i am very, very feminine looking and i feel like an idiot when i try to show how i feel inside, and dress in men's clothing. it's as if.. i am so pretty l that i simply look like a woman in men's clothing. i feel as if people stare at me and think i'm just a tomboy or lesbian - not that i have any issue with either, of course, that just isn't who i am. it's really freaking irritating and i'm not sure how to fix it? i think a huge part of it is psychological - i've seen myself in the mirror as a woman for x amount of years and now i still just see a woman in men's clothing.. it's quite frustrating and any tips would be greatly appreciated.

When you wear womens clothes and look in a mirror what do you see? Do you see a woman or a man trying to get out? No matter how feminine you think you look there will always be a bio guy just as feminine. We can't all be massive macho guys(tho i wish i was) and its a case of accepting yourself as you are, maybe working with what you've got as  in exercising building up etc, and learning to be happy with the person looking back at you from that mirror

I kinda know what u mean...I mean a lot of the time people only think i'm a guy if I tell them...a lot of people still mam me when I'm out shopping.  It hurts, but it does get better...some good advise I've gotten not too long ago is just be yourself and don't try too hard and everything will fall into place

I know what you mean, except I'm not pretty.  I used to be pretty when I made an effort to be.  Now though I just look female, undeniably so.  When I first started dressing full time I saw myself sometimes as a girl in men's clothing but now I don't see it like that anymore.  I really see me. 

Unfortunately no-one else does.  Like yesterday someone on my football team (a ladies' team, I can't bring myself to give up just yet) said that I look like La Roux (a female singer) with my haircut.  I said 'actually I asked the hairdresser to make it like David Tennant's' and she just laughed at me     That annoyed me a bit, because now I do see myself as a guy with a guy's cut but she sees me as a girl with a girl's cut.  You see? 

Agh we just have to wait for our HRT, not really another solution.

eli

Can you not just be yourself?

I apologise if that's simplistic. Please let le explain.

Setting aside surgical transition for a moment, you know what you want from your life and you know how you want to present yourself to the world and be treated.

Wear the clothes you feel comfortable in. Relate to yourself what you are and simply expect the world to respond.

I say this with great respect. You are a gentic female and females in western society have a lot more freedom to express themselves.

Express yourself for what you are. Cut your hair short. Find support clothes that don't enhance your cleavage. Wear trousers and shoes.

Live up to your own expectations of yourself and not society's.

If others don't like it, it's their loss. You must know by now that a pretty girl has more freedom than anyone else. OK, so you have the wrong body, but use that wrong body to your advantage.

I dunno Spacial.  I think Eli is FtM and probably doesn't want to hear about pretty girls' freedom etc.  (By the way I used to be a fairly pretty girl and I didn't find it very free.  Most the time it was pretty degrading because you can't go anywhere without being seen as a sex object).  I dn't know about using the wrong body to your 'advantage'.  It feels like a hell of a disadvantage to me no matter how society might feel about it!

Eli, you have freedom to express yourself, just as Spacial says that doesn't mean you have to identify as a female.  As Spacial says, do it for yourself, not others. 

That is understood.

I'm really just trying to make the point that, society makes such a stupid fuss ovver something that is none of their business.

There are few of us who have not had our lives disrupted by this obscession society has for our personal lives.

Eli has one attribute that can make society go weak at the knees.

In all honesty, is are one of us who would find any moral or principaled objection of wacking society at it weakest point.

Personally, I think it would be rather fun. Certainly give me a good laugh. Hopefully, Eli can see the potential for humour as well.

---

Post Merge: January 25, 2010, 11:23:11 AM

---

Been having  tink and that last post sounded like I'm really bitter at society.

We are part of society. It's as much up to each of us to stand against intolerance. To support individualism for everyone, not just those that meet with our apporval.

Blaming society for my ills is just a way of not taking responsibility.

I think I was doing that. I'm sorry society. Love ya really.

Quote from: Alessandro on January 25, 2010, 05:05:56 AMUnfortunately no-one else does.  Like yesterday someone on my football team (a ladies' team, I can't bring myself to give up just yet) said that I look like La Roux (a female singer) with my haircut.  I said 'actually I asked the hairdresser to make it like David Tennant's' and she just laughed at me     That annoyed me a bit, because now I do see myself as a guy with a guy's cut but she sees me as a girl with a girl's cut.  You see? 

Haha, I got the La Roux thing from a co-worker when I first cut my hair. I had no idea who that was at the time. But it seems she's known for being androgynous, and even chose to use the male French pronoun in the name.

Most people who like you probably won't tell you "you look like a man", 'cause that would be pretty offensive to most women. So I figure being told "You look androgynous" is the next best thing to hear from somebody you aren't yet 'out to', at this point!

Quote from: Banf on January 25, 2010, 12:34:10 PM
Haha, I got the La Roux thing from a co-worker when I first cut my hair. I had no idea who that was at the time. But it seems she's known for being androgynous, and even chose to use the male French pronoun in the name.

Most people who like you probably won't tell you "you look like a man", 'cause that would be pretty offensive to most women. So I figure being told "You look androgynous" is the next best thing to hear from somebody you aren't yet 'out to', at this point!

Oh really?  I didn't know that about La Roux, I didn't even really know who she was I was just annoyed she was a girl.  You make a good point, I feel better about it now   

yes, i realize that i need to "just be myself" but that (as i'm sure you all know) is much easier said than done. i also know that this is for me, not for others. but it's just ridiculously frustrating, especially when i KNOW that i'm not passing even a little. i mean, ive just started so i know i'm not going to look proper right away.. but still. i'm so damned impatient. execpt for "be yourself" and other tai chi stuff i don't know what to do. and really, my biggest frustration is not with being seen as a woman but that IIIII feel uncomforatble knowing that i'm not... what i know i'm supposed to be. i don't know. it sounds stupid. i just feel weird.

ugh. idk. thanks for the support though, y'all. it's really helpful

While I've never been feminine, looking or acting, I think we all can understand where you're coming from. I definately feel that the hardest part of transitioning is the psychological aspects of it. Best advice I could give Eli, if you haven't already start the process to becoming outwardly who you feel you are inside, then start and everything else will fall into place. If you know you are a man, then you are one, regardless of how you look outwardly to yourself or others.

Quote from: i'm eli on January 25, 2010, 09:19:10 PM
yes, i realize that i need to "just be myself" but that (as i'm sure you all know) is much easier said than done. i also know that this is for me, not for others. but it's just ridiculously frustrating, especially when i KNOW that i'm not passing even a little. i mean, ive just started so i know i'm not going to look proper right away.. but still. i'm so damned impatient. execpt for "be yourself" and other tai chi stuff i don't know what to do. and really, my biggest frustration is not with being seen as a woman but that IIIII feel uncomforatble knowing that i'm not... what i know i'm supposed to be. i don't know. it sounds stupid. i just feel weird.

ugh. idk. thanks for the support though, y'all. it's really helpful

Humans don't come with an instruction manual.  There's no right way to do anything. You just try something out, then modify it for next time.

When I was a teenager and still trying to be a man, like most teenagers, I tried various sneers, foul language, spitting, (TIP: spit stains down your front don't look cool), hands in pockest, hands outside.

Then there's loud laughing, lauging at other's misfortunes, sport, cars, and so on.....

If you don't make mistakes, you'll never learn anything.

It isn't about being like everyone else, it's about finding yourself.

Then, when you know who you are, you can start looking for someone else.

QuoteIf you know you are a man, then you are one, regardless of how you look outwardly to yourself or others.

i really like how you put this, thanks.
thanks, all of you. things haven't changed much but i suppose it'll take time. i went on a shopping spree, and am feeling better. besides, my fiancé says that i am a beautiful man, and that's all that matters to me