBGT rights.

One of the things I can't understand is why you defend Beck. You said that you watch him a lot. So you must be familiar with his views on LBGT.

He demonstrates that he is against us by homophobic mocking of Barney Frank. I have no problem with him being conservative and even being a comedian but he lets his bigotry show. Now, why do you want us to believe that he is worth watching? SHould we feel that this kind of mocking is justified? Do we deserve it?

http://www.newshounds.us/2009/03/31/beck_makes_gay_jokes_about_barney_frank.php

Or his position on Gay Marriage that it's really about "going into churches and attacking churches... Then you also have to go into the schools."
http://foxattacks.com/blog/?p=1264

So he promotes keeping many of us from marrying the person we love.  I am legally female, I cannot marry another woman if my wife dies or we divorce. It took us weeks to prove to the insurance companies that we are legally married after Prop 8. Beck supported Prop 8.

Why would you want to defend someone who is against your rights?

What about this interchange between Beck and Dobson of Focus on the Family:
http://www.exgaywatch.com/wp/2007/05/commentator-glen-beck-learns-not-to-cross-the-dobson/

Dobson is one of the most vocal Anti-gay pastors and Beck sucked up to him even when Dobson was clearly lying.

Again, another example of Beck siding with our enemies.  He is very influential and does affect the electorate to make our struggle harder to win.

Why do you support such a person?


Maggie

Quote from: tekla on January 12, 2010, 01:40:53 AM
First rule of acting is: Once you learn to fake sincerity, the rest comes easy.  To the degree that people like Glenn and Rush are not reporters, not journalists, not analysts, but entertainers, then anything suspect about them is just doin' what comes naturally.  Fakin' it, is what they do.  As Glenn himself said in a New York Times interview: "if you take what I say as gospel, you're an idiot."

As long as you think of Chris Matthews the same thing (on that score)  you think of Bill O'Reilly....
As long as you think of Olberman the same as you think of Beck...
As long as you think of Bill Mahr what you think of Ann coulter...

(and so forth)

then you will get no argument from me.

The ones that get me are the one who think Olberman and Michael Moore and the rest are founts of wisdom and the only idiotic, two-faced, self serving blowhards are on the right.

Quote
Almost seems more like an attention whore than a partisan jerk. Either way, I hate him...

Ditto.


(By the way, I don't include Stewart in the above simply because Stewart is the most clear of all that he's doing entertainment. while Beck admits it to a degree he does attempt a level of sincerity that Stewart never has to my knowledge)

When left wing mouthpieces loudly and repeatedly suggest that right wingers should be put to death, deported, tortured, and denied civil rights, you can compare the two. Not random ->-bleeped-<- bloggers on the internet, multi-million dollar media stars.

If you notice the ones that shout the loudest get the coverage,  or as my Dad use to say "The squeaky wheel gets the greats".

As long as they shout louder than we do, they will have the coverage and thus influence more minds.


Janet

Bill Mahar and Jon Stewart^* are entertainers, stand-ups, much like Lewis Black, that does not mean that on occasion they veer dangerously close to the truth, but we do live in an age where pretty much comedy is the only way to do social critiques also.  Of all of them I like Lewis Black the best, but he pretty much only does stand-up, so he is the least censored and scripted out of all of them.

Most of the other ones, the NBCCBSABC junk, they are even entertaining, they are just news readers, people who look good with good hair, and not much more, and what is covered on such programs has been bought and paid for not by liberals or by conservatives, but by large multi-national corporations who are only looking out for number one.  And number one ain't you.  You ain't even number two - as Frank Zappa wisely pointed out.

If you want real news (but you're not going to like it on many accounts, not the least of which is the truth is going to make you puke) watch Amy Goodman's Democracy Now! The War and Peace Report. She does not glam up, she is very plain looking, and doesn't care.  She never raised her voice, she speaks in a monotone, which is best for what she does, which is report facts, not talking points. And she not only does stuff in depth, she's not against using 50 of her 60 minutes to tell one story, for things like health care she did that for a week, including listing off which congresspeople got how much money from which health care industry lobbyists and extensive interviews with a guy who's previous job was the head of corporate communications at CIGNA.  Very interesting what he said about what the insurance companies were going to do.  You can watch it - it was filmed before the debate started, and how odd, he is spot-on.  She spent the last two nights doing coverage of the rise of right wing militias in the past year.

The show runs on the Pacifica System, and is broadcast on several PBS stations, but I bet where you are the only way you're going to see her in the South is on the webcasts and such. 

* and to the best of my knowledge, they never deny that.

Quote from: Laura91 on January 12, 2010, 10:51:40 PM
The way I see it, it doesn't matter if they are left, right, independent, etc, they all stink. The same goes for the politicians.

Now here's a position I can endorse, lol.

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Quote from: Autumn on January 12, 2010, 11:16:05 PM
When left wing mouthpieces loudly and repeatedly suggest that right wingers should be put to death, deported, tortured, and denied civil rights, you can compare the two. Not random ->-bleeped-<- bloggers on the internet, multi-million dollar media stars.

I know better than to ask but - who exactly has Beck or Rush or whoever called for executing, torturing, etc...apart from Terrorists?

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Post Merge: January 12, 2010, 11:59:06 PM

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QuoteBill Mahar and Jon Stewart* are entertainers

Mahar defines himself as a comedian but he certainly seems to take himself and his opinions damned seriously.

He's not joking when he's on Larry King telling you how screwed up the right wing is.

He's not joking when he's on Larry King telling you how screwed up the right wing is.c

Maybe it's because they are.  Just a thought.  But like I said above, I draw a very real distinction between the old line conservatives, and the neo-cons and the Xian Right.  The old country club, business class I at least understand where they are coming from.  And, despite the lip service given to the rest, as best as I can tell the Republican Party is still a collection of millionaires and rich guys one one hand, and total idiots on the other.  As I said, at least I know why the millionaires and rich guys are hanging out there.

Quote from: tekla on January 13, 2010, 12:17:26 AM
He's not joking when he's on Larry King telling you how screwed up the right wing is.c

Maybe it's because they are.  Just a thought.  But like I said above, I draw a very real distinction between the old line conservatives, and the neo-cons and the Xian Right.  The old country club, business class I at least understand where they are coming from.  And, despite the lip service given to the rest, as best as I can tell the Republican Party is still a collection of millionaires and rich guys one one hand, and total idiots on the other.  As I said, at least I know why the millionaires and rich guys are hanging out there.

Surely you aren't under the illusion that there are no rich guys who are Democrats?

That's a massive myth. In fact, there's as much or more major wealth in the Dem camp.

For just one example - take a look at Cokely's Washington fund raiser tonight. All the sponsors and hosts were....big Pharma and related interests.

the VERY people that Obama et al told us that Health Care Reform was supposed to be saving us from!

Seriously, the "party of the rich" canard is about as related to the real world of today as me calling the Democrats the party of segregation.

Bill Maher may define himself as a comedian but he's not funny.

Quote from: Jen on January 13, 2010, 10:20:16 AM
Bill Maher may define himself as a comedian but he's not funny.

Except in Religulous.

we do live in an age where pretty much comedy is the only way to do social critiques also.

And exactly which age was it that was all that different in that regard?

--

Seriously, the "party of the rich" canard is about as related to the real world of today as me calling the Democrats the party of segregation.

Wrong. The Republicans are still the party of the rich:



source

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Bill Maher may define himself as a comedian but he's not funny.

I define him as a jerk.

The real truth is simple, but its really only a game adults get to play.  I have always thought that real political maturity comes from knowing the moment that you realize that it's not about Republican or Democrat, Liberal or Conservative, Right or Left, but simply about right and wrong.

Because this is the simple and true fact.

You are delusional if you think that the American public determines one f#$king sentence of government policy. Argue all you want, you are wasting your breath because you truly don't count. Its about oil and money. The real power brokers just throw you bones to fight over so you think you are important (gay rights, crappy health care, kill the Muslims, Fox News, MSM etc) They laugh at Obama Sucks/Republicans Suck rhetoric because IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING and keeps you from THINKING about what's really going on.^*

We've been having this knock-down drag out fight over gay marriage that affects how many?  A very few?  But when it came to the largest bailout in the history of bailouts, well political campaigns were suspended, candidates rushed back, to all vote for this, without as much debate as your average group of five would have about what kind of pizza to order.  And that was BOTH campaigns.  That was BOTH parties.  That was the right and the 'left'.  They screwed you to the wall for the rich boys and the rich got what they wanted, which was to dump all this bad paper on you, and you can't even get treatment in a public hospital for a paper cut without paying up front, or having insurance, or being on welfare.  Pretty funny eh?


* - most of this was written by a friend of mine on FARK, and I could not write it any better, so I'm using it.

Quote from: tekla on January 14, 2010, 04:07:47 AM
The real truth is simple, but its really only a game adults get to play.  I have always thought that real political maturity comes from knowing the moment that you realize that it's not about Republican or Democrat, Liberal or Conservative, Right or Left, but simply about right and wrong.

Because this is the simple and true fact.

You are delusional if you think that the American public determines one f#$king sentence of government policy. Argue all you want, you are wasting your breath because you truly don't count. Its about oil and money. The real power brokers just throw you bones to fight over so you think you are important (gay rights, crappy health care, kill the Muslims, Fox News, MSM etc) They laugh at Obama Sucks/Republicans Suck rhetoric because IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING and keeps you from THINKING about what's really going on.^*

We've been having this knock-down drag out fight over gay marriage that affects how many?  A very few?  But when it came to the largest bailout in the history of bailouts, well political campaigns were suspended, candidates rushed back, to all vote for this, without as much debate as your average group of five would have about what kind of pizza to order.  And that was BOTH campaigns.  That was BOTH parties.  That was the right and the 'left'.  They screwed you to the wall for the rich boys and the rich got what they wanted, which was to dump all this bad paper on you, and you can't even get treatment in a public hospital for a paper cut without paying up front, or having insurance, or being on welfare.  Pretty funny eh?


* - most of this was written by a friend of mine on FARK, and I could not write it any better, so I'm using it.

Kat,

You have pointed out the elephant in the room. We cannot depend on elections because they are clearly rigged, our economy is in tatters, we have no manufacturing base, we will have a much poorer health care at even higher cost,our state governments are going bankrupt, local police budgets are being slashed while robberies skyrocket and we are buried in personal and national debt. The major engine of the economy is Finance instead of manufacturing.

Who did this? Both parties and both parties continue to do it.  We are screwed and I only hope that most people don't figure it out because it will be horrible when they do.

Maggie

Quote from: Kara-Xen on January 13, 2010, 06:50:50 PM
Except in Religulous.

I haven't seen it, but I do think that the irony of a dogmatic proselytizing atheist has potential for some laughs, however unintentional.

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Yep both parties can be held accountable for the bumpy ride ahead of us, though this last administration which decided we should fight two wars while reducing taxes(!) and figured they should deregulate aspects of Wall St. that needed more policing if anything while they were mucking about... Omg!

Oh well if you have to go out, ya might as well do it in spectacular fashion, right? We have so many mind-boggling challenges ahead, all of which seem to be converging toward an epic collision this decade. It should be fascinating to watch!

If you really want to be depressed, watch this:
www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse

I am a pretty skeptical person, but I really can't find much fault in anything he presents there, even though I call it the "Chicken Little" video.