*sigh* I don't know WHY I'm finding it so hard to accept myself!!! I'm cool with my MtF mate. I'm cool with our MtF friends. I'm cool with you guys here...but *me* Nope. Freak, spawn of satan, self mutilating...on and on.

So this all started when I got my STP today. (It's my first one) I was in gender angst, emo, anger today. Then I got the STP in the mail and I've been giddy, giggly, happy all evening. (except for the unacceptance of self moments...)

As far as actually transitioning goes...I don't have breast issues in the sense that I feel the need or even want for a flat chest. I don't. I'm actually not ok with the look of an FtM chest when applied to myself. I'd like a breast reduction because DDDs are rediculous....

There's this voice in the back of my head that started out really quietly...and as I igored it, and ignored it, and shoved it back...it's gotten louder and louder..."I WANT T." But why!?

Naturally I have high T for a natal woman. So it's been suggested that I suppress my T so that I can have a normal cycle and all that good jazz. The more I think about that....the more unappealing that seems to me. At the same time I still don't feel like a man...when I look at natal men I wonder...why on earth would I want to be like them? But then again...when I look at other natal women I don't really act or think or behave like them either.

As a pagan I ask myself...why, when I'm the avatar of the Goddess-a great blessing-would I want to give that up!! (which may not be how all pagans see it, probably not even...but it's where I'm at at this moment) On my way home from work today I started thinking about the Gods instead of mortal men. I thought....maybe being like them wouldn't be so bad. Thoughtful, analytical, smart, strong....

So I just wonder if there are others who have transitioned to...the middle.

(Yes I'm in therapy, yes I'll be talking to my therapist more about these thoughts. We've discussed them some. She's of the oppinion that all the answers are inside me. Ugh)

Hey-o phx_rising, since I can't really relate to where you're coming from (being a nullgender/neuter - whatever they like to stamp) I figured I'd go through some old forum posts since what you describe has been described by others. However, most helpful will probably be to let you do a bit of digging yourself since you know best what applies to your situation and what doesn't.

This used to be a sticky and was set up by Ken/Kendra back in 2007. It hasn't been updated recently, but I still find it a useful FAQ.

I don't consider what I am doing a 'transition'. It is more an emergence. I think androgynes metamorphosis into something entirely new and uniquely themselves.

I think you want to feel more authenticly yourself. You will find a way to do that. This talking about it is part of that process.

I'm taking anti-androgens and it feels right for me. I don't know why that is but I like to think of it as being a better mix for my brain. My brain is tuned for bio fuel mixes, not straight oil derived gass. The rattles and knocks are gone, I'm cleaner and more efficient and have more power. I positively purr along now. I think a bit more estrogen would make things even better. Perhaps you just need a better mix of fuel too. Just be clear about what you would want to achieve with it.

I understand what you are saying  and in many ways feel the same way I'm transitioning to both and class myself as M2IS (Male to Intersex) transgender, unfornitualy finding transitioning infomation that isn't binary is quite hard and finding medical profesionals who will take you seriously is even harder I've also seen people whom I respected make comments on how It is wrong for people to class themselves as M2IS on a forum for non binarys

Hi...
    Yes very hard . not knowing where you are . more so when & how you are or were brought up . being told what others said you were because you had certain bits or lack of . so it takes time . for me 50 years ,& then an other 7 years to really know i was on the right track . just was not on the right one ,on the siding ,then a few bits of info . then every thing made sence .
  Im both m & f . simple yet that had to come from deep in side of me . being in the middle having the mind of both is right for me .

     i enbrace both so for some one to ask what am i, will they understand most people wont or cant . hey thats okay . well some of us are really different . my dress code is female as a woman . & people accept that . & some know me well enough to know my back ground . i dont hide that . its there for all to see .

  so give your self time . dont try & be some thing or some one that is not really you . just live & enjoy your self . get to know your self . & when the time is right you will know . dont let other s tell you different .   because that will get you down .
   This is a part of my back ground . i did my training over 6 years as a builder . & when i came out did i know it all .  no , i learnt more . as i went on , i enjoyed what i did . & still do after 40 odd years of .

  Now can i teach you in 5 min s what took me 6 years to learn & then  get to where i am now , no
So i look at my life & see the changes ,
   if i had been say 20 or 30 years ago what i am now i would have missed out on so much of my life & i would not have been ready like i was 11 years ago . to be the real me in the way i am now thats why it took so long ,
  what i m saying is dont push the panic button .its not time yet .  you ll know when it s right ,

   ...noeleena...

Thank you all for your kind thoughts and support. I really appreciate it. Slowly but surely I'm dipping my toes in the water....not so bad.
I'm shedding the unacceptance of self as quickly as I can manage...which may appear a snails pace, but it's what I can do.

My mate and I were talking on the way home from the dentist a few days ago and I was airring what I was feeling about my gender. Most of the time..I like my breasts. I can even enjoy them. I definitly like my down stairs area...the only problem is I feel it's missing something. A rather male something.

I'd like to present male...but my lack of desire to remove my breasts all together makes that....confusing, difficult....and down right scary. I am a gender ->-bleeped-<-. Slowly but surely...I'm even starting to accept that. I'd love a fuzzy face, a fit body, smaller breasts and a larger clit. That would be ideal. I can achieve that with Testosterone. I just...don't know that I SHOULD. I don't know how I'd work. I don't know how I'd pass. What would I pass AS?

I wonder if I ever do start T....will I continue to feel this way about my gender? Or would that tip the scales and make me want to go all the way male. "All the way male" really would just be the desire to lop off the breasts. That's all it would take for me to go from my current position of gender queer to FtM. That's pretty close. Oy.

I saw these pictures of before and after chest reconstruction....it was so odd to me....these FtM men...a number of them had very hairy chests, but in their before pictures they still had breasts. So they had hairy breasts. The after pictures....that scar....I know that the men who have chest reconstruction are SO happy, and I'm happy for them!!! But...I don't want that for me I don't think. I find my breasts sensual, even sexy sometimes. Just at their current size I find them...balloon like. Cartoonish. Over sized and ridiculous. But I don't take issue with my breasts....as breasts. That's not the problem.

Binding long term and daily has health risks associated. Well documented and well known. So...I don't think...with breasts...that I'd ever be able to pass male.

In the tiny town we live in I refuse to do any sort of transitioning....except maybe a test run of T to see if that's REALLY where I want to go. Every one knows me in this town. I work in the hub of the town! Yesterday my mate and I were out and about and I ran into two of my coworkers, one of my ex clients and my grandmother! I can NOT be growing a beard in this town!! I can't. I just...I can't.

Maybe I should be stronger, maybe I should stand tall but....no. Not me, not here.

My thoughts though....are surrounding a gel. T is normally administered weekly via shot. That's alot of roller coaster. I've had hormone shots before and I don't think that sort of fluxuation is good for me. Not to mention you start transitioning rather rapidly (compared..) the gel however is a lower dose. And it's a daily dose. So I would change very slowly.....just thoughts I'm kicking around.

*kicks society* Stupid gender rules. I don't WANT to live by the binary......

I think it's only good that you're giving it this much thought and are holding yourself back to rush into anything. Frankly, there's all the time in the world and its yours to take when it comes to decisionmaking. T would effect/affect you in ways that are irreversable... Perhaps it's an idea to try and portray yourself close to your 'perfect' appearance (you'd want to achieve) by using artificial products first, walk around like that for a while (during holidays, a weekend, whatsoeve - but non stop a.k.a. 'fulltime').

Though that might be a silly suggestion to someone who's bigendered, if I'm not mistaking

Ah, and there's always the option of breastsize reduction, but yup; costs quite a bit if it doesn't fall under insurance.

It's a question I've asked myself more than once before: how do I as an androgyne transition? Mostly, I've been trying to pull off an ambiguous presentation with clothing choices, hair styling, and a nearly total eradication of facial and body hair.

Ideally, I'd do something about my anatomy. But, what? What I think would be the ideal physical appearance would be considered freak-dom by most others I know. I don't mind the penis and testicles; I'd keep those. But, I'd like breats, a more feminine jaw-line and hips. At least, that's what I usually think I want. It changes from day to day.

I know what you mean about thinking of yourself as a freak, yet totally accepting of other transpeople. I'm still not completely convinced I'm not a freak! I don't exactly have the desire to be 'all man' like some trans guys do, but I don't want to be a chick, either. I just want to be ME and be comfortable with myself. What I feel is "ME" just happens to be a somewhat feminine GUY.
I think that's what I struggled with the most, I don't want to be a manly man. Right now I'm kind of in between as a chick, and I'm very comfortable being somewhere in between, I just want to be somewhere in between as a guy instead.
I've hated my breasts since the moment they started growing and just wanted them to go away, and by the time I was like 15 or so, I knew wanted to get a breast reduction one day. I wanted to be like an A, I felt that would be plenty big enough for me! I never wanted these things and I felt like I could deal with them a lot better if they were small! Now, I do like the idea of having them chopped off and made to look more male, but like you said, the scars are pretty bad and I'm not sure it would really be right for me. Even though I'll have scars either way, so I don't know.


One thing I've learned from a few years of back and fourth in my head, it's a LOT less about "being female", "being male", "being trans enough", or whatever, and all about "BEING YOURSELF"! Some people are very close to one end of the spectrum, but there's also some that kind of hang around the center, and I think we tend to confuse ourselves way more than we need to while trying to fit ourselves into societies little boxes!

Quote from: colormyworld on February 01, 2010, 12:05:33 AM
One thing I've learned from a few years of back and fourth in my head, it's a LOT less about "being female", "being male", "being trans enough", or whatever, and all about "BEING YOURSELF"! Some people are very close to one end of the spectrum, but there's also some that kind of hang around the center, and I think we tend to confuse ourselves way more than we need to while trying to fit ourselves into societies little boxes!

This!!^^^

I see androgyne as being whatever I want to be. I'm making my own box. I may be making some changes that go along with "standard FtM procedure", but it doesn't mean that my desired end point is to be male.  It's to be something close, but definitely not male.  Just because my preferred appearance, and in some sense perceived gender, is what many would consider male, I'm often pegged as being just trans. 

I see it as balancing out the female side.

Androgyns don't have to transition, they just have to find a way to be, sadly without drugs or medical intervention, that road is for our steps alone.

Quote from: tekla on February 01, 2010, 05:21:56 PM
Androgyns don't have to transition, they just have to find a way to be, sadly without drugs or medical intervention, that road is for our steps alone.

It isn't an easy road to travel, however, it is the road I'm on. I'm glad to have occasional company of other androgynes.

Z

as a transitioning Androgyne/genderqueer I understand your struggles

I know that when I present as my true self I Look like a freak I get enough strange looks and giggles to know I look funny but if I'm bringing Joy &Happyness to the world then that can only be a good thing IMHO but if you want to fit in and be normal then maybe  a non binary transation is not for you. 

In some ways I can relate to this. For the most part I just go by the definition of 'FtM' because so many goals overlap, but it isn't really the 'correct' term, because I feel that my trans identity just IS, and that my destiny is to fall somewhere in between. If I woke up tomorrow morning completely male, with male junk and hairy he-man features, my goal would then be to feminize. Seeing as to how I wake up every morning with just about the opposite, my goal is to masculinize- I need to push to the other side. Right now I'm taking testosterone- but to be honest, I think that if I masculinize on it a whole ton, I'll eventually embrace ways of feminizing my appearance to balance that out as well. I feel somehow invalid knowing that I want top surgery, but that afterwards I'd probably invest in a set of breast forms to fill a bra for rare occasions where I feel like wearing one... I do think that my need to be masculine appearing stems from being female at birth, not because I 'should've been male', but because I need to be somewhere in between. So wherever I'd've started, I would've needed to push one way or the other. As far as finding doctors to take me seriously... I didn't even want to touch that, it's hard enough finding one who deals with ->-bleeped-<-s at all, much less 'esoteric breeds' of transidentified people. I went in and told them what they wanted to hear; man trapped in a woman's body, that whole deal, to make sure I'd be taken seriously medically. It's a 'cop-out', but the safest bet for me, being someone who just doesn't have the money to risk a therapist 'not getting it'. I went in there for T, said what I knew would get me the T, more or less, got the letter and jumped ship, pretty much.

Quote from: Cairus on February 07, 2010, 11:39:46 PM
In some ways I can relate to this. For the most part I just go by the definition of 'FtM' because so many goals overlap, but it isn't really the 'correct' term, because I feel that my trans identity just IS, and that my destiny is to fall somewhere in between. If I woke up tomorrow morning completely male, with male junk and hairy he-man features, my goal would then be to feminize.

Ditto!! If I was born male, I'd want to feminize myself (just not to the point of looking female, just feminine male). Just like if I end up getting too hairy when I can finally get on T, I fully plan on buying stock in Nair if need be!! ha All I want is just to cross to the male side, like if 100% female girly girl was 0 and 100% male manly man was 10, I only really want to be like a 6. I think that's where I'd feel most comfortable!! :]

And as strange as it may seem, I could totally see myself dressing in a skimpy ladies' halloween costume once I can still look male while doing it! Call me strange, but I do enjoy some forms of femininity, just don't quite enjoy expressing them as a female! heh

-Aidan