hey, first of all my english is not so good, so please be kind 
is androgynity a real gender identity disorder or is it just a word, which describes a feeling?
does anyone of you transitioned in a way that people would notice? for the "male" androgyns... do you lose weight or something like this. some changes that are not only mental but also in your bodily image, so that people would say "why are you doing this?".
and if you do so... what do you tell the people in your surriundings like your family or good friends.
this question is directed to those who feel androgyn.
thanks for your answers

No it is not a disorder, but it does describe a gender identity, a way of appearing or a feeling. But some of us would be classified as having GID (gender identity disorder).

I've kind of moved into more female realms but I take homones and dress in womens clothing.

Quite a few of the andros here make changes that others would notice. One has a beard and dresses in womens clothing, another member had SRS to create androgynous genetalia, hair cuts, jewlery, clothing....

I tell them I am transgendered, this is how I feel, how I have felt for a long time, that I am not male.

Hey there lucaluca,

First off; I think your English gets you by pretty good since I had no problems understanding your question.

Androgyne is a gender identity, but you could say there's different categories. In other words: there's a lot of different androgynes and it's their feelings that seperates them from each other (but they still have the same identity).
There are androgynes who feel they fall in the middle of the gender spectrum; they're not male, they're not female, but rather ; their a mixture of both. On the other side there's androgynes who feel they're both male and female (percentage wise: 100% and 100% so not 40% female and/or 60% male - nope the full monty). And of course there's those who feel they fall completely outside the binary (female/male) spectrum, best way to describe those is; non gendered or null gendered. These are only some examples, there's quite a few more; feelings, after all, can often not be categorised.

Now when it comes to transitioning this can vary for each individual, but what I think you're aiming at is androgynes who desire to look more androgynous. According to the dictionary that can mean the following:

1.    being both male and female; hermaphroditic.
2.    having both masculine and feminine characteristics.
4.    neither clearly masculine nor clearly feminine in appearance

The first definition is disputed, and you'll find at these forums that androgyne is not used as a term to define a hermaphrodite, in fact: the term used for the old 'hermaphrodite' is intersexed. However, in terms of transitioning there are those who transition to intersexed... And there's those who transition to have both masculine and feminine characteristics (definition 2) which can involve hormones, top-surgery etc. The last is probably the most popular definition in popculture: not clearly female or male. In terms to transition this can be a light varient; a haircut, clothing style, but there are also those who desire to remove all sexual characteristics from their body.

If you look at the above then surely some forms of transitioning will have quite the effect on someone's surroundings. Sometimes a haircut is already enough to stir attention. Reactions can be positive, reactions can be negative, and when asked about it it's best just to be plain honest which can be broken down to a simple; 'I want to look the way I feel'.

In my personal opinion, an androgyne transition (to androgynous) doesn't involve 'passing' (with the exception of perhaps bigendered androgynes who care to pass in both their female and male form). Hence there will always be confusion, and perception wise: people will always see what they want to see (family and friends included).

okay, maybe the word ich chose is wrong (disorder) but does it really describe a gender identity or is it just an illusion? it is difficult for me to understand that there is more than only male and female, although i feel like i am an androgyn  this is pretty confusing.

@ nicky: you are not a mtf? but you take hormones? i am sorry if this question is to private.

i think if i would be quite difficult to tell people that you are androgyn, because they wouldn't understand it. if you tell them that you are ftm they would understand the term even if they don't want to understand that you are what you are. because they know that someone who is ftm wants to be female instead of being male, but who beliefs you when you tell them "oh i feel like i have no gender".
do you understand my opposition?
how is it possible to feel this way?

Quote from: lucaluca on February 01, 2010, 09:39:37 AM
okay, maybe the word ich chose is wrong (disorder) but does it really describe a gender identity or is it just an illusion? it is difficult for me to understand that there is more than only male and female[...]

Is it delussional to think you do not fit a box? It's an interesting question.
However, the opinion of a majority is capable of creating another box, although an uncoventional one - in this case an 'Androgyne box'. Frankly, there are people who feel so strongly that they are neither female or male (behaviour wise and in some cases physically). It's a simple 'what isn't right, must be wrong' which is also somewhat a form of black/white thinking that doesn't differ much from the binary concept (: there is only male and female). That can make you wonder if putting only a 'female' and a 'male' box there from the start wasn't delussional to begin with.

Quotei think if i would be quite difficult to tell people that you are androgyn, because they wouldn't understand it. if you tell them that you are ftm they would understand the term even if they don't want to understand that you are what you are. because they know that someone who is ftm wants to be female instead of being male, but who beliefs you when you tell them "oh i feel like i have no gender".

I find that often the hardest part is to explain how sex does not equal gender: that they're two seperate things (mental/physical). To explain androgyny differs in each individual case since experiences differ. After all, not all androgynes feel a need to modify their physical appearances. However, some of the questions you could pose is; 'If someone who has a female body wishes to have their breasts removed what does that make them?' if the answer is 'ftm' then you could add 'But what if this person has no desire at all to have a penis?' or 'What if a male bodied wishes to have breasts, what does that make them', 'mtf', 'But what if this person has no desire to have their penis removed or to have a vagina?'.

Of course it's hard for people to think outside of these kind of boxes, and there's really no easy way to do it. Some will be able to understand, some never will.

Quotehow is it possible to feel this way?

I'm afraid that's not a question I can answer. It's one of those 'it's just the way it is' things I suppose, created by experience, life, reflection, and a sense of self. Throughout our lives we create our own frames of reference and take parts from others. There will always be things to apply to yourself and things that don't - and yes, that includes those that are gender related.


Ps. I have a feeling you might be German?

@ no_id
thanks for the answers. i especial like this one "Of course it's hard for people to think outside of these kind of boxes, and there's really no easy way to do it. Some will be able to understand, some never will."
why do you have the feeling that i am german?

Quote from: lucaluca on February 01, 2010, 12:47:14 PM
@ no_id
thanks for the answers. i especial like this one "Of course it's hard for people to think outside of these kind of boxes, and there's really no easy way to do it. Some will be able to understand, some never will."
why do you have the feeling that i am german?

You're welcome, always feel free to ask questions. My answers might not suffice, but maybe those of others will.

Quoteokay, maybe the word ich chose is wrong (disorder) but does it really describe a gender identity or

You used 'ich', hence my link to German.

hahaha  you are right

Quote from: lucaluca on February 01, 2010, 09:39:37 AM
@ nicky: you are not a mtf? but you take hormones? i am sorry if this question is to private.

Not private at all. When I started hormones I did not consider myself female. I've identified as non-binary gendered for a long time and I only take an antiandrogen. But lately I have been thinking that perhaps I am a transgirl.

Ok. Lets see if I can quantify myself as a way of example. (which...by NO means am I a good example of anyone but myself. Androgyns are quite the diverse group. As....any group is.)

I am a natal woman. Meaning I was born girl with all parts working and accounted for.

I identitfy as not quite woman, but definitly not quite man. The conundrum comes up when I try to figure out if I'm a fem boi, or a masculine girl. While it doesn't really matter in conversation, it matters quite a lot in terms of what I might DO to feel comfortable in my skin.

I have large breasts. They bother me. Not because they're breasts, but because they're large. So I'd like a reduction. However I consider this reduction to be gender based surgery. (for me.)

I'm also considering a low dose of testosterone so that my brain can feel more like my mind. I've not yet decided on that one...but I do believe I'll be doing a short run of hormones to at the very least...rule it out...or in.

I'm an Androgyne I have a beard & I'm on Hormones and wear female tops and unisex pants mostly with a padded bra.  I know I look strange and often hear people laughing at me I don't mind I'm glad to be bringing joy to others just by being me