There talking about GB not the USA, there is no separation of church and state there, in fact, the exact opposite.

Quote from: Kristi on February 04, 2010, 07:26:46 AMThe church is your neighbor, your co-worker, your boss, your subordinate, your banker, your garbage collector.....   

No, they are the church members.  The church is the RCC or the LDS, the ones in control of the money, who often use it to influence elections and the passing or blockage of laws.  They are the ones who tell their members how to vote (and sometimes use fear mongering to do so). 

Just like Microsoft is not the programmers but Bill Gates, the church is the people at the top who make the decisions.  And if they make decisions to get involved in the political process and the passage of laws then they should lose their tax exempt status and be subject to the same rules and regulations as everyone else.

Of course I'm referring to the US here but I'm sure the UK would feel much the same way.

Quote from: Julie Marie on February 04, 2010, 08:23:17 PM
No, they are the church members.   

Ummm, no!  A common misconception.  But I do agree that the organization should not be allowed to interfere in the political arena. 

At the very least they ought to be forbidden (as everyone, including corporations) from crossing state lines with money for local issues.

The religious groups in the UK tend to be viewed as representing sections of society.

Formally, of course, they were part of the business of government. The CofE especially and the CofS in Scotland were not only consulted, they also proposed. This is more or less changed now. The upper house, The Lords, has very little power left.

But all of the major religious groups are and will be consulted and when they complain, their voices are heard, even if their opinions might be ignored.

The princpal groups in the UK, but especially England now are the CofE, the Roman Catholics, Judaism and Islam. Islam is generally, though not exclusively, represented through its Muslim parliment which is akin to the Synods of the two main Christian groups. Judiasim is generally represented through Board of Deputies.

Fro what I can see, the religious groups in the US have taken on a psuedo political role. Seeking to impose their values onto society as a whole.

That many claim to be supporting demoncracy suggests they are either really ignorant and stupid or that their agenda is considerably more sinister than many assume.

The fundimental principal of democracy is that society is never governed according to dogma. But rather by conscent accoding to local needs.

Any policeman will tell you that the difference between policing and military rule is that policing is by conscent. One policeman can maintain the peace in a community of thousands simply because the people agree to be policed.

Nothing 'pusdo' about the way many religious groups function here, they are flat-out political entities. 

kristi, as a Libertarian  and a hated one at that , I have stated publicly and shall do again : Government has no place in peoples bedroooms , private lives , or religion ! Ellen

tekla and ativan.

Thank you for your responses. I was using my words somewhat carefully, I have caught the ire of some Americans before, but I do take your point.

I have to say that, while most of the principals of the founding fathers were good and just, they seem to have been part of their time.

Sadly, the world and society has moved on, but so many in America cling to notions of the intent of the founding fathers.

However, American society does indeed develop and evolve. I believe that, in the long term, TG will be acceptd fully into US and UK society, if only because so many TG people have so much to contribute.

Sadly, like so many social changes that have occured in the past, America may, yet again, need to be carried, kicking and screeming into the modern world.

ativan, it sounds like you need to read up on some history .