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Am I the only guy in the history of Ftmdom to not pass after 9 months?

Started by Nero, January 13, 2010, 03:02:34 PM

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Nero

I mean, this is getting ridiculous. Still ma'amed more often than not. (happened just a second ago) I've tried all different haircuts and clothing styles, I've obvious beard shadow, masculine figure, sirred consistently on the phone, all these changes on T, hell there's an M on my license! And people still ma'am me even after seeing it.

Really not looking for any tips or anything. I've tried everything. It happens on first sight when people have not had time to observe any mannerisms or voice or anything, so I know it's my appearance. Not to mention I've always been chided for masculine mannerisms/walk/expressions etc as a female so I highly doubt it's that. At this point, I'm just hoping that I'll continue to masculinize and one day be seen as male. I've never heard of anyone taking this long though.

So, yeah this is a bit of a rant and a question - has anybody heard of this before? am I doomed?
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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myles

There are days that I pass less now than before T. It is semi annoying, but I just blow it off most of the time. I think cutting my hair too short was a mistake, so will be growing it back out. SOrry to hear it happens so much and yes it sucks!
Myles
"A life lived in fear is a life half lived"
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maidenprincess

Awww Nero, I'm so sorry this is happening to you.  I can't imagine how painful that can get hearing all the time.

I'm probably going to get made fun of for this, but is there something like FFS for FTM?  Let's see, it'd be... FMS?  That could give you some masculine features in your face?  Flame me for this but I figure if it's something that T just hasn't and may not ever fix, that could be an option?   ???
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Adio

Quote from: Maiden on January 13, 2010, 03:17:02 PM
Awww Nero, I'm so sorry this is happening to you.  I can't imagine how painful that can get hearing all the time.

I'm probably going to get made fun of for this, but is there something like FFS for FTM?  Let's see, it'd be... FMS?  That could give you some masculine features in your face?  Flame me for this but I figure if it's something that T just hasn't and may not ever fix, that could be an option?   ???

I've heard of that before.  I'm not sure it has a name though.  Like, chin implants.  I've thought about it actually as I have a weakish chin that can give me away sometimes if I'm not careful.

Sorry about getting ma'amed, Nero.  You're probably not the only one though.  Other guys just might not talk about it.  I got a collective "ladies" today when eating lunch with my friends.  It sucked.  :(
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tekla

I'm not sure what the professional take on it is, but the amateurs says it all about three things.  1. Attitude.  2. Attitude.  3. Attitude.

It's like walking into a place and just knowing who is the boss.  Not that screaming, yelling yahoo.  Not the guy wham, bam shouting like a Southern diplomat.  It's the person who in every way, in every movement, in every thing they say just simply, plainly and in no uncertain terms, says 'in charge.'

Real bosses are not like the Dabney Coleman character in 9 to 5, they are far more like Merle Streep in The Devil Wears Prada, and people playing the game know that.

So work on projecting that attitude so that it's in the room before you even walk in.  That might help.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Ms Jessica

What tekla said. 

I think this is the second or third time I've done that this week.  should I be worried?  ;)

But seriously, the attitude is important.  It is for me to pass as a girl, and it's got to be just as important as a guy (I'd say that it was, but most of it was subconscious because I'd been socialized that way, so that makes it quite a bit different than learning how to act in my gender of identity).   
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Arch

I know one guy who says he took a full year to "pass" consistently. But he came out of the lesbian community. I was thinking--and he recently agreed with me--that he took a long time to shake off his lesbian heritage. He dressed the same--"like a dyke," he says--and apparently retained a lot of tells, physical habits, that tend to be read as female. He may have had a lot of masculine butch mannerisms, but maybe they weren't manly mannerisms. He spent most of his time among women, so maybe he soaked up a lot more female body language and style than he realized at the time.

I also know of a couple of other guys who are more than a year on T who are still ma'amed sometimes, but neither one has had top surgery. And I know one guy who is consistently read as a butch female, but T did not seem to do much for him, especially his voice. It sounds like you have the voice, so it's probably something else.

I suggest that you dissect yourself and see if you can track down anything specific that would tend to suggest femaleness. Maybe make a video and study yourself talking. Think about what kind of clothing you wear. How do you walk? Does your body take up space? Do you pack? (It can help you a little psychologically.) Has your face become more angular yet? It takes time for that to occur.

As Tekla and Jessica have said, attitude can take you a LONG way. It could be all you need. So, are you worried that people won't read you right? Are you hesitant, unsure of yourself? You can fake the confidence until it comes more naturally.

But it doesn't hurt to look at the physical side as well.

Post Merge: January 14, 2010, 01:58:45 AM

Quote from: Jessica L. on January 14, 2010, 01:18:52 AM
I think this is the second or third time I've done that this week.  should I be worried?  ;)

"Be afraid. Be very afraid." But then, I agree with Tekla, too.
"The hammer is my penis." --Captain Hammer

"When all you have is a hammer . . ." --Anonymous carpenter
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Myself

Put a photo, maybe we can give you some tips. Other than that, T can still do quite a lot after only 9 months. Men still change up to their 30s.
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tekla

"Be afraid. Be very afraid." But then, I agree with Tekla, too.

Yeah, I get that so much I have a 17 Step Program to cure you of it.  But then again, the One Step Program (have sex with me) has seemed to cure most people right off.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Arch

Quote from: tekla on January 14, 2010, 02:23:51 AM
Yeah, I get that so much I have a 17 Step Program to cure you of it.  But then again, the One Step Program (have sex with me) has seemed to cure most people right off.

Oh, boy. I must have had a long day. I was laughing so hard I just about...well, never mind.
"The hammer is my penis." --Captain Hammer

"When all you have is a hammer . . ." --Anonymous carpenter
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Janet_Girl

Without seeing a new pic or hearing your voice.  It is hard to tell, but attitude is everything.  Trying different attitude.  "Be the Boss", "Royal Pain in the A$$", "Bad boy".  Something different.

But I still love you, Hon.
Janet
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Jamie-o

That sucks, Nero.  But then, it's only in the last 3 weeks or so that I've started passing with any regularity, myself.  As I recall, you and I started T a few days apart.  I have known a couple guys in a similar position.  One of them didn't start passing until he had been on T for almost 2 years.  Now he comes off as totally gay (which, fortunately, he is  :D) but completely male.  The other guy had been on T for about a year and a half when I met him, and although he did have the stubble, his voice was pretty high still, and he had a very feminine jaw-line.

I think part of the problem that those of us who transition later in life face is that we can't really pass as teenagers, which is what most of the younger guys are actually passing for in that first year or so.
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sneakersjay

Quote from: Jamie-o on January 15, 2010, 05:57:54 AM
I think part of the problem that those of us who transition later in life face is that we can't really pass as teenagers, which is what most of the younger guys are actually passing for in that first year or so.

Yes, this.  I think the only thing that helped me was getting rid of my female junk, so T wasn't fighting against the estrogen. But I know that's not an option for some.  Patience, my friend.  (easy to say, hard to do, as patience is NOT one of my strong suits!!)

Jay


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icontact

Quote from: tekla on January 13, 2010, 03:28:11 PMMerle Streep in The Devil Wears Prada,

LOVE HER.

And it's probably just a matter of time. Patience! :)
Hardly online anymore. You can reach me at http://cosyoucantbuyahouseinheaven.tumblr.com/ask
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Arch

Quote from: sneakersjay on January 15, 2010, 07:23:25 AM
Yes, this.  I think the only thing that helped me was getting rid of my female junk, so T wasn't fighting against the estrogen.

Come to think of it, one thing that may have helped me was that I had already reached menopause.
"The hammer is my penis." --Captain Hammer

"When all you have is a hammer . . ." --Anonymous carpenter
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deviousxen

Maybe they just recognize you from before. That and you live in a stupid place maybe?

Its weird. I'll pass in certain places. I mean, I usually don't and or people slip up regardless...

Maybe try doing a test. Going somewhere totally out of state with the most facial hair possible, so its fresh people. Like visit Silent Hill and ask the fine people there. Oh wait, those want your flesh...
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rejennyrated

Hi Nero

Sorry to come late to this party, but here is a bit of hopefully helpful input from the dark side.

Like others have said, visual appearance is of course a part of this but I'm sure it also comes down in part to the way one projects ones inner mental state. If you look at the photo in my Avatar you will see Alison, my partner and I. (she is the blonde). In many respects Alison has a better figure than me, almost perfect shape fantatstic legs, and great looks given that she is over ten years my senior.

I by contrast make minimal effort with my appearance. yet whilst my success rate in pretty well 100% Alison's is probably only 85 or 90% - still pretty good but irritating given that, by purely visual means she is by far the more convincing.

So what is the difference. Mainly I would say deep inner core belief and perhaps a subtle difference in subconscious conditioning. I, by immense good fortune, having largely grown up in my desired gender never doubt that I AM female. Not only do I take it forgranted that people will recognise that, but because of the way I was drilled at school I probably also subconsciously send out matching non verbal signals.

For example because of my social class, I had to go through deportment classes, and learn proper "decorum". I was treated, in many ways, more strictly by my parents, was more protected than my male friends, and perhaps allowed less early freedom. Somehow that level of belief and programming does project itself.

By contrast Alison, who transitioned later in life, had a career in which she was drilled to project male self-confidence and strength. As a result she has tacitly accepted that she will occasionally get mistaken, so indeed she does.

In part it's a bit like pulling onself up by ones own bootlaces. In order not to be misread one has to get into the mental zone where subconsciously one is absolutely confident, which of course is a catch 22 when you aren't always making the grade.

But I have absolutely no doubt that you will get there.
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Evan

I know it's discouraging but try not to let it bother you. The cashier at McDs called me ma'am last week... while I was sporting full on 2 day old stuble and a chin strap! (granted I'm not on T yet so I still do have the girly voice) So I just sir'd her back... Needless to say she got the point.
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